Miracle mud or DSB?

Hyperion1337 · 12/20/2011, 09:49 AM

Im setting up my fuge soon and i was wondering if i should use MM or a DSB. What are the pros/cons of each method? I just find MM overpriced period but if the pro's outnumber the pro's of a DSB i'll consider getting it.

Hyperion1337 · 12/20/2011, 05:27 PM

bump. anyone?

tkeracer619 · 12/20/2011, 05:46 PM

Mm is snake sludge. Go with a dsb

Danzig · 12/20/2011, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tkeracer619

Mm is snake sludge. Go with a dsb

What is snake sludge? And what kind of snakes is it from? ive only heard of MM i dont know anything about it

tkeracer619 · 12/20/2011, 08:48 PM

its like snake oil only its dirt instead of oil.

Danzig · 12/20/2011, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tkeracer619

its like snake oil only its dirt instead of oil.

i dont know what snake oil is >.< and so MM is just dirt?

cside · 12/20/2011, 09:16 PM

miracle mud is dirt loaded with a variety of metals which have yet to be proven to have any effect on your livestock. A deep sand bed is a haven and an entire ecosystem for microfauna that can help break down nutrients so long as there is no sand sifter like a sand sifting star. DSBs work only in undisturbed.

cside · 12/20/2011, 09:19 PM

found this on the interwebs "The phrase snake oil is as a derogatory term used to describe quackery, the promotion of fraudulent or unproven medical practices. The expression is also applied metaphorically to any product with questionable and/or unverifiable quality or benefit. By extension, the term "snake oil salesman" may be applied to someone who sells fraudulent goods, or who is a fraud himself.
The phrase originates with a topical preparation made from the Chinese Water Snake (Enhydris chinensis) used by Chinese labourers to treat joint pain. The preparation was promoted in North America by travelling salesmen who often used accomplices in the audience to proclaim the benefits of the preparation." never heard the term myself but am assuming this is what the poster was reffering to.

cside · 12/20/2011, 09:20 PM

double

md ca · 12/20/2011, 09:23 PM

I invested in miracle mud and have seen no benefit. I will not replenish it. Just my experience.

Danzig · 12/20/2011, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cside

found this on the interwebs "The phrase snake oil is as a derogatory term used to describe quackery, the promotion of fraudulent or unproven medical practices. The expression is also applied metaphorically to any product with questionable and/or unverifiable quality or benefit. By extension, the term "snake oil salesman" may be applied to someone who sells fraudulent goods, or who is a fraud himself.
The phrase originates with a topical preparation made from the Chinese Water Snake (Enhydris chinensis) used by Chinese labourers to treat joint pain. The preparation was promoted in North America by travelling salesmen who often used accomplices in the audience to proclaim the benefits of the preparation." never heard the term myself but am assuming this is what the poster was reffering to.

Thank you very much!

tkeracer619 · 12/20/2011, 10:52 PM

That is correct

There are many products advertised for marine tanks that fit the category.

People want their tanks to be healthy and trouble free. I find it despicable when people or companies abuse this to make a buck.

atreis · 12/21/2011, 06:32 AM

DSB using aragonite sand, and placed in a location where you can leave it sit without disturbing it. MM is largely silica sand which contains sharp edges that damage sensitive animals. There are no documented independent studies showing greater benefits from MM. Additionally, a DSB costs less.

rogermccray · 12/21/2011, 09:22 AM

Is finer sand a better choice for a DSB?

atreis · 12/21/2011, 10:49 AM

Yes, the finer the better for a DSB. Just be careful with flow so that it won't get blown around. If it's in a segment of a sump, this is generally not a problem. (It can be tough to have a suger-fine sand DSB in the display tank though.)

newtank · 12/21/2011, 11:46 AM

This is just my opinion, I have seen countless setups that used DSB's loved it for a while, then had problems and took them out. No doubt they help facilitate the nitrogen cycle if done right, ie various grades of sand for X thickness in layers, the correct size and depth, flow rate, and organisms. etc...just do the research, set it up off line, so that if / when you do see it run its course then taking it out is less disruptive.

rogermccray · 12/21/2011, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atreis

Yes, the finer the better for a DSB. Just be careful with flow so that it won't get blown around. If it's in a segment of a sump, this is generally not a problem. (It can be tough to have a suger-fine sand DSB in the display tank though.)

Thanks, I am thinking of DSB in my sump, not sure how much good it would do though. My tank is 215 gallons and only a small portion of the 55 gallon sump will have the DSB. Maybe 2' x 1' section.

(sorry about the thread hijack)

12/20/2011, 09:49 AM	#1
Hyperion1337 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: South Miami Posts: 1,741	Miracle mud or DSB? Im setting up my fuge soon and i was wondering if i should use MM or a DSB. What are the pros/cons of each method? I just find MM overpriced period but if the pro's outnumber the pro's of a DSB i'll consider getting it.

12/20/2011, 05:46 PM	#3
tkeracer619 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Westminster, CO Posts: 17,289	Mm is snake sludge. Go with a dsb __________________ Hobby Experience: 9200ish gallons, 26 skimmers, and a handful of Kent Scrapers. Current Tank: Vortech Powered 600G SPS Tank w/ 100gal frag tank & 100g Sump. RK2-RK10 Skimmer. ReefAngel. Radium 20k.

12/20/2011, 08:48 PM	#5
tkeracer619 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Westminster, CO Posts: 17,289	its like snake oil only its dirt instead of oil. __________________ Hobby Experience: 9200ish gallons, 26 skimmers, and a handful of Kent Scrapers. Current Tank: Vortech Powered 600G SPS Tank w/ 100gal frag tank & 100g Sump. RK2-RK10 Skimmer. ReefAngel. Radium 20k.

12/20/2011, 10:52 PM	#12
tkeracer619 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Westminster, CO Posts: 17,289	That is correct There are many products advertised for marine tanks that fit the category. People want their tanks to be healthy and trouble free. I find it despicable when people or companies abuse this to make a buck. __________________ Hobby Experience: 9200ish gallons, 26 skimmers, and a handful of Kent Scrapers. Current Tank: Vortech Powered 600G SPS Tank w/ 100gal frag tank & 100g Sump. RK2-RK10 Skimmer. ReefAngel. Radium 20k.

12/21/2011, 06:32 AM	#13
atreis Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Yellow Springs, OH Posts: 942	DSB using aragonite sand, and placed in a location where you can leave it sit without disturbing it. MM is largely silica sand which contains sharp edges that damage sensitive animals. There are no documented independent studies showing greater benefits from MM. Additionally, a DSB costs less. __________________ reef tank up since 8/2009. Previous tank up since 4/2004, taken down in 2007. Current Tank Info: custom 100g reef, custom sump

12/20/2011, 05:27 PM	#2
Hyperion1337 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: South Miami Posts: 1,741	bump. anyone?

12/20/2011, 09:16 PM	#7
cside Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Clearwater, Fl Posts: 384	miracle mud is dirt loaded with a variety of metals which have yet to be proven to have any effect on your livestock. A deep sand bed is a haven and an entire ecosystem for microfauna that can help break down nutrients so long as there is no sand sifter like a sand sifting star. DSBs work only in undisturbed.

12/20/2011, 09:19 PM	#8
cside Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Clearwater, Fl Posts: 384	found this on the interwebs "The phrase snake oil is as a derogatory term used to describe quackery, the promotion of fraudulent or unproven medical practices. The expression is also applied metaphorically to any product with questionable and/or unverifiable quality or benefit. By extension, the term "snake oil salesman" may be applied to someone who sells fraudulent goods, or who is a fraud himself. The phrase originates with a topical preparation made from the Chinese Water Snake (Enhydris chinensis) used by Chinese labourers to treat joint pain. The preparation was promoted in North America by travelling salesmen who often used accomplices in the audience to proclaim the benefits of the preparation." never heard the term myself but am assuming this is what the poster was reffering to.

12/20/2011, 09:20 PM	#9
cside Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Clearwater, Fl Posts: 384	double

12/20/2011, 09:23 PM	#10
md ca Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: California Posts: 126	I invested in miracle mud and have seen no benefit. I will not replenish it. Just my experience.

12/21/2011, 09:22 AM	#14
rogermccray Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 1,050	Is finer sand a better choice for a DSB?

12/21/2011, 10:49 AM	#15
atreis Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Yellow Springs, OH Posts: 942	Yes, the finer the better for a DSB. Just be careful with flow so that it won't get blown around. If it's in a segment of a sump, this is generally not a problem. (It can be tough to have a suger-fine sand DSB in the display tank though.) __________________ reef tank up since 8/2009. Previous tank up since 4/2004, taken down in 2007. Current Tank Info: custom 100g reef, custom sump

12/21/2011, 11:46 AM	#16
newtank Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Peru In Posts: 319	This is just my opinion, I have seen countless setups that used DSB's loved it for a while, then had problems and took them out. No doubt they help facilitate the nitrogen cycle if done right, ie various grades of sand for X thickness in layers, the correct size and depth, flow rate, and organisms. etc...just do the research, set it up off line, so that if / when you do see it run its course then taking it out is less disruptive. __________________ Just because you can... doesn't mean you should. Current Tank Info: Newest new tank- 300G DEEP

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