New Seahorse "owner" needs help...

[WendyCT]

Hi, my son thought he was giving me the best gift of all for my 50th birthday a week ago and gave me a 10 gallon tank and a seahorse (something I have loved forever and had one day dreamed of "owning"). His intentions were lovely and well meaning but sadly I think he should of researched more and not just followed what the pet shop owner said because I think he was just hoping to sell things..

My son purchased a 10 gallon tank, some colorful pebble rocks for the bottom, a heater, a filter, frozen shrimp food, and the salt water salt. He set the tank up and in a few hours when the saturation was good he dripped into the seahorse "bucket" to acclimate it.

Sadly he did not allow the tank to cylce so that the bacteria (?) and ammonia/ph/etc could get to what they should be..

So I have been struggling with .25-.50 ammonia levels, 7.0 PH levels. I test two times a day. I have made several water changes over the past week (1/3of the tank water). Nothing seems to be working.

I feel horrible that the seahorse (he was told it was a captive bred hippocampus erectus) (spg) and was one of the hardier seahorses to start with. The little guy goes from looking uncomfortable (staying near the bottom of the tank, laying down) to swimming around, and anchoring up-right. He is a very good eater and gotton into the habit of coming to the top area of the tank where I put the food and hanging out in the past day and I'm wondering if he is hungry and knows that food will "appear" there?? I've been feeding him 2 x a day ..

I have also since purchased 2 live rocks, 3 small blue crabs, and have some tigger pods (which I've placed 1/3 of the bottle into the tank yesterday).

Can anyone tell me if there is anyway to get the ammonia level down more?

Also - should I have sand at the bottom of this tank and not small pebbles and seashells?

Is a 10 gallon tank large enough? The pet shop owner said it would do good for 1 or 2 seahorses but everything I am reading says it should be larger..?

It may sound silly but could the seahorse miss the other seahorse he use to be with at the pet store? There was only 2 of them there for the longest time... do they prefer to be social?

Any help would be so greatly appreciated. I want to do everything I can to make this little guy comfortable and happy in his environment and hopefully one day be able to add a 2nd so he is not alone.

Is there anyone out there who lives in CT and might want to share tips and help along this journey?

Thank you in advance to anyone who can take a few moments and help me out.

~Wendy

[WendyCT]

I live in CT and if there is anyone who has an established tank and seahorses who would be willing to take this little guy until I could get an established tank set up I would greatly appreciate it and in no way hold you responsible if anything should happen .. I just want him to be safe and out of danger if at all possible.

Thank you..

[rayjay]

Yes, you DO need a cycled tank, but a ten gallon is not enough for a pair of erectus when recommended size is 30g for one pair, with an additional 15g for each additional pair.
If you don't mind doing some reading, check out the links at the BOTTOM of "My Thoughst on Seahorse Keeping".
The articles have been written by experienced keepers and a commercial breeder of seahorses.
After reading those, you can post any more questions and get more specific answers.
You cannot find all you need to know in just one thread as there is just too much than needs to be included.

[Jaguar]

WendyCT,
You should definitely consider taking the seahorse back to the store temporarily if it is an option. However if it is not I would purchase a product called Amquel or another salt water comparable ammonia neutralizer. Following the correct doses you will be able to neutralize the ammonia and perhaps save the seahorse's life. Otherwise you will poison the poor fish slowly. You might also as an immediate help try to add more live rock to the tank so that there is as much biological filtration available to help break down the ammonia.

There are other factors in a salt water tank to consider as well. Ph, nitrates, nitrites and salinity. It is beneficial to have argonite sand in a salt water aquarium as part of the ecosystem we build and to balance the ph lvls.

I hope you manage to help this fella through.

[btreyes]

I would really consider buying some "stability" or other formula with starter bacteria to get you through this first major hurdle. Stability should do the trick with getting you through the cycle almost immediately.

[mtc1966]

wendy i am in ct as long as charlene both of us have seahorses. you may want to consider joining ctars. but for right now the minimum tank size should be 29g. the only problem with one of us taking in your erectus is that if they come from different breeders they may be carrying different pathogens which can wipe out a tank. by the way i am curios as to what store sold a package that way. you could pm that if you dont want to put it here.
as far as to behavior my erectus do all sorts of goofy stuff including laying and playing in the sand . keep up water changes get a ammonia remover . they dont really remove it but convert it to a safe type. frozen mysis is their main feed and it sounds like thats what you have. put some stuff in the tank it can hitch to .live macro or airline tubing works great.

[mtc1966]

wendy i am in ct as long as charlene both of us have seahorses. you may want to consider joining ctars. but for right now the minimum tank size should be 29g. the only problem with one of us taking in your erectus is that if they come from different breeders they may be carrying different pathogens which can wipe out a tank. by the way i am curios as to what store sold a package that way. you could pm that if you dont want to put it here.
as far as to behavior my erectus do all sorts of goofy stuff including laying and playing in the sand . keep up water changes get a ammonia remover . they dont really remove it but convert it to a safe type. frozen mysis is their main feed and it sounds like thats what you have. put some stuff in the tank it can hitch to .live macro or airline tubing works great. oh and best of luck with you new journey. post a pic of the pony if you can.

[WendyCT]

Thanks mtc1966 - I am going to join Ctars just as soon as I can. Right now I have my son graduating HS on Friday and then we have to go to his college orientation. I am working with Charlene to quickly put together a healthy tank for my little sea horse. He is still holding on and was actually a little playful today - playing in the little bit of current from the filter, swimming after some food that floated past him.. and he has been coming to the same place each morning and evening where I place in food for him. I have several fake plants for him to anchor on (he has a favorite he anchors on at night it seems) and I also have some sea shells that he seems to like to anchor to after he has eaten a little.. or when waiting for food to float by.

I did purchase ammonia remover today but am concerned because the back states that one should be careful because it causes the oxygen level to drop... ??

The store was one in Vernon. I will check with my son what the name was again and PM you. Thank you for the info on the pathogens. Charlene shared that with me too. So much to learn but what a great, friendly group there is here to help me learn!

[Zach Vs Ponies]

I like to get on Yahoo! Answers sometimes and browse through the questions, and answer some of them. I see a lot of questions like these, though they are very rarely with seahorses and normally with betta fish or goldfish. But, most people normally don't care about the animal's life and when it dies they just go pick up another one and try again. I'm glad to see you have come to a place to attempt to save the little guy/girls life.

I can't remember whether I saw if anyone answered your question about if it is sad about leaving his buddy at the pet shop, but I honestly believe that seahorses do get "sad" when their tank mate dies, or they are separated from them.

I have recently had a seahorse die, and the few days after her death I did see a little bit of change in behavior ever since she was removed from the tank. Fortunately, they did perk back up a few days afterwards. Now, from what I know, this isn't "scientifically" proven, but it's just one of my opinions.

But, I'm sure you have learned a very valuable lesson in fish keeping: It's not always good to listen to just the owner of the local fish store. If I would have listened to the owner of one of my local fish stores, my first seahorses would have been living in a 3 Gallon JBJ Picotope aquarium . Fortunately I, like you, went to other (better) sources for my knowledge.

Best of luck to you!

[mtc1966]

Wendy it sounds like you at least got a good healthy seahorse. erectus are said to be the hardiest of the species. Charlene is a good person to hook up with . I think the worst may be over as long as you do weekly water changes you should be able to keep it in the 10 g while a new tank cycles although i would us a cycle boost to try and speed things up.(some people say these products are snake oil but i always us them)
it a shame i just sold my old 29g set up like a week ago .
i just looked up Bolton on the map you are closer then i thought. and you have a couple good stores near you fintastic in Manchester and puppy center in w hartford

[WendyCT]

Just wanted to add a quick update.. between Charlene and Karl (members here) I have been able to get a 29g tank with skimmer, lights, water, some plants/algea, and help from Fintastic and Aquatic Wildlife for water, and sand and a few more dead rocks. And thanks to mtc1966 for all his guidence.. So the tank has been set up and is cycling now.

I was given EasyStart (beneficial bacterial booster) and was told if I added that I could add the sea horse in 7-10 days.. Thoughts on if this is correct or not? I would love to be able to move him as soon as possible out of his 10g tank into a healthier set up....??

I am going to try and add some pictures of the little guy. He is still holding on and some days doing really great and playing/swimming all around and other days he just kinda hangs to the bottom and comes up just to eat. He is very curious and on good days will follow my finger around the tank, swim to the corner to "watch" as I feed/clean out the LARGE gold fish we have in a tank next to his - he doesn't like to miss out on much. LOL

If anyone has thoughts/feelings on the EasyStart they want to share I'm all ears... trying to learn as much as I can.

[WendyCT]

hopefully this works
He is such a sweet little pony. I hope he continues to do well and makes it to the new tank.. I would love to be able to go to the pet store where my son got him so I can pick up his friend that was there with him. There were just the two of them and I worry he is lonely..

[rayjay]

As I've never used easy start, I'm unable to help with that info other than if testing shows 0 ammonia and 0 nitrite I would add some ammonia and see how long it takes to clear. If it clears in 8 to 10 hours then you probably would be good to go.
Your "he" may be a "she".
In the pictures, the body form is that of a female or underdeveloped male.
If the seahorse is in the 3 to 4 inch range then it should have developed a pouch by now if it was a male.
One thing about the pictures is that it showed a lot of uneaten food on the sponge.
You may be feeding too much or the seahorse is like many and is very selective about the pieces it actually will snick up.
In any case, with what is on the sponge I assume there is probably more on the bottom and trapped amongst decor.
Unfortunately, seahorses have a big problem with bacterial diseases and the bacterial diseases come from bacteria beds that feed on uneaten food and detritus.
Remedy is to remove all uneaten food, moving and stirring decor to find what can't be seen.
That coupled with keeping the temps in the range of 68° to 74° will lessen the chances of problems due to bacteria.

[mtc1966]

any updates ? did the skimmer problem get figured out. dont forget call or text me when you want macros.

[WendyCT]

Sorry- busy week but so far the little girl is doing, it appears, well. She was very playful tonight. Up to the top to "watch" when I took water samples. She was chasing after the food (i use the frozen Mysis (spg?) and swirl them a little to make them "move". She always goes after the biggest/longest pieces.. never fails.

I am still struggling with the numbers. Right now this is what it "looks" like in both my tanks:
10g // Nitrate 40, Nitrite 1.0, Ammonia .25 (i did put neutrilizer in it so I'm told this number may not be accurate as it may still register higher than I need it to be but it could no longer be harmful?)

29g // Nitrate 50, Nitrite .25, Ammonia .50

I have to get more PH tester in the morning. The salidity of both is good - right about 1.021-1.022.

On the 10g I just have an Aqua filter with sponge on the bottom, live rock, macros, 2 blue leg hermit crabs (I believe that is what they are called) and that is it. I have a hook on fan that I have had to use the last couple of days because of the heat so the temp has stayed around 70-74

On the 29g I have a Fin filter (just a different brand, hang on back), a wet skimmer, live rock, dead rock, small macro, and a bunch of snails (all recommended by Fintastic in Manchester).. I drop in a little food every couple of days to keep the snails alive.

I added a bacteria booster/Easy Start to the 29g tank. I was told I should be able to move my little girl over to the new tank this weekend. I am going to see what the levels are of course.

I am surprised but very thankful that she is still hanging in there especially since I was ill equiped to house her when i first got her. She is a fighter! and I continue to listen to all advice and do my best to make her comfortable and keep her healthy. She is so much fun to watch!

Mtc1996 I will be contacting you to see if you might be around this weekend. Thanks again for the offer!!

~Wendy

[WendyCT]

Originally Posted by mtc1966

any updates ? did the skimmer problem get figured out. dont forget call or text me when you want macros.

Yes, I believe it did, thanks for asking. I spoke with Ryan at Fintastics when I was there getting the clean up crew and he explained how they work and was able to demonstrate a little with a similar one that he had on a tank there.

so much to learn! but I am sure it will be well worth it.

~Wendy

[mtc1966]

glad you got the skimmer issue resolved . like your new avator

[WendyCT]

((update))
Catherine the Curious is doing well - all things considered. She is in the 29g tank now (mainly because the 10g was not doing well and I was worried that it would get too toxic no matter how hard I was trying to keep it healthy). The 29g ran for 2 weeks before she was put in.
She seems to be enjoying the space and LOVES to follow the snails around. She truly is curious. This evening she hooked onto one of the plants and watched the little blue leg crab move around. she was nearly turning herself upside to watch him move.

The ammonia is coming down but not quite to 0 yet. It was at .50 for quite a while and is now down to .25. The problem I am having now though is getting the Nitrate down. It seems to have spiked in the last 2 days?? Is this normal? Is there a reason it would be going up? Is there a way to bring it down?

In the tank I have 2 small blue legged (??) crabs, 4 algea eating snails, and the 3 snails tha burrow in the sand with their "nose" sticking up (though I have not seen them out and about lately even when I have food being put in ??). Sorry I do not have the technical/real names for the snails yet but will next time I am in Fintastic.

One other thing is, much to my dismay, my son went and purchased my Seahorses tank make from the pet store in Vernon and added it to the 29g. He had heard me saying how I need to find a mirror because Catherine was "moping" around and could be lonely. Another seahorse owner had said that putting a mirror in would help... so my son thought it would be better to get the other seahorse as she was probably lonely too. So now I have 2 females. They do appear to be happy together and seemed to recognize each other?? They've been curling up tails together. sleeping curled up on the same anchors. I would have prefered to have waited until the water levels were perfect but... (and yes, my son has been read the riot act about buying any more pets without asking permission first!!)

So - besides the nitrate issue .. everything seems to be going on. The skimmer is working well, the fan is keeping the tank to around 68-72 ... any other thoughts or suggestions to keep these two gals happy?

(and thank you so much to those who have reached out and helped! MTC1996 I will be reaching out for some of your plants/macras (??) soon and hopefully get the chance to see your tanks!!)

[TamiW]

I don't believe that is H. erectus. I'd need a clearer picture to say for sure, but it appears to my eyes to be the species commonly sold as H. kelloggi. (Which I'm not sure are actually that species either, but that's another story for another day). I'd need a clearer profile shot and preferably one of the head, but I'm thinking it's something else.

Is it the nitrate that is spiking, or the nitrite? Nitrate is much less of a concern, and some is normal. nitrite will spike after the ammonia spike. The bacteria converts ammonia (secreted from fishes' gills and created by decomposing food and fecal material) to nitrite, and finally to nitrate, which is only problematic in higher amounts.

I would do my best to get both ammonia and nitrite to 0, even if it means daily water changes. It will slow the cycle, but I think you could end up with a secondary infection or long term damage if those levels stay elevated. You really want them at 0. Do you have the ability to get some more established live rock and/or some established filter media from a store or local aquarist?

The snails are probably nassarius.

[mtc1966]

fishgrrl do you think she could have a northern erectus i think they have longer snouts then the southern ones.
the only reason i question it being kelloggi is that they are usually very fragile and i think would of died by now. not trying to second guess you as you have a lot more experience then i do .

[TamiW]

I'm going off the overall body shape and head shape. It doesn't look very erectus-y (technical term*) to me. But I can't say positively until I see a better picture. Yes, it is true that H. kelloggi tend to have problems, but they tend to do fine for a while before having problems. Also, my first blush ID is just that - without a better picture, I'm really just guessing. For example, it could also be H. kuda, which if it came from ORA do much better.


*not really.

[mtc1966]

very good . I am still learning those technical terms l.o.l

[WendyCT]

when my son bought them he was told they were "yellow Kuda"?
I attached a couple pictures - I hope they help.. would love to hear your thoughts...

[TamiW]

They are lovely! And the caulerpa looks great too.

They look like H. kelloggi or H. kuda - I'm terrible at telling those two apart. Even though the fish store said kuda, I wouldn't rule out a different species, the name kuda is probably one of the most misapplied species name of any seahorse. Right now I'm leaning towards "kelloggi"

Would you be able to find out the source of the seahorses from the fish store? If the fish store is able to tell you their source, you might be able to figure out more specifically the species and how they were raised. This is important, because a lot of seahorses are tank raised in asia, and because of their rearing protocols and shipping distance, don't always have the best record in captivity. You may need to deworm them if they were raised in unfiltered natural seawater as opposed to a closed system.

[WendyCT]

Thanks FishGrrl! I called the pet store (Wet Pets) in Vernon, Ct and they were helpful to an extent. They told me they were:
*tank raised but not locally
*been with them in the store for 1 month
*were treated with Metronidasle (spg?) right when they arrived
*had light copper "running" in the tank

I tried to get where the seahorses were from but he just kept saying "they were tank raised but not locally"...

They are both doing really well, eating, chasing the food, anchoring, and Cat is still as curious about everything that goes on inside/outside the tank as ever.

Do you think they need to be dewormed?