6ft 150 closed loop questions

JW65 · 10/23/2012, 08:10 PM

I need some advice on a closed loop idea.

I am going to be setting up a 6ft 150 (6ft long 2ft wide and 20 inches high) soon and I am wanting to have a closed loop to try for a cleaner look (power heads are a hassle and take up a lot of space). I plan on having a 4 ft semi coast to coast over flow box in the top middle of the back. I plan to have a 1 inch SCWD on the return pump (mag 12 or similar) going to either side of the over flow box. I will also have a Tunze 6012 wave box on it.

So my questions are:

1. How many inlets should I have or should I just have one big one?
2. How many outputs should I have? Should I use an Oceans Motions and have full flow going to one output at a time? Locline? If yes what is the best way to end it(flow accelerator or a wide flare nozzle or just a straight nozzle)?
3. With other other flow in the tank what size pump for closed loop? Any recommendations on a good low wattage pump?

I really appreciate any help.

JW65 · 10/24/2012, 07:55 PM

Anyone have any suggestions?

Andrew D · 10/24/2012, 09:42 PM

I have a closed loop on my 150 of different dimensions (72*18*28). I tapped the back wall three times for the inlets, however, had to close one of these off with a ball valve because I was getting bubbles. In retrospect, I don't think I needed more than 1 as long as the hole is sufficiently sized. This feeds a reeflo barracuda, which is more than enough power for me and in fact I've had to throttle it down using a gate valve. This pump feeds by frag tank and my refugium as well. The return is a 1 inch manifold along the top with 8 1/2 inch nozzles each of which is controlled with another ball valve for flow and 45's for direction. This gives me a lot of control over the flow, which I find helpful as I'm always tinkering in my tank and moving things around. I love my closed loop, although I know it is a power hog.

Am in the planning stages of a 300DD upgrade, which will include another closed loop but this one returning through the bottom. I find the manifold makes it really difficult to work in the tank, especially because of it's dimensions and my overflow boxes currently.

JW65 · 10/25/2012, 07:44 PM

What size inlets do you have that you needed to close one off?

tkeracer619 · 10/25/2012, 08:01 PM

Multiple inlets are a must. Use schedule 80 bulkeads. No such thing as a low wattage closed loop. In 5 years you could have paid for a pair of mp60s with all the power used.

I love the look hate the power bill.

Aquatron · 10/25/2012, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JW65

I need some advice on a closed loop idea.

I am going to be setting up a 6ft 150 (6ft long 2ft wide and 20 inches high) soon and I am wanting to have a closed loop to try for a cleaner look (power heads are a hassle and take up a lot of space). I plan on having a 4 ft semi coast to coast over flow box in the top middle of the back. I plan to have a 1 inch SCWD on the return pump (mag 12 or similar) going to either side of the over flow box. I will also have a Tunze 6012 wave box on it.

So my questions are:

1. How many inlets should I have or should I just have one big one?
2. How many outputs should I have? Should I use an Oceans Motions and have full flow going to one output at a time? Locline? If yes what is the best way to end it(flow accelerator or a wide flare nozzle or just a straight nozzle)?
3. With other other flow in the tank what size pump for closed loop? Any recommendations on a good low wattage pump?

I really appreciate any help.

Hello,

I have eight returns with my close loop one inlet per pump with four outlets. I have a eight foot tank so with a six foot i would do one and four/six(if you can do front top corners) with close loop. Reeflow pumps work really well and great CS. I am not a fan of Oceans Motion.

hk855 · 10/25/2012, 10:17 PM

I've been looking at a closed loop for my new setup in the planning stages and from what I've seen reeflow is the most power conservative followed by dolphin. One inlet is usually good but your going to need a 2", maybe 1.5", bulkhead and decent screen around it or else it will trap fish, usually in the back of the tank. For returns your going to want a lot of bulkheads in the right places or else it's not going to end up looking clean. The best I've seen is 4-6 across the front, maybe in the back corners too, facing up and back at a 45 angle to direct flow toward the rock work. Being in front lockline and flow adductors aren't a very clean look. Also adductors don't work much at low pressure values so you end up restricting flow to up pressure to get them to work and end up with the same flow in the end. Also you need a high pressure pump which all use 2x the power and cost 2x as much to buy. For efficiency simplicity is king, go with short distances, very few turns and oversized pipe size, and no lock line, flexible but very restrictive. Also a ball valve and unions somewhere on the in and out of the pump lines is nice to service the pump.

I had a 180 with similar dimensions and a dart closed loop. If I did it again this is what I would do. 2" bulkhead centered in the back or off set to one side. Mount the pump on the back inside of the stand, inlet facing up and outlet facing front, short straight shot for the inlet, place ball valve before inlet. Go straight out of the pump with 2" PVC, add ball valve and union. Place a t at the end to split the water left right inline with your bulkheads in the front. Keep running 2" and place a 2"x1" t bellow the bulkheads you want along the front. 4 1" bulkheads is probably ok but given the difficulty to add more I would do 6. With this situation you have no restriction going in and two turns on the exit to each bulkhead, but the return plumbing would take up most of the cabinet. Add 2 45s to bring up the output at a slant and it's much better space wise. With a reeflow dart power is about the same as 2 mp60s but $500 less. If you have the money go with vortechs if you don't remember to stay away from high wattage pumps and build your system around your closed loop plumbing not the other way around, otherwise the electric bill will be high and you won't get max flow from your pump and end up buying power heads to make up for it.

JW65 · 10/28/2012, 07:12 PM

These suggestions really help with my planning a lot!!

Where is a good place to get the screens for over the intake bulkheads?

Andrew D · 10/28/2012, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JW65

What size inlets do you have that you needed to close one off?

Sorry, been off the site for a bit. My inlets are 1.5 inch, each controlled with a ball valve. They all tap into a 1.5 inch pipe that goes to a reeflo barracuda. Don't know why, but I had air bubbles early on which stopped when I closed the one farthest from the pump. Realized I didn't need it so never investigated further.

Andrew

Ron Reefman · 10/29/2012, 05:14 AM

JW65,

I have a 180g DT with a CL (Reeflo pump, Ocean Motion4 and 3 revolution heads and 1 nozzle) and a little Giant 2400gph sump pump to a SCWD and to 'spray bars' in the tank. So I have some experience.

I'm helping a friend with a 150g of different dimentions than yours (4' x 2' x 30" I think). And she wants to do pretty much the same thing you want to do. She has a reeflo for a CL pump and wants to run it thru a SCWD. She will have a 900gph Little Giant in the 40g sump. We are planing a coast to coast overflow. The overflow will only go 1/3 of the way down the back of the tank and the bottom of the overflow will extend out 1" beyond the front of the overflow box creating a lip or ledge so she can put corals up there.

I plan on 1 drain to the sump with 1 more as an emergency backup, 1 drain to the CL, 1 return from sump and 2 from the CL as it will have a SCWD. So along the back of the tank it will be:
CL return to tank, drain to sump, sump return to tank, emergency drain to sump, CL return to tank, drain to CL.

The one concern is the drain to the CL needs to be pretty big (1.5" or 2"). So we are also considering doing 2 drain lines to the CL Reeflo pump and tying them together before the pump (something like two 1" drains with 900gph flow from the tank, tied into a 1.5" line with 2100gph flow before it gets to the pump). This would end up with holes along the back like this:
CL drain to pump, CL return to tank, drain to sump, return form sump to tank, emergency drain to sump, CL return to tank, CL drain to pump.

So your questions are:

1. How many inlets should I have or should I just have one big one?
I don't know what you mean by 'inlets'? Do you mean returns to the tank or drains to the pump? If you mean drain lines, you want 1 to the sump, 1 for an emergency drain to the sump and 1 (maybe 2) for the CL pump.

2. How many outputs should I have? Should I use an Oceans Motions and have full flow going to one output at a time? Locline? If yes what is the best way to end it(flow accelerator or a wide flare nozzle or just a straight nozzle)?
I assume here you mean returns to the DT? I use an OM4 and it has run 2+ years without my having to touch it. I shut it off every nighth for 6 hours to calm the tank down a bit. I still have a 2400gph sump pump creating flow in the tank. And I use the SCWD on my sump pump return to the tank and each side runs to a 'spraybar' that covers half of the back glass behind the rock wall spraying out through the rocks.

3. With other other flow in the tank what size pump for closed loop? Any recommendations on a good low wattage pump?
I don't know the Tunze 6012, so I don't know what that is doing for you? I'd use your Mag 18 with the SCWD in the return from the sump and get a Reeflo and OM4 for the CL. If you don't want to do the OM4 consider just another SCWD on the CL and split the SCWD output into 2 lines from each side and arrange your 4 returns where you want in the tank.

JW65 · 10/30/2012, 08:48 PM

Thank you everyone for the help. I think I have a pretty good idea now of what I want to do. The back of my tank is going to look like a piece of Swiss cheese haha. But I am still not able to find the bulkhead screens for over the sch 80 bulkheads. Does anyone know where I can get some?

shafman1 · 11/29/2012, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JW65

Thank you everyone for the help. I think I have a pretty good idea now of what I want to do. The back of my tank is going to look like a piece of Swiss cheese haha. But I am still not able to find the bulkhead screens for over the sch 80 bulkheads. Does anyone know where I can get some?

I have schedule 80 bulkheads. The schedule 40 screens/strainers work just fine. They have slip and screw in type depending on your bulkheads. I'm in the process of setting up a 540 gallon DT. Used to have a 125. Will post pics when it's up and running.

10/23/2012, 08:10 PM	#1
JW65 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Catawissa, PA Posts: 124	6ft 150 closed loop questions I need some advice on a closed loop idea. I am going to be setting up a 6ft 150 (6ft long 2ft wide and 20 inches high) soon and I am wanting to have a closed loop to try for a cleaner look (power heads are a hassle and take up a lot of space). I plan on having a 4 ft semi coast to coast over flow box in the top middle of the back. I plan to have a 1 inch SCWD on the return pump (mag 12 or similar) going to either side of the over flow box. I will also have a Tunze 6012 wave box on it. So my questions are: 1. How many inlets should I have or should I just have one big one? 2. How many outputs should I have? Should I use an Oceans Motions and have full flow going to one output at a time? Locline? If yes what is the best way to end it(flow accelerator or a wide flare nozzle or just a straight nozzle)? 3. With other other flow in the tank what size pump for closed loop? Any recommendations on a good low wattage pump? I really appreciate any help.

10/25/2012, 08:01 PM	#5
tkeracer619 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Westminster, CO Posts: 17,289	Multiple inlets are a must. Use schedule 80 bulkeads. No such thing as a low wattage closed loop. In 5 years you could have paid for a pair of mp60s with all the power used. I love the look hate the power bill. __________________ Hobby Experience: 9200ish gallons, 26 skimmers, and a handful of Kent Scrapers. Current Tank: Vortech Powered 600G SPS Tank w/ 100gal frag tank & 100g Sump. RK2-RK10 Skimmer. ReefAngel. Radium 20k.

10/25/2012, 10:17 PM	#7
hk855 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 297	I've been looking at a closed loop for my new setup in the planning stages and from what I've seen reeflow is the most power conservative followed by dolphin. One inlet is usually good but your going to need a 2", maybe 1.5", bulkhead and decent screen around it or else it will trap fish, usually in the back of the tank. For returns your going to want a lot of bulkheads in the right places or else it's not going to end up looking clean. The best I've seen is 4-6 across the front, maybe in the back corners too, facing up and back at a 45 angle to direct flow toward the rock work. Being in front lockline and flow adductors aren't a very clean look. Also adductors don't work much at low pressure values so you end up restricting flow to up pressure to get them to work and end up with the same flow in the end. Also you need a high pressure pump which all use 2x the power and cost 2x as much to buy. For efficiency simplicity is king, go with short distances, very few turns and oversized pipe size, and no lock line, flexible but very restrictive. Also a ball valve and unions somewhere on the in and out of the pump lines is nice to service the pump. I had a 180 with similar dimensions and a dart closed loop. If I did it again this is what I would do. 2" bulkhead centered in the back or off set to one side. Mount the pump on the back inside of the stand, inlet facing up and outlet facing front, short straight shot for the inlet, place ball valve before inlet. Go straight out of the pump with 2" PVC, add ball valve and union. Place a t at the end to split the water left right inline with your bulkheads in the front. Keep running 2" and place a 2"x1" t bellow the bulkheads you want along the front. 4 1" bulkheads is probably ok but given the difficulty to add more I would do 6. With this situation you have no restriction going in and two turns on the exit to each bulkhead, but the return plumbing would take up most of the cabinet. Add 2 45s to bring up the output at a slant and it's much better space wise. With a reeflow dart power is about the same as 2 mp60s but $500 less. If you have the money go with vortechs if you don't remember to stay away from high wattage pumps and build your system around your closed loop plumbing not the other way around, otherwise the electric bill will be high and you won't get max flow from your pump and end up buying power heads to make up for it. __________________ For some dumb reason I tore down my tank. New goal, plan, build and conquer the ultimate sps nano. Current Tank Info: Taking a break, ultimate nano in planing

10/29/2012, 05:14 AM	#10
Ron Reefman Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Cape Coral, FL Posts: 10,431	JW65, I have a 180g DT with a CL (Reeflo pump, Ocean Motion4 and 3 revolution heads and 1 nozzle) and a little Giant 2400gph sump pump to a SCWD and to 'spray bars' in the tank. So I have some experience. I'm helping a friend with a 150g of different dimentions than yours (4' x 2' x 30" I think). And she wants to do pretty much the same thing you want to do. She has a reeflo for a CL pump and wants to run it thru a SCWD. She will have a 900gph Little Giant in the 40g sump. We are planing a coast to coast overflow. The overflow will only go 1/3 of the way down the back of the tank and the bottom of the overflow will extend out 1" beyond the front of the overflow box creating a lip or ledge so she can put corals up there. I plan on 1 drain to the sump with 1 more as an emergency backup, 1 drain to the CL, 1 return from sump and 2 from the CL as it will have a SCWD. So along the back of the tank it will be: CL return to tank, drain to sump, sump return to tank, emergency drain to sump, CL return to tank, drain to CL. The one concern is the drain to the CL needs to be pretty big (1.5" or 2"). So we are also considering doing 2 drain lines to the CL Reeflo pump and tying them together before the pump (something like two 1" drains with 900gph flow from the tank, tied into a 1.5" line with 2100gph flow before it gets to the pump). This would end up with holes along the back like this: CL drain to pump, CL return to tank, drain to sump, return form sump to tank, emergency drain to sump, CL return to tank, CL drain to pump. So your questions are: 1. How many inlets should I have or should I just have one big one? I don't know what you mean by 'inlets'? Do you mean returns to the tank or drains to the pump? If you mean drain lines, you want 1 to the sump, 1 for an emergency drain to the sump and 1 (maybe 2) for the CL pump. 2. How many outputs should I have? Should I use an Oceans Motions and have full flow going to one output at a time? Locline? If yes what is the best way to end it(flow accelerator or a wide flare nozzle or just a straight nozzle)? I assume here you mean returns to the DT? I use an OM4 and it has run 2+ years without my having to touch it. I shut it off every nighth for 6 hours to calm the tank down a bit. I still have a 2400gph sump pump creating flow in the tank. And I use the SCWD on my sump pump return to the tank and each side runs to a 'spraybar' that covers half of the back glass behind the rock wall spraying out through the rocks. 3. With other other flow in the tank what size pump for closed loop? Any recommendations on a good low wattage pump? I don't know the Tunze 6012, so I don't know what that is doing for you? I'd use your Mag 18 with the SCWD in the return from the sump and get a Reeflo and OM4 for the CL. If you don't want to do the OM4 consider just another SCWD on the CL and split the SCWD output into 2 lines from each side and arrange your 4 returns where you want in the tank. __________________ The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it. (Neil deGrasse Tyson) Visit my build thread http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2593017 Last edited by Ron Reefman; 10/29/2012 at 05:19 AM.

10/24/2012, 07:55 PM	#2
JW65 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Catawissa, PA Posts: 124	Anyone have any suggestions?

10/24/2012, 09:42 PM	#3
Andrew D Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada Posts: 356	I have a closed loop on my 150 of different dimensions (721828). I tapped the back wall three times for the inlets, however, had to close one of these off with a ball valve because I was getting bubbles. In retrospect, I don't think I needed more than 1 as long as the hole is sufficiently sized. This feeds a reeflo barracuda, which is more than enough power for me and in fact I've had to throttle it down using a gate valve. This pump feeds by frag tank and my refugium as well. The return is a 1 inch manifold along the top with 8 1/2 inch nozzles each of which is controlled with another ball valve for flow and 45's for direction. This gives me a lot of control over the flow, which I find helpful as I'm always tinkering in my tank and moving things around. I love my closed loop, although I know it is a power hog. Am in the planning stages of a 300DD upgrade, which will include another closed loop but this one returning through the bottom. I find the manifold makes it really difficult to work in the tank, especially because of it's dimensions and my overflow boxes currently.

10/25/2012, 07:44 PM	#4
JW65 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Catawissa, PA Posts: 124	What size inlets do you have that you needed to close one off?

10/28/2012, 07:12 PM	#8
JW65 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Catawissa, PA Posts: 124	These suggestions really help with my planning a lot!! Where is a good place to get the screens for over the intake bulkheads?

10/30/2012, 08:48 PM	#11
JW65 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Catawissa, PA Posts: 124	Thank you everyone for the help. I think I have a pretty good idea now of what I want to do. The back of my tank is going to look like a piece of Swiss cheese haha. But I am still not able to find the bulkhead screens for over the sch 80 bulkheads. Does anyone know where I can get some?