I Spy....?

Psychotrshman · 05/02/2012, 10:31 AM

Good afternoon everyone,

I hope everyone is doing well today. I took these pictures a few months ago at a hospital in Columbus, Indiana while I was there for my Mother-In-Law. (She's doing okay now.) I was wondering if anyone out there can tell me what kind of coral these are and how difficult they are to keep?

The guy caring for the tank couldn't tell me anything other than the tank size, 290g. They are some of the most colorful specimens I've seen, but I only have a 30g tank that I could use for saltwater. I've never kept coral before, but I'm always open for a challenge and I love to do research.

tebstan · 05/02/2012, 12:24 PM

First pic is a trumpet coral, sometimes called a candy cane coral.

Second pic, I'm not sure what is in the center, but that's mushrooms to the right and most likely xenia of some variety on the left.

Third pic is a giant hairy mushroom - I love those. They come in a few various colors.

Fourth pic is green star polyps trying to grow through some mushrooms and xenia.

Fifth pic is a yellow sponge - cool hitch hiker that often grows on its own. That's common button polyps around it.

Looks like everything in these pics is easy to care for, and cheap to purchase or trade for if you're just starting out.

If you're thinking of starting a SW tank, do lots of research first. But don't be intimidated! It's a lot to learn, but SO worth it. Knowing you want corals before shopping is helpful, to save you some money on upgrades later.

Psychotrshman · 05/02/2012, 12:31 PM

Thanks for the id's! I've been doing research for about a year now to make sure I'm prepared. I have some shop skills, so I can DIY a lot of parts myself. Although drilling the tank scares me. :-) What/how do you feed corals?

tebstan · 05/02/2012, 12:39 PM

Well that is a loaded question!

Some people don't feed their corals. They are photosynthetic (most of them). I, however, love to feed things! I feed a lot - different varieties, and frequently. I also have to keep up on my water quality by testing and doing water changes. Having a bio pellet reactor is a huge help.

Some corals will do well with target feeding - put appropriate sized food right on the mouth. Some are filter feeders, and just pouring food in the tank is enough to ensure they'll take up what they need. There are a lot of powder foods on the market suitable for filter feeders and corals with tiny mouths.

Psychotrshman · 05/02/2012, 12:46 PM

In this house everything eats at least once a day. Hahaha. We had a turtle that was supposed to be fed once a week, and top out at a 6" shell. We had to find her a new home after 8months because her shell was at 14" and she was still growing. Turns out my wife had been giving her three meals a day because she felt bad eating in front of her. :-) Is a bio ball reactor a phosban reactor? What do they do?

tebstan · 05/02/2012, 12:52 PM

Bio balls provide surface area for bacteria to grow - they usually come with some commercial sumps. Some people really don't like them, some people use them with no problems. My sump came with them, so I used them. I rinse them in old tank water once in a while, and haven't had any problems. But, if I was starting over, I probably wouldn't bother with them - they're just one more thing to clean.

Bio Pellets are different. They are a carbon based pellet that provides food and surface area for bacteria. Place them in a reactor with a good pump, and they can help with nitrate control. I have a cheap inefficient reactor, and I still have 0 nitrates with heavy feeding. I do water changes to maintain other elements, but the pellet reactor could keep the nitrates at 0 for months.

A phosban reactor is filled with media specifically to reduce phosphates, which lead to algae growth. SPS keepers are big fans of these. I don't have one, I haven't needed one, but I don't keep an ultra-low-nutrient system.

Psychotrshman · 05/02/2012, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tebstan

A phosban reactor is filled with media specifically to reduce phosphates, which lead to algae growth. SPS keepers are big fans of these. I don't have one, I haven't needed one, but I don't keep an ultra-low-nutrient system.

What is the difference between SPS and LPS?

tebstan · 05/02/2012, 01:12 PM

The size of the mouth.

SPS = Small Polyp Stony coral

LPS = Large Polyp Stony coral

There are a few corals that look like LPS but are considered SPS. Someone explained to me that even though the polyp is large, the mouth is small. Most are pretty obvious though.

(If they don't have a hard skeleton, they're a soft coral)

Large Polyp:

Small Polyp:

Reef Dweller · 05/02/2012, 01:23 PM

Yea, keep looking as there are WAY more colorful things that what you have pictured.

Also, remember. Most if not all (%85) corals look brown in 10k spectrum which is around sunlight spectrum. To get a good green out of the above pic with that coral, you need a 15k/20k light spectrum. Maybe even a 50% 10k and 50% actinic mix will pop the green too. This also goes for some reds, oranges, blues etc. Each corals mileage will vary so make sure once you pic a pretty color you know what light it is being shown under along with the name of it.

tebstan · 05/02/2012, 01:29 PM

Very good point. Light spectrum... that's a whole research project in itself. I like a white look, but my corals don't "pop." So I'm going to suck it up and go with more blue in my bulbs. LED moonlights are awesome to get views like that SPS I linked to.

Reef Dweller · 05/02/2012, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tebstan

Light spectrum... that's a whole research project in itself.

Yea, I will say. I didnt want to say it because its gonna make the whole process that much harder, but, its the next important thing you have to keep in mind,

I have a few supposidly colorful things in my tank that are in the window, grow like weeds in the sunlight, but my tank looks like a mud pit. No color what so ever

.

Psychotrshman · 05/02/2012, 01:44 PM

Light requirement is my current research project. I'm trying to wrap my head around all this LED talk.

What is a moonlight?

Tebstan: what is that small polyp you linked to called? That is absolutely amazing!

tebstan · 05/02/2012, 01:53 PM

It's birds nest, a rather common SPS that is one of the "easier" ones to grow. I still couldn't grow it! My lights and tank are not SPS suitable. I'm upgrading from retro fit T5 bulbs to some metal halides with T5 actinic, but I still don't think my tank will grow SPS.

Tanks that are dominant SPS tend to see slow growth in LPS and softies. Likewise, softy tanks don't do well with SPS. Not to say they can't be mixed, but one will type will usually do better than the other.

Moonlights are usually LED, small spotlights that come on after the other lights have powered down for the day. A blue LED spot lighting a dark tank will show off fluorescing coral nicely, like in that pic of birds nest above.

xCry0x · 05/02/2012, 02:19 PM

The difference in corals took me a while to figure out but as the above poster said..

SPS, LPS, Softies are the 3 main categories..

SPS and LPS are hard corals and have a hard calcium skeleton, softies are soft corals and as the name suggests are soft.

SPS and LPS are hard corals because they will have some part of them consist of a calcium skeleton.

Polyps refer to the soft/fleshy part of a coral. LPS are large polyp stony corals which means they have a stony/hard skeleton but have large soft fleshy pieces. SPS are small polyp stony corals so they have a stony/hard skeleton and small fleshy pieces. SO basically if you see a coral with a hard base and big soft polyps it is probably an LPS - if you see a coral that looks like a stick with little tiny polyps it is probably an SPS.

Those pictures are perfect examples, the top is an Acan which will have a hard calcium base but big soft colorful 'heads'. They are probably one of my two favorite corals because you can feed each of those heads kind of like a venus fly trap. At night they will have little translucent tentacles extend out and if you put food such as mysis or brine shrimp on the heads they will latch on and pull the food in.

The bottom is a birdsnest, the dark color area is the skeleton and each of the little flourescent circles are the small polyps - you can see how small each is compared to the large heads/polyps on the acan. SPS are typically filter feeders/highly photosynthetic. They require pristine water and high light/water flow to maintain. If everything is not perfect all the polyps will retract in and the thing will look like an ugly brown stick (that is what my SPS currently looks like - it is frustrating).

The last type of coral are the softies - they are basically all soft and fleshy. This category contains leathers, mushrooms, palys & zoas. They are all very popular because of the ease of care. You can have relatively low light and poor quality water and they will grow like crazy. Better lights & better water quality will make them more colorful though. There are tons of different types of palys & zoas and collecting them can be very addicting because you will always find different color combos and the corals themselves are fairly small but grow in colonies.

tebstan · 05/02/2012, 03:00 PM

Much better description! I didn't even think to explain what the polyps themselves were

About SPS... yes most of them look like sticks. I'm not a big fan, all the sticks look the same to me. Maybe that's because they don't have good polyp extension for me, so all I see is the skeleton! Not all SPS are stick like though.

The only SPS I seem to like are the non-stick ones. These are montipora:

There are other non-stick SPS but I can't think of them right now...

Psychotrshman · 05/02/2012, 03:11 PM

Just to make sure I'm understanding the lightning importance: without the right lighting the corals will have limited color and won't grow? So with coral, lighting is right up there with filtration and water quality?

What happens if coral gets too large or starts to overtake the entire tank? Is that when fragging is done? Could that harm/kill the coral?

tebstan · 05/02/2012, 03:15 PM

Lighting may be more important than water quality. An SPS will grow in slightly dirty water, it will just be ugly and may grow slow. Without light, they won't grow at all.

Excess nutrients in the water tend to make delicate corals turn brown. I bought a lovely purple montipora that turned a lovely shade of brown, but continued to grow.

Fragging can be easy or hard, depending on the species. SPS are easy, just snap a piece off and use some super glue to affix it to some rock. Soft corals like zoas and leathers can be sliced with a clean blade. Mushrooms are tricky though, because they emit a slime when you're poking at them. LPS can be difficult to frag sometimes, requiring a saw.

anbosu · 05/02/2012, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psychotrshman

Just to make sure I'm understanding the lightning importance: without the right lighting the corals will have limited color and won't grow? So with coral, lighting is right up there with filtration and water quality?

Yes, quality lighting is just as important for most corals.

What happens if coral gets too large or starts to overtake the entire tank? Is that when fragging is done? Could that harm/kill the coral?

Yes, that is when you would want to frag it, and yes it could kill or harm the coral. Normally not a huge issue though if you follow the right steps. You probably won't have to worry about that for a while if you're just starting out.

Psychotrshman · 05/05/2012, 05:52 PM

I just wanted to thank everyone for the great information. Is there any one who can identify the center coral in the second picture from the left and whether it's soft, SPS, or LPS? I'd love to have one and if need be I'd design my tanks parameters around it. Haha. It was just really neat seeing it sitting there in the middle like it was powering the whole reef.

05/02/2012, 12:24 PM	#2
tebstan Registered Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 961	First pic is a trumpet coral, sometimes called a candy cane coral. Second pic, I'm not sure what is in the center, but that's mushrooms to the right and most likely xenia of some variety on the left. Third pic is a giant hairy mushroom - I love those. They come in a few various colors. Fourth pic is green star polyps trying to grow through some mushrooms and xenia. Fifth pic is a yellow sponge - cool hitch hiker that often grows on its own. That's common button polyps around it. Looks like everything in these pics is easy to care for, and cheap to purchase or trade for if you're just starting out. If you're thinking of starting a SW tank, do lots of research first. But don't be intimidated! It's a lot to learn, but SO worth it. Knowing you want corals before shopping is helpful, to save you some money on upgrades later. __________________ Washington's Rule #110: Labor to keep alive in your breast that little spark of celestial fire called conscience.

05/02/2012, 12:39 PM	#4
tebstan Registered Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 961	Well that is a loaded question! Some people don't feed their corals. They are photosynthetic (most of them). I, however, love to feed things! I feed a lot - different varieties, and frequently. I also have to keep up on my water quality by testing and doing water changes. Having a bio pellet reactor is a huge help. Some corals will do well with target feeding - put appropriate sized food right on the mouth. Some are filter feeders, and just pouring food in the tank is enough to ensure they'll take up what they need. There are a lot of powder foods on the market suitable for filter feeders and corals with tiny mouths. __________________ Washington's Rule #110: Labor to keep alive in your breast that little spark of celestial fire called conscience.

05/02/2012, 12:52 PM	#6
tebstan Registered Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 961	Bio balls provide surface area for bacteria to grow - they usually come with some commercial sumps. Some people really don't like them, some people use them with no problems. My sump came with them, so I used them. I rinse them in old tank water once in a while, and haven't had any problems. But, if I was starting over, I probably wouldn't bother with them - they're just one more thing to clean. Bio Pellets are different. They are a carbon based pellet that provides food and surface area for bacteria. Place them in a reactor with a good pump, and they can help with nitrate control. I have a cheap inefficient reactor, and I still have 0 nitrates with heavy feeding. I do water changes to maintain other elements, but the pellet reactor could keep the nitrates at 0 for months. A phosban reactor is filled with media specifically to reduce phosphates, which lead to algae growth. SPS keepers are big fans of these. I don't have one, I haven't needed one, but I don't keep an ultra-low-nutrient system. __________________ Washington's Rule #110: Labor to keep alive in your breast that little spark of celestial fire called conscience.

05/02/2012, 01:12 PM	#8
tebstan Registered Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 961	The size of the mouth. SPS = Small Polyp Stony coral LPS = Large Polyp Stony coral There are a few corals that look like LPS but are considered SPS. Someone explained to me that even though the polyp is large, the mouth is small. Most are pretty obvious though. (If they don't have a hard skeleton, they're a soft coral) Large Polyp: Small Polyp: __________________ Washington's Rule #110: Labor to keep alive in your breast that little spark of celestial fire called conscience.

05/02/2012, 01:29 PM	#10
tebstan Registered Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 961	Very good point. Light spectrum... that's a whole research project in itself. I like a white look, but my corals don't "pop." So I'm going to suck it up and go with more blue in my bulbs. LED moonlights are awesome to get views like that SPS I linked to. __________________ Washington's Rule #110: Labor to keep alive in your breast that little spark of celestial fire called conscience.

05/02/2012, 12:31 PM	#3
Psychotrshman Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 53	Thanks for the id's! I've been doing research for about a year now to make sure I'm prepared. I have some shop skills, so I can DIY a lot of parts myself. Although drilling the tank scares me. :-) What/how do you feed corals?

05/02/2012, 12:46 PM	#5
Psychotrshman Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 53	In this house everything eats at least once a day. Hahaha. We had a turtle that was supposed to be fed once a week, and top out at a 6" shell. We had to find her a new home after 8months because her shell was at 14" and she was still growing. Turns out my wife had been giving her three meals a day because she felt bad eating in front of her. :-) Is a bio ball reactor a phosban reactor? What do they do?

05/02/2012, 01:23 PM	#9
Reef Dweller Moved On Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 2	Yea, keep looking as there are WAY more colorful things that what you have pictured. Also, remember. Most if not all (%85) corals look brown in 10k spectrum which is around sunlight spectrum. To get a good green out of the above pic with that coral, you need a 15k/20k light spectrum. Maybe even a 50% 10k and 50% actinic mix will pop the green too. This also goes for some reds, oranges, blues etc. Each corals mileage will vary so make sure once you pic a pretty color you know what light it is being shown under along with the name of it.

05/02/2012, 01:44 PM	#12
Psychotrshman Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 53	Light requirement is my current research project. I'm trying to wrap my head around all this LED talk. What is a moonlight? Tebstan: what is that small polyp you linked to called? That is absolutely amazing!

05/02/2012, 01:53 PM	#13
tebstan Registered Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 961	It's birds nest, a rather common SPS that is one of the "easier" ones to grow. I still couldn't grow it! My lights and tank are not SPS suitable. I'm upgrading from retro fit T5 bulbs to some metal halides with T5 actinic, but I still don't think my tank will grow SPS. Tanks that are dominant SPS tend to see slow growth in LPS and softies. Likewise, softy tanks don't do well with SPS. Not to say they can't be mixed, but one will type will usually do better than the other. Moonlights are usually LED, small spotlights that come on after the other lights have powered down for the day. A blue LED spot lighting a dark tank will show off fluorescing coral nicely, like in that pic of birds nest above. __________________ Washington's Rule #110: Labor to keep alive in your breast that little spark of celestial fire called conscience.

05/02/2012, 02:19 PM	#14
xCry0x Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Martinez, CA Posts: 1,116	The difference in corals took me a while to figure out but as the above poster said.. SPS, LPS, Softies are the 3 main categories.. SPS and LPS are hard corals and have a hard calcium skeleton, softies are soft corals and as the name suggests are soft. SPS and LPS are hard corals because they will have some part of them consist of a calcium skeleton. Polyps refer to the soft/fleshy part of a coral. LPS are large polyp stony corals which means they have a stony/hard skeleton but have large soft fleshy pieces. SPS are small polyp stony corals so they have a stony/hard skeleton and small fleshy pieces. SO basically if you see a coral with a hard base and big soft polyps it is probably an LPS - if you see a coral that looks like a stick with little tiny polyps it is probably an SPS. Those pictures are perfect examples, the top is an Acan which will have a hard calcium base but big soft colorful 'heads'. They are probably one of my two favorite corals because you can feed each of those heads kind of like a venus fly trap. At night they will have little translucent tentacles extend out and if you put food such as mysis or brine shrimp on the heads they will latch on and pull the food in. The bottom is a birdsnest, the dark color area is the skeleton and each of the little flourescent circles are the small polyps - you can see how small each is compared to the large heads/polyps on the acan. SPS are typically filter feeders/highly photosynthetic. They require pristine water and high light/water flow to maintain. If everything is not perfect all the polyps will retract in and the thing will look like an ugly brown stick (that is what my SPS currently looks like - it is frustrating). The last type of coral are the softies - they are basically all soft and fleshy. This category contains leathers, mushrooms, palys & zoas. They are all very popular because of the ease of care. You can have relatively low light and poor quality water and they will grow like crazy. Better lights & better water quality will make them more colorful though. There are tons of different types of palys & zoas and collecting them can be very addicting because you will always find different color combos and the corals themselves are fairly small but grow in colonies. __________________ Red Sea Max 250

05/02/2012, 03:00 PM	#15
tebstan Registered Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 961	Much better description! I didn't even think to explain what the polyps themselves were About SPS... yes most of them look like sticks. I'm not a big fan, all the sticks look the same to me. Maybe that's because they don't have good polyp extension for me, so all I see is the skeleton! Not all SPS are stick like though. The only SPS I seem to like are the non-stick ones. These are montipora: There are other non-stick SPS but I can't think of them right now... __________________ Washington's Rule #110: Labor to keep alive in your breast that little spark of celestial fire called conscience.

05/02/2012, 03:11 PM	#16
Psychotrshman Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 53	Just to make sure I'm understanding the lightning importance: without the right lighting the corals will have limited color and won't grow? So with coral, lighting is right up there with filtration and water quality? What happens if coral gets too large or starts to overtake the entire tank? Is that when fragging is done? Could that harm/kill the coral?

05/02/2012, 03:15 PM	#17
tebstan Registered Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 961	Lighting may be more important than water quality. An SPS will grow in slightly dirty water, it will just be ugly and may grow slow. Without light, they won't grow at all. Excess nutrients in the water tend to make delicate corals turn brown. I bought a lovely purple montipora that turned a lovely shade of brown, but continued to grow. Fragging can be easy or hard, depending on the species. SPS are easy, just snap a piece off and use some super glue to affix it to some rock. Soft corals like zoas and leathers can be sliced with a clean blade. Mushrooms are tricky though, because they emit a slime when you're poking at them. LPS can be difficult to frag sometimes, requiring a saw. __________________ Washington's Rule #110: Labor to keep alive in your breast that little spark of celestial fire called conscience.

05/05/2012, 05:52 PM	#19
Psychotrshman Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 53	I just wanted to thank everyone for the great information. Is there any one who can identify the center coral in the second picture from the left and whether it's soft, SPS, or LPS? I'd love to have one and if need be I'd design my tanks parameters around it. Haha. It was just really neat seeing it sitting there in the middle like it was powering the whole reef.