Sick anemone? :(

aydemir · 09/23/2012, 09:43 AM

I got a new bta 2 days ago, and today it looked deflated, and I saw stringy things coming off the foot of the anemone. It also wouldnt accept food, and there are white streaks around its mouth. The mouth however is not gaping open. The first picture is from yesterday, it was looking good, the tips were bubbled and it was fully inflated. It also accepted food readily (mysis shrimp).

today:

Here is the foot, that stringy thing is coming from the foot on the other side, is it rot?

aydemir · 09/23/2012, 09:49 AM

Update: Shot of the mouth, it was after I attempted to feed it mysis, so maybe that is why it is puckered?

aydemir · 09/23/2012, 10:13 AM

Another update, its been about 20 minutes since i attempted to feed it mysis, maybe that is why it is balled up. The stringy bits on the left, and on the filter intake (rot?) is the stuff I was talking about earlier

aydemir · 09/23/2012, 10:34 AM

Right now the tentacles are not visible anymore, they are inside its foot I guess, anybody know what is happening?

Mr. Bill · 09/23/2012, 10:35 AM

Can you post current parameters (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, temp, SG)? What type of lighting and how much flow do you have? Also, how did you acclimate, and for how long?

aydemir · 09/23/2012, 10:44 AM

Ammonia: 0.25 ppm (was 0 yesterday :s)
nitrite: 0
nitrate: 5-10ppm (might be over 10 it is hard to tell with my test kit)
pH: 8.0
SG: 1.023-1.025 (hydrometer read 1.024 but is +/- 0.001)
temp: 25 degrees C
20W coralife 50/50 bulb
power filter for up to 10 gal, and a pico evolution pump (up to 160gph)
drip acclimated for an hour

Mr. Bill · 09/23/2012, 11:00 AM

Nems will frequently deflate or close to exchange water or expel waste. They also develop slime around the foot occasionally, which may shed in strings. It looks like it may be having a little difficulty adjusting, although feeding so soon may be the reason (one should wait at least a week). It also may have regurgitated the food, which could elevate the ammonia.

If you have Prime, I'd suggest using it to detoxify the ammonia for the benefit of everything in the tank. Also, a 10% WC or two will help reduce ammonia and nitrates.

The nem may take a few days, but it could still make a full recovery. Just keep a close eye on it. If it loses it's footing and/or the mouth starts gaping, you may need to pull it out.

aydemir · 09/23/2012, 11:04 AM

Ok, thanks so much for the advice. Unfortunately I dont have prime. I will do a WC right away, maybe another later, or tomorrow. The tank is small, so that is probably why the waste has built up so high in only a day. Relocating to a bigger tank soon. Is it normal for the tentacles to go completely inside the foot? There are no tentacles visible right now.

Mr. Bill · 09/23/2012, 11:14 AM

Yes. I've seen that numerous times, even with perfectly healthy nems that were just exchanging water, etc.

aydemir · 09/23/2012, 11:17 AM

Ok, Ill update tomorrow after the water changes, thanks for the help

Mr. Bill · 09/23/2012, 11:18 AM

No problem. Good luck!

aydemir · 09/24/2012, 09:06 AM

Update: After a 10% water change yesterday, I noticed salinity was 1.027! Stupid hydrometer, Im definitely going to purchase a refractometer. Im now slowly diluting back to 1.024, pic of the nem:

clownfish is breathing heavily and swims vertically for a second or two ...is this because of the salinity or not enough oxygen? The other water paremeters are acceptable. I have a 160gph pico evolution pump, and a 90gph power filter, so I thought that would be good enough for water movement/aeration.

edit: And the white streaks around the mouth of the nem, is that normal?

ssgtgonzo · 09/24/2012, 07:19 PM

The streaks may be part of the nem's coloration...so it's not necessarily a bad thing. How old is your setup?

rssjsb · 09/24/2012, 07:36 PM

Those streaks are normal for BTAs. It looks a lot better. Sometimes they shrink like that after feeding or when they're acclimating to a new tank

Having said that, did I read right that you've only got 20 watts of light over this tank? That's not enough light for your anemone. And if it's 50/50, half is actinic, which means that you've only got 10 watts in a spectrum that's useful for photosynthesis.

Is this a QT tank? I know you said you were upgrading, but I wouldn't keep him under those lights for very long.

aydemir · 09/24/2012, 07:38 PM

Yeah Im upgrading the tank along with the lighting, plan on getting an 18" Nova T5HO light fixture, 2 18 watt bulbs, is that good enough? Setup is about 3 months

rssjsb · 09/24/2012, 07:41 PM

36 watts isn't really enough either. How big is your new tank?

aydemir · 09/24/2012, 07:56 PM

Hopefully 30+, would that same fixture be good for 10 gal?

ssgtgonzo · 09/24/2012, 08:29 PM

IME, this is typical behavior for nems that go into a tank that's not mature enough. 3 months is typically not aged enough.

What kind of flow do you have?

Keep in mind the watts per gallon ratio is not effective to determine adequacy of light. 20w is hardly anything, in a 30g, I'd suggest a 150w mh at minimum. But, since it's not had that bright for some time, you will have to do a SLOW acclimation to any significant source of light.

Your nem is not long for this world in its current tank conditions. Good luck, I hope you save this, it's a beautiful specimen!

rssjsb · 09/25/2012, 10:01 AM

I agree that your anemone won't make it 3 months under this lighting. Watts per gallon isn't a good metric. Tank size is only relevant in relation to how deep the tank is. In any event, 36 watts will not be enough even over a 10 gallon tank.

The bottom line is that you need to return the anemone or get your light up to par.

You don't need metal halides to keep BTAs, but you do need to have intense lighting. There are T5 or LED fixtures you could put over a 30 gallon tank that would be just fine, but you will need to make a more substantial investment than a cheap two-bulb fixture to keep any anemone happy. If money is an issue, you can buy something used or get a DIY kit from a number of vendors.

aydemir · 09/25/2012, 10:54 AM

Sorry guys I havent been completely honest, tank is actually a 5.5 gal, I just knew you would be ****ed about it...But I am relocating to a new tank soon, hopefully a 29g biocube.
Anemone today, finally figured out the right white balance for taking pictures (phone)

Also, I mentioned earlier that nitrates were high, the anemone is doing fine, but my clownfish is resting at the bottom and breathing heavily, (nitrates were 20ppm because a shrimp had died ...stupid hydrometer gave me a false reading

)
I did a 50% WC yesterday and am going to do a 50% today (gradual changes), but will the clown recover? It is an ocellaris

aydemir · 09/25/2012, 11:00 AM

btw would this fixture be good for a 10 gal?
http://www.petsandponds.com/en/aquar...p17638739.html

ssgtgonzo · 09/25/2012, 11:36 AM

Not upset, it is your tank and animals afterall! The clown sounds like its on its way out, sorry to say. Do you have a hospital tank? Hard to say what is the matter, though 5.5g is probably on the smaller side of how big a tank clowns need. Getting your salinity is something you cant really do without. If that is wrong then there are probably other things wrong...please conduct the battery of tests to id what else may be out of whack. Did you ever mention your water movement? A 5.5g doesnt have much surface area, so you will need suface disturbance to ensure the proper amount of oxygen is being transferred to the water. Do be wary about the nem...if it goes, that is not a big enough aquarium to dillute its wastes...it could bomb your tank really quick.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk 2

ssgtgonzo · 09/25/2012, 11:38 AM

And when it comes to lighting, you will typically get what you pay for. Marineland leds are very low quality and do best for refugium applications. I will say i think it would be better than what you have currently. Good luck!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk 2

aydemir · 09/25/2012, 01:28 PM

Ok thanks for the advice. I thought the water movement was passable, Im using the power filter the tank came with (90gph) and a pico evolution pump (160gph). Also, the nitrates were high because the shrimp had died...at 20+ppm, now down to 10. Hopefully the clown does pull through, but I will definitely purchase a refractometer. Hydrometer is too sketchy

Mr. Bill · 09/26/2012, 05:59 PM

1) A sg of 1.025 - 1.026 is ideal for corals and inverts. 1.027 isn't high enough to kill anything.

2) 20ppm nitrates isn't lethal to anything but the most delicate sps corals. Fish are the least affected, being able to tolerate 50ppm+.

Had your sg been at 1.024 and then risen, that could've killed the shrimp as they're very sensitive to changes in parameters. You also had measurable ammonia which may have damaged the clown's gills.

As for lighting for the nem, if you want something inexpensive that you can control with a $5 timer from Walmart, check out the RapidLED PAR 38 bulb. One should be plenty for a 5.5g cube.

BTW, the nem is looking better, but definitely needs more light.

09/23/2012, 09:43 AM	#1
aydemir Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Canada Posts: 306	Sick anemone? :( I got a new bta 2 days ago, and today it looked deflated, and I saw stringy things coming off the foot of the anemone. It also wouldnt accept food, and there are white streaks around its mouth. The mouth however is not gaping open. The first picture is from yesterday, it was looking good, the tips were bubbled and it was fully inflated. It also accepted food readily (mysis shrimp). today: Here is the foot, that stringy thing is coming from the foot on the other side, is it rot?

09/24/2012, 07:19 PM	#13
ssgtgonzo Entacmaea Enthusiast Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: columbus, ohio Posts: 387	The streaks may be part of the nem's coloration...so it's not necessarily a bad thing. How old is your setup? __________________ 125 mixed reef, 30 BTA prop tank...all tied to the same 150 sump. 90 aggressive tank...30 sump 29 maxi mini garden "Life is hard, it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne

09/24/2012, 07:36 PM	#14
rssjsb Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 3,243	Those streaks are normal for BTAs. It looks a lot better. Sometimes they shrink like that after feeding or when they're acclimating to a new tank Having said that, did I read right that you've only got 20 watts of light over this tank? That's not enough light for your anemone. And if it's 50/50, half is actinic, which means that you've only got 10 watts in a spectrum that's useful for photosynthesis. Is this a QT tank? I know you said you were upgrading, but I wouldn't keep him under those lights for very long. __________________ Robin

09/24/2012, 07:41 PM	#16
rssjsb Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 3,243	36 watts isn't really enough either. How big is your new tank? __________________ Robin

09/24/2012, 08:29 PM	#18
ssgtgonzo Entacmaea Enthusiast Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: columbus, ohio Posts: 387	IME, this is typical behavior for nems that go into a tank that's not mature enough. 3 months is typically not aged enough. What kind of flow do you have? Keep in mind the watts per gallon ratio is not effective to determine adequacy of light. 20w is hardly anything, in a 30g, I'd suggest a 150w mh at minimum. But, since it's not had that bright for some time, you will have to do a SLOW acclimation to any significant source of light. Your nem is not long for this world in its current tank conditions. Good luck, I hope you save this, it's a beautiful specimen! __________________ 125 mixed reef, 30 BTA prop tank...all tied to the same 150 sump. 90 aggressive tank...30 sump 29 maxi mini garden "Life is hard, it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne

09/23/2012, 09:49 AM	#2
aydemir Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Canada Posts: 306	Update: Shot of the mouth, it was after I attempted to feed it mysis, so maybe that is why it is puckered?

09/23/2012, 10:13 AM	#3
aydemir Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Canada Posts: 306	Another update, its been about 20 minutes since i attempted to feed it mysis, maybe that is why it is balled up. The stringy bits on the left, and on the filter intake (rot?) is the stuff I was talking about earlier

09/23/2012, 10:34 AM	#4
aydemir Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Canada Posts: 306	Right now the tentacles are not visible anymore, they are inside its foot I guess, anybody know what is happening?

09/23/2012, 10:35 AM	#5
Mr. Bill Native Floridian Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Top of the Bay Posts: 256	Can you post current parameters (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, temp, SG)? What type of lighting and how much flow do you have? Also, how did you acclimate, and for how long?

09/23/2012, 10:44 AM	#6
aydemir Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Canada Posts: 306	Ammonia: 0.25 ppm (was 0 yesterday :s) nitrite: 0 nitrate: 5-10ppm (might be over 10 it is hard to tell with my test kit) pH: 8.0 SG: 1.023-1.025 (hydrometer read 1.024 but is +/- 0.001) temp: 25 degrees C 20W coralife 50/50 bulb power filter for up to 10 gal, and a pico evolution pump (up to 160gph) drip acclimated for an hour

09/23/2012, 11:00 AM	#7
Mr. Bill Native Floridian Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Top of the Bay Posts: 256	Nems will frequently deflate or close to exchange water or expel waste. They also develop slime around the foot occasionally, which may shed in strings. It looks like it may be having a little difficulty adjusting, although feeding so soon may be the reason (one should wait at least a week). It also may have regurgitated the food, which could elevate the ammonia. If you have Prime, I'd suggest using it to detoxify the ammonia for the benefit of everything in the tank. Also, a 10% WC or two will help reduce ammonia and nitrates. The nem may take a few days, but it could still make a full recovery. Just keep a close eye on it. If it loses it's footing and/or the mouth starts gaping, you may need to pull it out.

09/23/2012, 11:04 AM	#8
aydemir Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Canada Posts: 306	Ok, thanks so much for the advice. Unfortunately I dont have prime. I will do a WC right away, maybe another later, or tomorrow. The tank is small, so that is probably why the waste has built up so high in only a day. Relocating to a bigger tank soon. Is it normal for the tentacles to go completely inside the foot? There are no tentacles visible right now.

09/23/2012, 11:14 AM	#9
Mr. Bill Native Floridian Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Top of the Bay Posts: 256	Yes. I've seen that numerous times, even with perfectly healthy nems that were just exchanging water, etc.

09/23/2012, 11:17 AM	#10
aydemir Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Canada Posts: 306	Ok, Ill update tomorrow after the water changes, thanks for the help

09/23/2012, 11:18 AM	#11
Mr. Bill Native Floridian Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Top of the Bay Posts: 256	No problem. Good luck!

09/24/2012, 09:06 AM	#12
aydemir Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Canada Posts: 306	Update: After a 10% water change yesterday, I noticed salinity was 1.027! Stupid hydrometer, Im definitely going to purchase a refractometer. Im now slowly diluting back to 1.024, pic of the nem: clownfish is breathing heavily and swims vertically for a second or two ...is this because of the salinity or not enough oxygen? The other water paremeters are acceptable. I have a 160gph pico evolution pump, and a 90gph power filter, so I thought that would be good enough for water movement/aeration. edit: And the white streaks around the mouth of the nem, is that normal?

09/24/2012, 07:38 PM	#15
aydemir Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Canada Posts: 306	Yeah Im upgrading the tank along with the lighting, plan on getting an 18" Nova T5HO light fixture, 2 18 watt bulbs, is that good enough? Setup is about 3 months

09/24/2012, 07:56 PM	#17
aydemir Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Canada Posts: 306	Hopefully 30+, would that same fixture be good for 10 gal?

09/25/2012, 10:01 AM	#19
rssjsb Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 3,243	I agree that your anemone won't make it 3 months under this lighting. Watts per gallon isn't a good metric. Tank size is only relevant in relation to how deep the tank is. In any event, 36 watts will not be enough even over a 10 gallon tank. The bottom line is that you need to return the anemone or get your light up to par. You don't need metal halides to keep BTAs, but you do need to have intense lighting. There are T5 or LED fixtures you could put over a 30 gallon tank that would be just fine, but you will need to make a more substantial investment than a cheap two-bulb fixture to keep any anemone happy. If money is an issue, you can buy something used or get a DIY kit from a number of vendors. __________________ Robin

09/25/2012, 10:54 AM	#20
aydemir Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Canada Posts: 306	Sorry guys I havent been completely honest, tank is actually a 5.5 gal, I just knew you would be ****ed about it...But I am relocating to a new tank soon, hopefully a 29g biocube. Anemone today, finally figured out the right white balance for taking pictures (phone) Also, I mentioned earlier that nitrates were high, the anemone is doing fine, but my clownfish is resting at the bottom and breathing heavily, (nitrates were 20ppm because a shrimp had died ...stupid hydrometer gave me a false reading ) I did a 50% WC yesterday and am going to do a 50% today (gradual changes), but will the clown recover? It is an ocellaris

09/25/2012, 11:00 AM	#21
aydemir Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Canada Posts: 306	btw would this fixture be good for a 10 gal? http://www.petsandponds.com/en/aquar...p17638739.html

09/25/2012, 11:36 AM	#22
ssgtgonzo Entacmaea Enthusiast Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: columbus, ohio Posts: 387	Not upset, it is your tank and animals afterall! The clown sounds like its on its way out, sorry to say. Do you have a hospital tank? Hard to say what is the matter, though 5.5g is probably on the smaller side of how big a tank clowns need. Getting your salinity is something you cant really do without. If that is wrong then there are probably other things wrong...please conduct the battery of tests to id what else may be out of whack. Did you ever mention your water movement? A 5.5g doesnt have much surface area, so you will need suface disturbance to ensure the proper amount of oxygen is being transferred to the water. Do be wary about the nem...if it goes, that is not a big enough aquarium to dillute its wastes...it could bomb your tank really quick. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk 2 __________________ 125 mixed reef, 30 BTA prop tank...all tied to the same 150 sump. 90 aggressive tank...30 sump 29 maxi mini garden "Life is hard, it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne

09/25/2012, 11:38 AM	#23
ssgtgonzo Entacmaea Enthusiast Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: columbus, ohio Posts: 387	And when it comes to lighting, you will typically get what you pay for. Marineland leds are very low quality and do best for refugium applications. I will say i think it would be better than what you have currently. Good luck! Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk 2 __________________ 125 mixed reef, 30 BTA prop tank...all tied to the same 150 sump. 90 aggressive tank...30 sump 29 maxi mini garden "Life is hard, it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne

09/25/2012, 01:28 PM	#24
aydemir Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Canada Posts: 306	Ok thanks for the advice. I thought the water movement was passable, Im using the power filter the tank came with (90gph) and a pico evolution pump (160gph). Also, the nitrates were high because the shrimp had died...at 20+ppm, now down to 10. Hopefully the clown does pull through, but I will definitely purchase a refractometer. Hydrometer is too sketchy

09/26/2012, 05:59 PM	#25
Mr. Bill Native Floridian Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Top of the Bay Posts: 256	1) A sg of 1.025 - 1.026 is ideal for corals and inverts. 1.027 isn't high enough to kill anything. 2) 20ppm nitrates isn't lethal to anything but the most delicate sps corals. Fish are the least affected, being able to tolerate 50ppm+. Had your sg been at 1.024 and then risen, that could've killed the shrimp as they're very sensitive to changes in parameters. You also had measurable ammonia which may have damaged the clown's gills. As for lighting for the nem, if you want something inexpensive that you can control with a $5 timer from Walmart, check out the RapidLED PAR 38 bulb. One should be plenty for a 5.5g cube. BTW, the nem is looking better, but definitely needs more light.