High nitrates in established tank

Bpsohl · 06/20/2012, 10:49 PM

Hey all, I am new to saltwater and I have purchased a 29 gal biocube which was already established by a guy who seems to do a lot of reef trading locally. My question is: I have tested all of my parameters and everything looks great EXCEPT my nitrates which are consistently high. I have done 2 5 gallon water changes in the past week and the results are the same. What should I do?? :-(

Tmoriarty · 06/20/2012, 11:18 PM

To start, we need to know what high nitrates are? remember that a 5 gal water change is only around 18% (estimating) of your water. That means if you have 20 nitrates, they will only drop by 4 or so.

how much are you feeding? Were the nitrates high before you moved the tank? Moving a tank can cause a lot of stuff to come up that has been sitting idol under the sandbed or rockwork. This can cause some mini-cycles and is normally considered normal.

Give us some more information and people will do the best to help you that we can.

bnumair · 06/20/2012, 11:40 PM

above post is correct. also i am guessing when u moved/transfered the tank over to ur place u might have had few die off and might have stirred some nasty from the sand. if all that was done recently. if its been at ur place for much longer than just a few days then its got to be in feeding or also check ur ro/di water and saltwater that u use to do ato or water changes with. it has to be coming in from one of the sources stated.

hollister · 06/21/2012, 01:54 AM

Do u test for phosphates?
Low flow , over feeding , overstocking , water source could all cause this.

Bpsohl · 06/21/2012, 07:03 AM

Well I buy petcos "real ocean salt water" which claims to have 0 nitrates and 8.4 PH for my water changes. My phosphates are at good levels as well. I have added two hermit crabs and several snails, the tank came with a clown, a serpent star and a Tasha goby

pootiethetang · 06/21/2012, 07:07 AM

How much and what are you feeding?

that is the first most likely cause of high nitrates.

Bpsohl · 06/21/2012, 01:06 PM

They are being fed one fourth of a frozen myosis (sp?) shrimp cube once daily

power boat jim · 06/21/2012, 01:10 PM

Without test numbers its hard to help you. Is this fish only or do you have coral also?

KRAZE · 06/21/2012, 01:22 PM

if you could give an explanation of how you went about moving the tank and re-setting it up and on what date that was that you did so, then we would be able to rule out certain things.

I used sand in my 30gal that was from a 240 gal fish tank system at the LFS i work at which has been set up for 7 years, so the live sand was VERY live, and my nitrates stayed high for 3 weeks during my cycle before they even began to drop, and that was with NO livestock in the tank (besides snails/hermits added after 10days) and no feeding of any sort. This was due only to the the fact that i stirred up a bunch of crud from a 7 year established sand bed, so that is most likely like whats happening in your tank and it's normal.

gweston · 06/21/2012, 01:24 PM

A few ways to keep nitrates in check:

-Utilize a protein skimmer
-Periodic water changes
-Macroalgae (uses nitrates as fertilizer to grow). If you have a space for a refugium of some sort.
-Nutrient control (what food goes in, pretty much stays in, unless it is skimmed, or filtered, or removed with water changes).

For my old 29gal + sump system, I changed ~5-6 gallons per week. So I'd think a 5 gallon change weekly for your tank would be more than enough.

If phosphates are an issue, you could try to use a phosphate reduucing pad, or a GFO reactor. The above suggestions for nitrates also should help.

What is your nitrate reading? I wouldn't worry much if it is around 10 ppm or a bit higher. As long as it stays in check. The lower the better of course... but some corals like some nitrates in the water. My new system currently hovers around 10ppm, my former 29g tank hovered around 0-5ppm. 0 meaning undetectable by the kit I was using, though surely it is present.

1/4 cube for feeding isn't that much, and probably isn't the cause. I had 2 clowns, a blenny, and a dwarf angel in my 29. They probably went through the equivalent of a good half cube of food daily (two feedings). But, I had some 80lbs of liverock split between tank and sump... which is quite large for a system that size. That may have helped too.

Bpsohl · 06/21/2012, 05:15 PM

I bought and transported the biocube last Thursday and the water was put into buckets and the live rock was with some more of the water in a bug tub. The sand was left with hardly any water in the tank. My nitrate levels have consistently been 40ppm or higher (they dropped slightly after my water changes) I have read some people saying that a protein skimmer is not necessary but I am starting to think otherwise...

acabgd · 06/21/2012, 05:22 PM

I would say this is mostly the result of the move and things will settle in a few weeks. You might want to reduce feeding though and maybe do some more water changes until things stabilize.

kissman · 06/21/2012, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bpsohl

Well I buy petcos "real ocean salt water" which claims to have 0 nitrates and 8.4 PH for my water changes. My phosphates are at good levels as well. I have added two hermit crabs and several snails, the tank came with a clown, a serpent star and a Tasha goby

I wouldn't buy water for a goldfish from petco!

Bpsohl · 06/21/2012, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kissman

I wouldn't buy water for a goldfish from petco!

Haha it's not for goldfish it's saltwater

bnumair · 06/21/2012, 05:54 PM

kissman i dont think he got it.... lol
what he meant to say bpsohl is that some of us dont buy anything from petco.
petco has very bad rep among lots of reefers.

Bpsohl · 06/21/2012, 11:11 PM

Ahhhh gotcha. I guess I was taking the easy way out with water changes by buying the stuff ready to go

fishgate · 06/22/2012, 05:53 AM

Did you test the nitrates before you moved the tank? My nitrates are high all the time (20-40 plus). Bad, yes, I know. But I can't get them down so I just live with it. Doesn't seem to bother the fish or the few corals I have.

coralreefnc · 06/22/2012, 07:17 AM

Do u clean with RO Mysis shrimp? They do have alot phospates.

KRAZE · 06/22/2012, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acabgd

I would say this is mostly the result of the move and things will settle in a few weeks. You might want to reduce feeding though and maybe do some more water changes until things stabilize.

+1, it makes sense. If you still have high nitrates after 3 or 4 water changes then you can search for another cause, but it looks like it was just the move.

Also, you don't NEED a skimmer with a bio cube, but it wouldn't hurt.

Bpsohl · 06/23/2012, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishgate

Did you test the nitrates before you moved the tank? My nitrates are high all the time (20-40 plus). Bad, yes, I know. But I can't get them down so I just live with it. Doesn't seem to bother the fish or the few corals I have.

Unfortunately I didn't test the water before I moved it. I was very, VERY oblivious to almost everything about saltwater tanks. This has definitely been a learning process, although a fun one!

Bpsohl · 06/23/2012, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coralreefnc

Do u clean with RO Mysis shrimp? They do have alot phospates.

What's RO? Any other descriptions of commonly used acronyms used on this site would be greatly appreciated as well :-)

staindsoul · 06/23/2012, 06:08 AM

stickies are great here

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1672798

Michigan Mike · 06/23/2012, 10:00 AM

Reverse osmosis and deionized water needs to be used with a good salt like Instant Ocean. Change as much of the water you can while matching salinity and temp. If you can do a 50% water change and add your own good RO/DI water with your own good salt then your nitrates should drop a good amount ( almost 50% ) in theory.

I have a feeling petco is selling you their old water they took out of their tanks when they did a water change . Test the water they give you before you add it into your tank next time ( if you want to know ) , i wonder if it has nitrates and phosphates from the start ?
You never know unless you test it yourself.

06/20/2012, 10:49 PM	#1
Bpsohl Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 8	High nitrates in established tank Hey all, I am new to saltwater and I have purchased a 29 gal biocube which was already established by a guy who seems to do a lot of reef trading locally. My question is: I have tested all of my parameters and everything looks great EXCEPT my nitrates which are consistently high. I have done 2 5 gallon water changes in the past week and the results are the same. What should I do?? :-(

06/20/2012, 11:18 PM	#2
Tmoriarty Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Visalia, Ca Posts: 1,040	To start, we need to know what high nitrates are? remember that a 5 gal water change is only around 18% (estimating) of your water. That means if you have 20 nitrates, they will only drop by 4 or so. how much are you feeding? Were the nitrates high before you moved the tank? Moving a tank can cause a lot of stuff to come up that has been sitting idol under the sandbed or rockwork. This can cause some mini-cycles and is normally considered normal. Give us some more information and people will do the best to help you that we can. __________________ Tyler Current Tank Info: Tanks: 203g custom, Mixed Reef, SRO-3000, Vortech-Powered (x2 MP40) 75g sump with 15g Fuge section

06/20/2012, 11:40 PM	#3
bnumair Dr. Reef at ur service Join Date: May 2009 Location: Tulsa, Ok, USA Posts: 7,751 Blog Entries: 15	above post is correct. also i am guessing when u moved/transfered the tank over to ur place u might have had few die off and might have stirred some nasty from the sand. if all that was done recently. if its been at ur place for much longer than just a few days then its got to be in feeding or also check ur ro/di water and saltwater that u use to do ato or water changes with. it has to be coming in from one of the sources stated. __________________ Water Quality: NO3 0,Phos 0,Cal 440,Alk 7.5,Mag 1300 "Reef Fast, You Crash, Reef Slow, You Pass" Mike's Reef 3:16 Current Tank Info: 350g DT,95g sump, 50g Frag tank, 4800gph return 4x Sea swirls. 6x AI Vega Color. 200# Pukani rock, dual recirculating skimmer, Biopellet, GFO Carbon rx's, Cal rx. Closed loop. 1.5hp chiller, genesis renew. Apex & RKE

06/21/2012, 01:24 PM	#10
gweston Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Gardner, MA Posts: 961	A few ways to keep nitrates in check: -Utilize a protein skimmer -Periodic water changes -Macroalgae (uses nitrates as fertilizer to grow). If you have a space for a refugium of some sort. -Nutrient control (what food goes in, pretty much stays in, unless it is skimmed, or filtered, or removed with water changes). For my old 29gal + sump system, I changed ~5-6 gallons per week. So I'd think a 5 gallon change weekly for your tank would be more than enough. If phosphates are an issue, you could try to use a phosphate reduucing pad, or a GFO reactor. The above suggestions for nitrates also should help. What is your nitrate reading? I wouldn't worry much if it is around 10 ppm or a bit higher. As long as it stays in check. The lower the better of course... but some corals like some nitrates in the water. My new system currently hovers around 10ppm, my former 29g tank hovered around 0-5ppm. 0 meaning undetectable by the kit I was using, though surely it is present. 1/4 cube for feeding isn't that much, and probably isn't the cause. I had 2 clowns, a blenny, and a dwarf angel in my 29. They probably went through the equivalent of a good half cube of food daily (two feedings). But, I had some 80lbs of liverock split between tank and sump... which is quite large for a system that size. That may have helped too. __________________ 245 gals*: <Displays>: 125g 6' + 40breeder <Sump>: 80g combined (60g sump+20g fuge) <May2012-Present> RETIRED - 29g, 80+# LR, 2" SB ~15g sump <Jan2010-May2012>

06/21/2012, 05:54 PM	#15
bnumair Dr. Reef at ur service Join Date: May 2009 Location: Tulsa, Ok, USA Posts: 7,751 Blog Entries: 15	kissman i dont think he got it.... lol what he meant to say bpsohl is that some of us dont buy anything from petco. petco has very bad rep among lots of reefers. __________________ Water Quality: NO3 0,Phos 0,Cal 440,Alk 7.5,Mag 1300 "Reef Fast, You Crash, Reef Slow, You Pass" Mike's Reef 3:16 Current Tank Info: 350g DT,95g sump, 50g Frag tank, 4800gph return 4x Sea swirls. 6x AI Vega Color. 200# Pukani rock, dual recirculating skimmer, Biopellet, GFO Carbon rx's, Cal rx. Closed loop. 1.5hp chiller, genesis renew. Apex & RKE

06/21/2012, 01:54 AM	#4
hollister Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 2,037	Do u test for phosphates? Low flow , over feeding , overstocking , water source could all cause this.

06/21/2012, 07:03 AM	#5
Bpsohl Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 8	Well I buy petcos "real ocean salt water" which claims to have 0 nitrates and 8.4 PH for my water changes. My phosphates are at good levels as well. I have added two hermit crabs and several snails, the tank came with a clown, a serpent star and a Tasha goby

06/21/2012, 07:07 AM	#6
pootiethetang Registered Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: VA Posts: 75	How much and what are you feeding? that is the first most likely cause of high nitrates.

06/21/2012, 01:06 PM	#7
Bpsohl Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 8	They are being fed one fourth of a frozen myosis (sp?) shrimp cube once daily

06/21/2012, 01:10 PM	#8
power boat jim Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Wisconsin, The big peninsula Posts: 2,100	Without test numbers its hard to help you. Is this fish only or do you have coral also?

06/21/2012, 01:22 PM	#9
KRAZE Moved On Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Shelton, CT Posts: 208	if you could give an explanation of how you went about moving the tank and re-setting it up and on what date that was that you did so, then we would be able to rule out certain things. I used sand in my 30gal that was from a 240 gal fish tank system at the LFS i work at which has been set up for 7 years, so the live sand was VERY live, and my nitrates stayed high for 3 weeks during my cycle before they even began to drop, and that was with NO livestock in the tank (besides snails/hermits added after 10days) and no feeding of any sort. This was due only to the the fact that i stirred up a bunch of crud from a 7 year established sand bed, so that is most likely like whats happening in your tank and it's normal.

06/21/2012, 05:15 PM	#11
Bpsohl Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 8	I bought and transported the biocube last Thursday and the water was put into buckets and the live rock was with some more of the water in a bug tub. The sand was left with hardly any water in the tank. My nitrate levels have consistently been 40ppm or higher (they dropped slightly after my water changes) I have read some people saying that a protein skimmer is not necessary but I am starting to think otherwise...

06/21/2012, 05:22 PM	#12
acabgd Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Belgrade Posts: 1,086	I would say this is mostly the result of the move and things will settle in a few weeks. You might want to reduce feeding though and maybe do some more water changes until things stabilize.

06/21/2012, 11:11 PM	#16
Bpsohl Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 8	Ahhhh gotcha. I guess I was taking the easy way out with water changes by buying the stuff ready to go

06/22/2012, 05:53 AM	#17
fishgate Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Damascus, MD Posts: 3,340	Did you test the nitrates before you moved the tank? My nitrates are high all the time (20-40 plus). Bad, yes, I know. But I can't get them down so I just live with it. Doesn't seem to bother the fish or the few corals I have. __________________ 125RR in-wall, 40B Sump, CS180 BM Skimmer, ATI 4x80 watt, eheim 1262, custom wrap around rock wall, ReefKeeper Elite 120g in-wall, 40B Sump, PC 54wx4, Jabao DC-6000 (full siphon), future seahorse t Current Tank Info: 125g, 120g, 2x40b sumps, ATI 4x80 T5HO

06/22/2012, 07:17 AM	#18
coralreefnc Registered Member. Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: NC Posts: 104	Do u clean with RO Mysis shrimp? They do have alot phospates.

06/23/2012, 06:08 AM	#22
staindsoul Calvin for President Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: R'VA Posts: 509	stickies are great here http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1672798 __________________ Mitchell-60g, 2-A150W 10ks, 2-Hydor 425s, 1-240, 20gL sump/refugium “Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm” – Winston Churchill

06/23/2012, 10:00 AM	#23
Michigan Mike Freedom costs a buckofive Join Date: May 2012 Location: Michigan Posts: 3,002	Reverse osmosis and deionized water needs to be used with a good salt like Instant Ocean. Change as much of the water you can while matching salinity and temp. If you can do a 50% water change and add your own good RO/DI water with your own good salt then your nitrates should drop a good amount ( almost 50% ) in theory. I have a feeling petco is selling you their old water they took out of their tanks when they did a water change . Test the water they give you before you add it into your tank next time ( if you want to know ) , i wonder if it has nitrates and phosphates from the start ? You never know unless you test it yourself.