440 Gallon Custom Drop-Off Reef Tank

[fjr_wertheimber]

Okay, so I recently posted here about the custom DIY plywood/Starphire reef tank that my better half agreed to let me build, inspired by this tank here:

That inspiration lead to this design here, which I planned to construct out of plywood and Starphire glass:


Well, anyway, earlier today I was laying out the size of the tank in what will eventually be the fish room, and Wendy (my better half) says, "You know, it just seems like it's missing something. Have you thought about making it longer, or L-shaped?". Yes, folks, I've got the Holy Grail of "fish wives", one who not only puts up with me wanting to go bigger with my tank, but one who actively suggests it!!

So, after playing around with a few different redesigns, I've kind of rejected the L-shaped tank for the way it fit in the room, and decided to instead widen and lengthen the tank, so that now we're looking at the following design:




The theme/idea is still a reef drop off, but widened to 48 inches in width, dropped an inch to 35" in height (at the deep portion) to fit through the front door, and lengthened to 7' of tank swimming space. The deeper portion of the drop off is 48"w X 35"h X 36"l, and the shallow portion is 48"w X 17"h X 48"l, for a total volume of about 440 gallons in the main tank. I'm looking to use the large amount of real estate below the tank for a large sump, refugium, frag tank, and a couple of quarantine tanks.

Right now, I'm looking at having the stand and structural portions of the tank made out of 2" squared steel, with 1.5" steel L-angle iron for the portions that the glass will butt up against, sealed with silicone against the steel and sealed on the inside of the glass, as well. I'm looking to use 3/4" low iron glass for all viewable panes, and 3/4" regular glass for all non-viewing portions of the tank. The steel will all be powder coated gloss black, and I'm looking to have a custom stand cover made in a gloss piano black-type finish. I've even thought of going with a metallic black automotive finish for the stand/canopy. I saw one guy here on RC that had his tank done with an automotive white finish and it was BEAUTIFUL.

Suffice to say, Wendy will have final say on 99% of all this, since (as they say) "If mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy", but so far it sounds like she's pretty happy about the whole thing, and so am I!

Right now for flow I'm planning on using 2x MP60s on the upper portion, and 2x MP40s on the lower portion. I haven't decided on a return pump(s) or a skimmer, so if anyone has any suggestions on ones for a tank of this size, let me know. I've honestly never thought I'd be getting/building/having built a tank this size, so haven't done too much research for equipment for one of this size.

Lighting will be LEDs, a full custom build, designed to mimic sunrise/sunset and the travels of the sun across the sky, casting shadows along the long axis of the tank. I had a decent beginning of a design, but now that Wendy gave me the thumbs up for a larger tank, I've got to go back to the drawing board. I'll post design sketches for the lighting here shortly.

So, with all that being said, anyone have any thoughts, ideas, comments, or suggestions on what I've posted so far? See anything I've missed, or any ways to improve the design so far? Anything I've gotten wrong? Any issues with using a steel frame like I've designed it?

Thanks in advance for all your comments and suggestions, and wish me luck as we begin the (OMG unbelievably long) build and design process. I just want to hurry up and get it built and wet, dammit! LOL

[ecupcar]

Love the idea, i saw that same tank and am very inspired. Good luck, I will be tagging along.

[Chimone]

I love drop offs. Tagging along

[fjr_wertheimber]

Thanks, guys. I think it should be pretty awesome, when all's said and done.

[larrybeck]

Your wife has it right - the increased size will definitely make this go from "wow!" to "WOWWW!".

[fjr_wertheimber]

What do you guys think of the Royal-Exclusiv Alpha 300 Cone or the Super Reef Octopus XP 8000 Internal Cone for a tank of this size, considering a pretty heavy bioload, large amounts of SPS, and multiple anemones? Any other suggestions, skimmer-wise?

EDIT: Okay, so looks like the SRO XP 8000 might be out of the running, because it needs 36.5", and I've got 35" under my stand. So much for that idea. What do y'all think of the Alpha 300 for a tank this size?

[ZOKU]

Good God... *TAGGED!*

[Bello]

Looking good!!

Think the Alpha 300 should be good for this tank, I have a 200, and they're great skimmers.

How are you building the tank? Single sheets on the sides or glued together like Grosjean?

Circulation plans sound, and should work well. I'm assuming the mp40's would be placed on the dropoff facing the front of the tank?

[apuhl20]

Any chance you have a basement under your tank? It would be alot better than trying to get everything under the tank. And you could make the tank super quiet that way.

[fjr_wertheimber]

Hey Aphul20, nope, no basement. And really, for the sheer amount of weight this thing will entail, I'm glad I won't have to deal with that. Nope, just plain ol' concrete slab. And really, with 4' x 8' x 3' to play with, I don't forsee many problems fitting 99% of what I want (short of the RODI unit and water making station) underneath it.

Actually, I just realized I'm a moron. The XP-8000 is NOT out of the running. I had a brain fart and forgot I can just cut out the ply between the tank and stand, so that I have a nice big 48"+ to play with, so yeah, a nice big monster skimmer will fit with room to spare. So, updated here:




Bello, it's going to be single sheets, with the cutout cut on a CNC waterjet for accuracy. We're actually going to use the cutouts to make a low-iron glass tank for Wendy, either seahorses or anemones/clowns. Grosjean used acrylic, I'll be using low-iron glass. I'm just not a big fan of acrylic, mainly because scratches drive me nuts. LOL Oh, and yup, you've got it right. The MP60s will be on the upright portion below the overflow, and the MP40s will be on the upright portion of the dropoff.

Any suggestions for return pumps, preferably the lower the wattage the better? I'll be running a BeanAnimal-style overflow with 2" PVC, so I don't forsee any issues with large turnover rates.

[fjr_wertheimber]

Do you guys think an Alpha 300 would be enough skimmer? Total water volume for the system could easily exceed 600 gallons, after all...

[apuhl20]

I run a SRO 3000 ext on my 300 gallon system and love it. If I had to go with it again I would do an in sump but still use the SRO as I have found with all Reef Octopus things you have to silicone the seals to make sure they don't leak. But I love the Octopus stuff and the SRO Skimmers are awesome.

Plus by going with an insump, it is one less pump outside the water and it will be quieter. The water helps muffle the water and I am all about keeping the tank as quiet as possible.

[fjr_wertheimber]

Yeah, I'm definitely going with an in-sump skimmer and return pump. I just worry too much about leaks with external stuff.

[Bello]

As far as in-tank circulation is concerned, you're good to go. Should be awesome!

The scariest thing about a drop off tank, is ensuring that the shallow and deep bases are perfectly flat, and the connecting glass is perfectly aligned. If you're off by too much, it could be bad when you fill it up. I set up a drop off, 1/10th the size of your tank, and I learned the hard way

Have you considered the Octopus HY7000 water blaster pumps for returns? I hope to pick up one for my 250g soon.

In case you haven't seen it, there's also a NPS drop off tank by Mariusz, pretty cool.

Good luck with it!!! Will be watching this one closely

[fjr_wertheimber]

Hey Bello, I just looked through your thread... Good looking tank, man!

Yeah, I was worried about getting that perfect alignment, that's actually why I'm going with a metal frame, because the integral seal will be the glass/metal silicone seal, rather than the glass/glass seal silicone, which will be a secondary level of integrity and a safeguard against leaks from the primary seal, and will allow a bit more leeway for alignment.

Yeah, I've been thinking about the Octopus HY pumps, in fact, I was debating on the 7000, 10000, or 16000 (~drool~).

Thanks for the heads up and tips, I'll definitely be picking your brain as time goes on!

[fjr_wertheimber]

Sorry, deleted a duplicate post.

[Bello]

Originally Posted by fjr_wertheimber

Yeah, I was worried about getting that perfect alignment, that's actually why I'm going with a metal frame, because the integral seal will be the glass/metal silicone seal, rather than the glass/glass seal silicone, which will be a secondary level of integrity and a safeguard against leaks from the primary seal, and will allow a bit more leeway for alignment.

You've definitely thought this through..... a hell of a lot more than I did , can't wait to see!!..... and the idea of a big and wide drop off, soooo many aquascaping options.....

My 2 cents on the returns.... I'd rather you'd pick 2 x HY-7000's for redundancy.

[fjr_wertheimber]

Originally Posted by Bello

You've definitely thought this through..... a hell of a lot more than I did , can't wait to see!!..... and the idea of a big and wide drop off, soooo many aquascaping options.....

My 2 cents on the returns.... I'd rather you'd pick 2 x HY-7000's for redundancy.

Yeah, I'm really excited about the dimensions of the tank. As I said, it was my better half that had the idea of extending and widening the tank, and I think it really made a huge overall difference with the look and feel of the tank, and wow, talk about a lot of aquascaping room! LOL

I'm with you on the dual HY7000s, I'm kind of leaning to exactly that setup. I've just heard so many good things about them and the Bubble Blasters. I actually want one of the XP-5000 or XP-8000 mainly based on their pumps, but I'm just not a huge fan of the design of the skimmer themselves. They seem a bit cheap compared to, say, an ATB Deluxe 10.5 Cone which is only ~$250 more and seems a much sturdier, well designed and built product. Of course, at that point, do you just scrap together another $150 and get a Royal Exclusiv Alpha 300? I don't know, I go back and forth on the whole skimmer idea each day.

Going back to the aquascaping idea, the plan is to build up a central ridgeline down the center of the tank, with a scallop on each side of the long axis of the tank for a bommie that goes up almost to the top of the tank, an overhang over the drop off for some NPS corals (and hiding spot for fish), and then continuing the ridgeline down to the bottom of the tank, with two more bommies of the corners of the deep portion. I'm going to use a wet tile saw to cut some dry rock and silicone it in place on the edge of the drop off to create the overhang, as well as to hold the sand on the upper level of the tank. I wish there was an easier way to create organic-type shapes in SketchUp, I'd show you what I'm talking about more easily with a diagram.

[Chuongj510]

Wow looks like you have a great plan. First time I seen a drop off tank. Looks really nice. Good luck with the build.

[fjr_wertheimber]

Thanks, Chuongj510.

Okay, so here's the basic plan for the aquascaping. It's obviously not quite how I plan to have it look, but then SketchUp isn't really setup well for organic shapes, but at least it'll give you a basic idea of the overall feel.

[Trademark]

The top down sketch is awesome. I love the way this is going to look

[dahenley]

looks sweet

[fjr_wertheimber]

Thanks, guys!

[Last Version]

Perfect!... Your color very nice color!

[CyclistMT]

fjr, this is going to be pretty cool especially with the extra width!

Here's my $0.02, you can take it or leave it since it's not worth much these days anyway , but I would lose all the pillars in the tank. The bommie on top will look much better with more open space and the two big pillars on the bottom immediately draw the eye to them. From an aesthetic point of view, if I'm looking at the bottom portion, I want my eye to be drawn deeper into the tank and eventually up to the top. With the large pillars in there, I can't really "see" beyond them.

Aquascaping a 3 side viewable tank is a challenge. Often what looks good in one direction doesn't work from another. You're on the right track though and with just a few tweaks I think you'll really dial it in.