When does this become fun?

[Spyderturbo007]

I guess most of this post is a vent and the other part is a cry for help.

But seriously, is this really supposed to be fun or am I just incompetent?

My tank has been up since 6/26/12, I'm thousands of dollars deep and all I have to show for it is one fish in QT that's swimming at an angle, algae all over the place and Zoanthid eating Nudibranchs destroying the only interesting thing I have in my DT.

Every time I go to feed the little fish in QT, I feel bad for her just sitting there idle with nothing to do. Living in a baron tank with nothing but a small rock and an air stone I think she is afraid to get anywhere near. I can't find out if her swimming issue is normal or if she needs medicine, so maybe I should just throw her in the DT so if she does get sick and die, at least she was happy for awhile.

My phosphate levels are way too high (0.17ppm) and I don't have any room for a reactor in my cabinet. Algae is growing all over everything and I have to clean the glass by hand because the stupid magnet I paid $50 for, skips like a 1960's record player. Besides all that, I fell like all I do is work on the tank when I get home from work.

If I'm not cleaning filter socks, mixing up salt water, doing water changes, performing about 50 different tests, updating my log book, etc, I'm spending countless hours reading anything I can find. My wife is beginning to think I'm insane and I'm starting to believe her.

Does this hobby become fun at some point, or have do I need to throw another couple thousand dollars at the tank before I can sit back an enjoy the thing? I knew I should have bought that Yamaha R6 instead. This is so frustrating.

Sorry for the rant, but I just needed to vent. Oddly enough, I do feel a little better now.

[MrTuskfish]

First thing: Stop worrying about the fish in the QT. Fish are fish and care about 3 things (IMO) eating, not being eaten, and reproducing. If a fish in your QT is healthy and eating, that's as "happy" as he's going yo get. Waiting is part of the hobby. Having patience is not a quality everyone has; their stuff is for sale on Craigslist. A beautiful, healthy, living tank is down the road---if you have the patience. If not, get the Yamaha.

[ReachTheSky]

Sorry to hear of your troubles. Pesky little issues truly are like plagues if you do not have the experience to handle them. It took me around 6-8 months to finally get things to start looking up on my first tank. Equipment, livestock compatibility, chemistry, etc. etc.

If I were you, I would take those Zoas out and bathe them in coral dip right away. Those nudi's will multiply quickly if it's not taken care of.

Are you sure you cant hang the little TLF reactor on one of the baffles inside your sump? Those things are submersible to a certain point. If you truly do not have ANY ROOM for it at all, a bag of GFO in your filter sock is the least you can do to bring those phosphates down.

You just have to stick to it. Once these problems are gone, you will be rewarded with a beautiful piece of marine nature right in your living room. Once your friends and family are gawking at the marvelous beauty of it, you'll be glad you did it.

[ibefishy]

No, the hobby never becomes "fun". Lots of work as you have noticed. But seriously, your tank has only been set up for just over a month and is probably still going thru its initial cycle. What kind of water did you use to fill it when starting up? Hopefully not tap water, that can cause major algae issues. As far as being insane, yes all reefers are insane. It is an addiction that only gets worse. The first year or so is the toughest one, it gets easier as your tank matures and becomes more stable.
Maybe you could list some info about the tank, lights, skimmer, and water parameters so that we could help you get everything in order. Just be patient and dont get discouraged. Keep in mind if you decide to give up and sell everything off you probably wont get close to what you have spent on it. Once you get your tank stable and running smooth you will look for things to do to it. Then you can start the empty tank in the garage collection.

[pktech]

If you don't have one already, get a large (4") elbow of PVC & put it in your qt to give your little fish some security. That should make it a little easier on him. I can't help w/ the other issues unfortunately.

[Spyderturbo007]

Originally Posted by ReachTheSky

If I were you, I would take those Zoas out and bathe them in coral dip right away. Those nudi's will multiply quickly if it's not taken care of.

I dipped them two days ago and didn't see any eggs, but apparently there were some that I missed. Everything was good until this morning when I noticed a few more nudi's crawling around on the zoanthids. I'll have to pull them out tonight, dip them again, and see if I can find the eggs.

Originally Posted by ReachTheSky

Are you sure you cant hang the little TLF reactor on one of the baffles inside your sump? Those things are submersible to a certain point. If you truly do not have ANY ROOM for it at all, a bag of GFO in your filter sock is the least you can do to bring those phosphates down.

All the ones that I've seen need to be screwed into something to be held secure. I have the ProFlex Model 2 sump. The far left chamber is a wash with the two filter socks. The center chamber has some ruble rock (the LFS told me to put it in there) and my Bubble Magus skimmer. The far right chamber has my return pump and it's big old strainer thing on the end.

Originally Posted by ReachTheSky

You just have to stick to it. Once these problems are gone, you will be rewarded with a beautiful piece of marine nature right in your living room. Once your friends and family are gawking at the marvelous beauty of it, you'll be glad you did it.

Thanks for the encouragement. I don't have any plans to quit and to be honest, frustration typically makes me work harder to accomplish my goals. But complaining to someone that feels my pain normally makes me feel better.

Originally Posted by ibefishy

Maybe you could list some info about the tank, lights, skimmer, and water parameters so that we could help you get everything in order.

• ProFlex Model 2 Sump
• Bubble Magus Skimmer
• PondMasters Model 7 Return Pump
• 55 gallon Corner Flow Tank
• Marineland Cabinet Stand
• 250 watt heater
• AutoTopOff.com ATO
• ~60lbs of Live Rock

Water Parameters as of last full battery testing (7/26/12):

• Temp 79.7 (TLF Digital probe)
• Ammonia = 0ppm (API)
• Nitrates = 2.5ppm (API)
• Nitrites = 0ppm (API)
• pH = 8.2 (API)
• Alk = 10.25 (Hanna)
• Salinity = 1.025 (Refractometer)
• Phosphate = 0.17ppm (Hanna)
• Magnesium = 1,380 (Red Sea Pro)
• Calcium = 385ppm (Red Sea Pro)

The only thing I've been told was out of line was the PO4, which honestly changes almost daily. It was 0.36ppm (7/24), then 0.17ppm (7/26), and 0.11ppm (7/28).

Thanks everyone for keeping me from throwing my tank through the window.

[Donkeykong]

What type of water are you using, tap water, RO/DI, water from a grocery store. You are just outside of a month being setup, this time sucks because it is all about waiting for the tank to cycle and stabilize. Even after the initial cycle it will go thru blooms of algae and what not as the tank matures. This hobby is really about patience, trust me one month of waiting is nothing in the big picture of your tank. This hobby definitely gets fun but there is alot of work involved to get there.

[Michael]

Hi-, the only way you will get success and have fun is with an excellent water quality, master this and everything else will drop into place, Ignore other comments about feeding and lights etc, at your stage you need to master water quality and then you can think about everthing else, to get water quality you need to have decent bilogical filtration like live rock combined with flow and a decent skimmer and ensure any water you add to the tank is nutrient free, this is the basic essential need of all marine life, master this and everything will fall into place, testing with kits regulary at the early stages will help you on your way.

Mike

[Detroit_306]

[QUOTE=Spyderturbo007;20526422]all I have to show for it is one fish in QT that's swimming at an angle, algae all over the place and Zoanthid eating Nudibranchs destroying the only interesting thing I have in my DT.

My phosphate levels are way too high (0.17ppm) and I don't have any room for a reactor in my cabinet. Algae is growing all over everything and I have to clean the glass by hand because the stupid magnet I paid $50 for, skips like a 1960's record player. Besides all that, I fell like all I do is work on the tank when I get home from work.

If I'm not cleaning filter socks, mixing up salt water, doing water changes, performing about 50 different tests, updating my log book, etc, I'm spending countless hours reading anything I can find. My wife is beginning to think I'm insane and I'm starting to believe her.
QUOTE]

1.) have you tested your QT water? i dont personally use one but you may not have bacteria to combat the ammonia.

2.)Ive never dealt with nudibranches but thankfully you dont have much in your tank and you can treat it.

3.) i set up my 90 a few weeks before you and am having algae grow over everything, its the way it is with a fresh tank, add a clean up crew if you havent already, they will start to the mow the stuff down

4.) buy a phosban 150 and hang it on the back of your tank if you want a reactor, or i ran one on the side of my proflex model 1


**and you will get the hang of it, there is only so much you can read without learning by trial and error, thanks WILL get easier and less maintenance is around the corner

[insomniac2k2]

It took me 6 months of constant attention and building new solutions, to get to the point of low maintainence.

While your phosphates are bad, they arent terrible. Feed next to nothing and wait for a cycle. Use a TLF 150 reactor in your sump. Meantine, you can go pick up a poly filter or Pura filter (I use these), and cut it up into small circles that you can place in your filter sock. If you have an area in your sump that your flow can trickle down on the pad, even better.

And yes, your going to have to accept that it will require a lot of dedication (at least in the beginning). I found myself becoming litteraly obsesses with learning as much information as possible. I am pleased to say that it paid off. I am now relaxed and have MUCH more free time.

Here is what my maintenance schedule now looks like:

7 day week:

1- skip
2- clean glass and feed fish/eel
3- skip
4- skip
5- clean glass and feed fish
6- skip
7- feed coral (fish get leftovers)

Monthly vaccuum gravel and water change what was removed (30%ish)

LOTS of DIY automation lead to this schedule, but was worth every bit of stresss that was caused during those 6 months (I say this now, but man can I tell you that it didnt feel this way during those 6 months!)

[Tank14]

Using GFO has helped me out a ton along with the water changes.

[Spyderturbo007]

Originally Posted by Donkeykong

What type of water are you using, tap water, RO/DI, water from a grocery store.

I bought a 90gpd SpectraPure RO/DI system and have been using that for everything. The TDS meter reads 0 all the time on the out side.

Originally Posted by Detroit_306

1.) have you tested your QT water? i dont personally use one but you may not have bacteria to combat the ammonia.

I've only tested the QT for Temperature, pH and Ammonia. pH was 8.1, Temperature is 80 degrees and Ammonia was 0ppm. I used a piece of sacrificial live rock so I would have the biological filtration and didn't have to wait for a cycle. I am also using one of the SeaChem stick on Ammonia alert badges which is reading <0.2ppm.

It's been 7 days and was planning on doing a water change tonight, but that might have to wait until tomorrow since I have to deal with these Nudi's before they get out of hand.

[ReachTheSky]

Originally Posted by Spyderturbo007

A little TLF reactor should have no trouble fitting in your return chamber - unless your return pump is massive. The reactors are fairly small - about 2.5" in diameter and height shouldn't be an issue.

If not, then drop a bag of GFO in each one of those filter socks. That should take care of your phosphate problem with relative ease.

[Bolivian Ram]

Originally Posted by Spyderturbo007

I guess most of this post is a vent and the other part is a cry for help.

Not unusual with this kind of hobby.

But seriously, is this really supposed to be fun or am I just incompetent?

You are not incompetent. Starting up a saltwater aquarium is challenging. You are not alone.

My tank has been up since 6/26/12, I'm thousands of dollars deep and all I have to show for it is one fish in QT that's swimming at an angle, algae all over the place and Zoanthid eating Nudibranchs destroying the only interesting thing I have in my DT.

It's only been up a month. Meaning it still is cycling. Algae is normal at this point. At the moment, learn to control the algae before adding fish to your main tank. You know you have high phosphates (from the die off) you'll notice the algae decrease and phosphates decrease as time goes by. Also the nudibranch will eventually die once the zoanthids are gone, I would let them do what they are doing since you can always get more zoo's later once they are dead.

The fish in the QT will be fine. You QT the fish is a step in the right direction.

Also expect to pay hundreds for more fish, inverts and coral.

Every time I go to feed the little fish in QT, I feel bad for her just sitting there idle with nothing to do. Living in a baron tank with nothing but a small rock and an air stone I think she is afraid to get anywhere near. I can't find out if her swimming issue is normal or if she needs medicine, so maybe I should just throw her in the DT so if she does get sick and die, at least she was happy for awhile.

I doubt the fish is bored. It maybe scared due to not enough hiding places. I would look into marine aquarium safe decorations to serve as hiding places like a fake cave etc.

My phosphate levels are way too high (0.17ppm) and I don't have any room for a reactor in my cabinet. Algae is growing all over everything and I have to clean the glass by hand because the stupid magnet I paid $50 for, skips like a 1960's record player. Besides all that, I fell like all I do is work on the tank when I get home from work.

Was it a Magfloat or a magnetic scraper? I have found it takes out diatoms and some soft algae but for hard green algae you would need a metal scraper which you could get from an LFS. Also the tank will be work for a while for you until you learn ways to manage the tank and do maintenance efficiently.

If I'm not cleaning filter socks, mixing up salt water, doing water changes, performing about 50 different tests, updating my log book, etc, I'm spending countless hours reading anything I can find. My wife is beginning to think I'm insane and I'm starting to believe her.

Don't worry, my parents think I'm nuts for having 2 fish tanks lol.

Does this hobby become fun at some point, or have do I need to throw another couple thousand dollars at the tank before I can sit back an enjoy the thing? I knew I should have bought that Yamaha R6 instead. This is so frustrating.

It will, once your tank stabilizes and completes cycling.

Sorry for the rant, but I just needed to vent. Oddly enough, I do feel a little better now.

[Shoryureppa]

My tank has been set up for 2 months coming this Friday. Algae is out of control, I have fish in there, cyano bacteria and green hair algae is growing. I don't let it bother me. I know its a part of it. The tank is finding it's balance. I think the green hair algae looks awesome swaying on the waves. It will all eventually go away.

Put the fish in the display. The QT is stressing it out. Throw out the dying coral. It will always take care if itself. Change some water every week, but I can tell you water changes will be expensive in salt. I believe this is just a band aid from what is suppose to happen. Your nutrients will rise and the tank will compensate for it eventually.

This hobby is fun if you spend little time worrying about it. You are trying to replicate millions of years of evolution in a small glass box. Be patient. Research your next fish or coral that you want to buy. I don't really worry about these parameters too much. It's too stressful.

I don't have a QT tank. I think its stresses them out too much. I put them in the display when I get them. My fish get ich, they heal. My fish are healthy. If I buy a fish and ends up dying, it was probably too sick to rescue even if it looked healthy at the store. I bought those airstone figurines where bubble come out for freshwater tank. It's in the shape of a toilet.A small reminder of where they will end up if they don't get better.

That's just me though. Worry little, enjoy it. Buy a fish that you want, Welcome to the Hobby, It's great!

[Shoryureppa]

My tank has been set up for 2 months coming this Friday. Algae is out of control, I have fish in there, cyano bacteria and green hair algae is growing. I don't let it bother me. I know its a part of it. The tank is finding it's balance. I think the green hair algae looks awesome swaying on the waves. It will all eventually go away.

Put the fish in the display. The QT is stressing it out. Throw out the dying coral. It will always take care if itself. Change some water every week, but I can tell you water changes will be expensive in salt. I believe this is just a band aid from what is suppose to happen. Your nutrients will rise and the tank will compensate for it eventually.

This hobby is fun if you spend little time worrying about it. You are trying to replicate millions of years of evolution in a small glass box. Be patient. Research your next fish or coral that you want to buy. I don't really worry about these parameters too much. It's too stressful.

I don't have a QT tank. I think its stresses them out too much. I put them in the display when I get them. My fish get ich, they heal. My fish are healthy. If I buy a fish and ends up dying, it was probably too sick to rescue even if it looked healthy at the store. I bought those airstone figurines where bubble come out for freshwater tank. It's in the shape of a toilet.A small reminder of where they will end up if they don't get better.

That's just me though. Worry little, enjoy it. Buy a fish that you want, Welcome to the Hobby, It's great!

[sfmacguy]

Starting out can be a bit daunting sometimes, but as others have said, the payoff is amazing

[Spyderturbo007]

Originally Posted by Bolivian Ram

Also the nudibranch will eventually die once the zoanthids are gone, I would let them do what they are doing since you can always get more zoo's later once they are dead.

I thought about actually throwing that little piece of rock away. It's just a small piece of rubble rock about the size of my fist that I got lucky picking out at the store. But there are about 30 Zoanthids and since it was my first living thing in the tank, I'm going to try and save them.

Originally Posted by Bolivian Ram

The fish in the QT will be fine. You QT the fish is a step in the right direction.

Other than swimming slightly off vertical, she seems fine. I guess I just like animals too much. What other idiot buys a 12 gallon Fluval just for a Betta. :P

Originally Posted by Bolivian Ram

Also expect to pay hundreds for more fish, inverts and coral.

That I don't mind at all. As long as I get rid of this algae and all the junk floating around.

Originally Posted by Bolivian Ram

I doubt the fish is bored. It maybe scared due to not enough hiding places. I would look into marine aquarium safe decorations to serve as hiding places like a fake cave etc.

That's a good idea.

Originally Posted by Bolivian Ram

Was it a Magfloat or a magnetic scraper? I have found it takes out diatoms and some soft algae but for hard green algae you would need a metal scraper which you could get from an LFS. Also the tank will be work for a while for you until you learn ways to manage the tank and do maintenance efficiently.

I ended up with The Piranha Float. It jumps around like crazy when I try to use the darn thing.

[chrisfont23]

Spyder... this is a great post. Honestly. Let me try to give you some advice. First and foremost, I don't think there is a day that goes by where I say to myself that life would be easier without my 27g hex, my 10 gallon cardinal shoal, my 250g koi/cat pond or my 30 gallon water garden (I have resigned myself to minimally mentally keeping one), my 29 gallon Fire Belly Toad Vivarium (complete with [spawning] fish) or my 90g reef tank. Simple. But then what would I do?

It's a challenge - yes. Some people would argue this is pure delirium, esp considering I have 2 kids and house to take care of and of course, like everyone, a job that keeps me busy. But as people have pointed out, with a reef tank there are plenty of "arts" to master. Water quality. Coral propagation. Building an underwater garden. And all the while keeping fish happy. It's not easy. It's like leveling up in a video game. Plenty of undisciplined, know it alls tell me I am crazy for keeping upwards of 500g of "water based hobby" on my property. I respond with, "what else would I do." When people ask about my reef tank, I tell them the truth: the first 3 months are like a constant hell week. You are continually focused on every little detail and every little parameter. But after a while, like all things in life, the tank stabilizes. When this happens it's not a cake walk, but it gets easier. Things just go right. You can actually enjoy the tank.

Try not to overdo anything and make sure to ask a lot of questions. Separate the abundance of myths in this hobby from the facts. It is totally worth it in the end. I mean what's life without a couple of challenges along the way?

[nynick]

Take the fish out of the q tank and put it in the main tank, take the zoa out of the main tank and put it in the q tank. Keep it there untill you know that all the nudis are gone. At least that should take care of a couple of problems.

[Bolivian Ram]

Originally Posted by Spyderturbo007

I thought about actually throwing that little piece of rock away. It's just a small piece of rubble rock about the size of my fist that I got lucky picking out at the store. But there are about 30 Zoanthids and since it was my first living thing in the tank, I'm going to try and save them.

You gotta do what you gotta do. Hopefully you can exterminate those pests.

Other than swimming slightly off vertical, she seems fine. I guess I just like animals too much. What other idiot buys a 12 gallon Fluval just for a Betta. :P

Good. Betta bowls suck.

[sjnovakovich]

In your equipment list, I didn't see any circulating pumps. Good circulation helps keep things like cyano away and the flow through your live rock will increase the filtration of your water.
Like others have said, it is daunting getting started. I have over 30 years of freshwater experience and have only been into my reef since last October. It was a challenge to say the least. I now have a routine down that takes a total of about 3 to 4 hours per week. There are always challenges though. Right now I am figuring out a way to deal with flatworms and sargassum (hint: suggestions are welcome).
Again, as others have said also, patience is KEY.
Good luck and don't give up! The rewards will come. I just brought a video of my tank in to work today and my colleagues are amazed by the creatures and their beauty.

[sqwat]

i no im beating a dead horse here but youre tank is so young and you are going threw all ther prosseses of youre tank cycling.fresh water is fast salt a long time you will go threw spikes and every algea nown to man.i didnt put anything but cured live rock sand and clean up crew,cheato and micro verts in my tank for 11 months the second time i did this and like you wnt threw the whole mess the first time.since i waited i never had a prob just dip my corals and qt my fish.everyone wants a reef tank in one month and that allmost never works unless you like lots of algea and little polyp extension.now its been 12 years since i first started and i built the best refugium and algea screen i could make. i forget what to call it.now i dont ever have nitrates or phos detectable.i have 2 40 gallon tanks.both run of of a 20 gall long fuge.in the fuge i have 5 inch dsb with over 1000 live ipswich clams wich i harvested my self from the ocean .natural seaweed that is growing for years now i also harvested,hasty diggers wich are a small filter feeding crab that burrows istself i great to keep sand moving i have about 20.chaeto,red macro , turtle grass,and grape calaupera and a cactus like one.2 wild seahorses i also caught and do not feed they keep my macro verts down to a acceptable leval they are three years old and i also have wild caught grass shrimp wich breed constantly keeping everything fed.the clams work great on keeping nitrate down and food as they release eggs and sperm at night.im lucky i live by the ocean but this all took years to make and perfect you cant just throw clams in a tank you must slowly acclimate them same with the hasty diggers but they do a amazing job at cleaning the water.i rarly do water changes just top off with distilled only.i get great growth out of hard to grow corals like goni ,sun,and gorgonians and i do not directly feed them i just broadcaST LIGHTY FOR MY FISH.just get in the swing of what you like with youre tank and please take youre time and when you get succes it will be fun.a reef tank is challenging but soooo rewarding.people love my settupand stare at for hours when they come over feeding the fish and corals is so fun for them to watch and my kid loves everything about.also just buy good equipment and get everything stable for 10 months and buy cheap frags or weak dying corals fo cheap at lfs and bring them back wich is easy if dipped and you have a stable tank.most of my corals were frags or dying and the satifaction of bringing a 200 dollar coral back to life when u paid ten for it is unreal.

[PCFisher66]

A lot of good info, just remember come back to this thread in a year so you can say "Why did I worry so much". Believe me, it will all work out.

[Chris27]

Originally Posted by sqwat

i no im beating a dead horse here but youre tank is so young and you are going threw all ther prosseses of youre tank cycling.fresh water is fast salt a long time you will go threw spikes and every algea nown to man.i didnt put anything but cured live rock sand and clean up crew,cheato and micro verts in my tank for 11 months the second time i did this and like you wnt threw the whole mess the first time.since i waited i never had a prob just dip my corals and qt my fish.everyone wants a reef tank in one month and that allmost never works unless you like lots of algea and little polyp extension.now its been 12 years since i first started and i built the best refugium and algea screen i could make. i forget what to call it.now i dont ever have nitrates or phos detectable.i have 2 40 gallon tanks.both run of of a 20 gall long fuge.in the fuge i have 5 inch dsb with over 1000 live ipswich clams wich i harvested my self from the ocean .natural seaweed that is growing for years now i also harvested,hasty diggers wich are a small filter feeding crab that burrows istself i great to keep sand moving i have about 20.chaeto,red macro , turtle grass,and grape calaupera and a cactus like one.2 wild seahorses i also caught and do not feed they keep my macro verts down to a acceptable leval they are three years old and i also have wild caught grass shrimp wich breed constantly keeping everything fed.the clams work great on keeping nitrate down and food as they release eggs and sperm at night.im lucky i live by the ocean but this all took years to make and perfect you cant just throw clams in a tank you must slowly acclimate them same with the hasty diggers but they do a amazing job at cleaning the water.i rarly do water changes just top off with distilled only.i get great growth out of hard to grow corals like goni ,sun,and gorgonians and i do not directly feed them i just broadcaST LIGHTY FOR MY FISH.just get in the swing of what you like with youre tank and please take youre time and when you get succes it will be fun.a reef tank is challenging but soooo rewarding.people love my settupand stare at for hours when they come over feeding the fish and corals is so fun for them to watch and my kid loves everything about.also just buy good equipment and get everything stable for 10 months and buy cheap frags or weak dying corals fo cheap at lfs and bring them back wich is easy if dipped and you have a stable tank.most of my corals were frags or dying and the satifaction of bringing a 200 dollar coral back to life when u paid ten for it is unreal.

It's a good thing reefing doesn't require paragraphs and punctuation