ATO Reservoir Problem

[DaytonaJoe]

I use a redundant float valve system with an aqualifter pump and a 5 gallon tank of RO/DI to keep my tank topped off. I recently upgraded the size of my display tank but the ATO reservoir was still 5g, so I wanted to upgrade that as well since it was only lasting me a couple of days. I bought a food grade container about 14''x14'' wide x maybe 28'' tall. My initial setup had the surgical tubing coming out of a hole near the top of the sealed reservoir and down to the pump, then back to the sump. Of course the problem there is that the first time that pump activates, it begins a siphon which won't stop until the RO runs dry. Next, I tried drilling a hole and installing a bulkhead with a barb adapter for the tubing. This time the water pressure in the ATO reservoir forces water into the sump any time the water level is higher in the reservoir. I also tried routing the tube from the bulkhead vertically 20 inches or so and then back down, to see if it would solve the water pressure problem. It still allows water through. It seems like for this to work I might need a pump that seals off completely when not active so it wouldn't allow a siphon. Is that my only solution, does it exist? What else could I do?

[HowieB]

I have a 15 gallon ATO container. The hose comes out the top of the ATO container and goes into the sump. My hose is 1/2" diameter. I cut a small hole in the hose about one inch below the top of the ATO container. When the pump goes on, most of the water gets pumped into the sump while a little bit dribbles out of the hole I cut. When the pump goes off, air enters the hole and breaks the siphon. Been two years without a problem.

[danil]

Check out this thread and my post for more options.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...9#post20845639

[DaytonaJoe]

Originally Posted by danil

Check out this thread and my post for more options.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...9#post20845639

Hey thanks for the replies, both of you! This thread led me to peristaltic pumps, I think that is what I'll use to solve the issue.

[Psirex]

Put the pump above the ato and sump water level? I use a JBJ with Tom's aqua lifter and have it like I mentioned and there is no back siphon...

[DaytonaJoe]

Originally Posted by Psirex

Put the pump above the ato and sump water level? I use a JBJ with Tom's aqua lifter and have it like I mentioned and there is no back siphon...

Hey I thought I tried that, but I'll give it a shot right now and see if it saves me $70 bucks. Thanks man

[110galreef]

had same siphon issue when I set up my aqualifter ATO. Place pump justabove the water tank. suck water to pump then push it a bit. add a "T" pointing up. run a piece of hose up like 3-4 ft and then from other side of T continue to sump. the piece or hose going up is to high and water will never go up and come out, plus breaks and siphon but keeps aqualifter primed! ill send pic later. worked flawless for last 1.5 yrs.


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[danil]

Originally Posted by DaytonaJoe

Hey I thought I tried that, but I'll give it a shot right now and see if it saves me $70 bucks. Thanks man

peristaltic pump isn't perfect for ATO not mentioning it's expensive and requires some maintenance. Aqua Lifter Pump will do the work for $15 and electric valve ($25) will guard you from any siphon. And this system will work for years. Get two or three Aqua Lifter Pumps so you can throw one away when it starts losing power.

[110galreef]

even with the pump above the ATO container it wil create a siphon, here are the pics:

ATO resevoir(~30g), fill to the front left and the pump just above the resevoir.



Inside: PVC on bottom of black tube is just to weight it down to keep hose at bottom. Also can see the float shut off as a back up. I only fill the bin every 7 days. Also use manual shut off valve outside. Redundancy!! This prevents any accidental overlow and help minimize TDS creep by filling resevoir once a week, instead of everytime level drops below the float. But incase I forget or don't get to it when filling it wont over flow!!



Here is the T about 1 ft past the Aqualifter: The clear hose goes up to a height of about 6' above ground. No way the aqua lifter could ever pump tha high. The water never even enters, but just to be safe! The water continues on the clack pipe to sump.



Hope this helps

[Psirex]

Is the tube that feeds into your sump in the water? If so bring it just above the water surface.

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[Pool_shark]

I simply routed my ATO discharge tubing up the outside back of my tank hiden behind my overflow, zip tied the end to my stand pipe, and it discharges down into the overflow. Since the discharge point is 3' higher than the top of my ATO container, no siphon, and no overflow.

[dwa_jeff]

Originally Posted by Psirex

Is the tube that feeds into your sump in the water? If so bring it just above the water surface.

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2

This^^^^

Mine comes in about half an inch above the water surface. Never had a single problem.

[110galreef]

Remember the basics to a siphon or water levels will balance themselves out....

If the water level in th ATO resevoir is at anytime ABOVE the point of the ATO discharge it will drain the ATO resevoir till that point in a siphon regardless if the output is not submerged. Basic physics. That is why the air break I shown above is necassary.

However if your ATO resevoir is small or BELOW the point of discharge, no issues.

[Psirex]

Originally Posted by 110galreef

Remember the basics to a siphon or water levels will balance themselves out....

If the water level in th ATO resevoir is at anytime ABOVE the point of the ATO discharge it will drain the ATO resevoir till that point in a siphon regardless if the output is not submerged. Basic physics. That is why the air break I shown above is necassary.

However if your ATO resevoir is small or BELOW the point of discharge, no issues.

Just giving input as to how mine is setup. And I have had any issues with back siphoning

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[110galreef]

Originally Posted by Psirex

Just giving input as to how mine is setup. And I have had any issues with back siphoning

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Not being a bully!

Just throwing out the basics in general for all reading to keep in mind if setting up current or a future ATO setup to avoid any issues down the road.

just stating that since your hose is not in the water doesn't tell us if your ATO resevoir is above or below sump or where ever its going. Doesn't note if ATO water level is above draining pioint, etc.....

Lots of variables and like everything else in this hobby.....lots of different things work for one but not another or vice versa

Just trying to help!

[Psirex]

Originally Posted by 110galreef

Not being a bully!

Just throwing out the basics in general for all reading to keep in mind if setting up current or a future ATO setup to avoid any issues down the road.

just stating that since your hose is not in the water doesn't tell us if your ATO resevoir is above or below sump or where ever its going. Doesn't note if ATO water level is above draining pioint, etc.....

Lots of variables and like everything else in this hobby.....lots of different things work for one but not another or vice versa

Just trying to help!

Gotcha wasn't saying you were bullying didn't come across that way to me - my reservoir level is higher than my sump water level. The hose from the reservoir feed from about 2 inches from the bottom up to the top of the 5 gallon bucket where the pump sits then travels about 2-3 feet horizontally to my sump which is a 55 gallon tank where the water level is maybe half the height of the tank and the feed hose sits about 2 inches about that... Hope that help - can post pics later if need be.

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[rrasco]

I don't have an air break on mine. I just marked the ATO level to never be above the water level in the sump. My hose always stayed about an inch above the water level. I however just installed a kalk reactor in-line with my ATO which comes with a check valve for the ATO hose to prevent back siphoning. I'm not really a big fan of this though. Check valves fail.

And for conversations sake, a siphon will continue until the pressure equalizes in all connected containers. It's amazing the stuff you learn building these setups.

[kentuckyclowns]

If you move the pump higher than the reservoir and move the discharge out of the water in the sump (discharge not submerged), there is no physical way for a syphon to be created. Even with just the discharge out of the water, and above the reservoir, no way for a syphon to be created.

[Psirex]

Originally Posted by kentuckyclowns

If you move the pump higher than the reservoir and move the discharge out of the water in the sump (discharge not submerged), there is no physical way for a syphon to be created. Even with just the discharge out of the water, and above the reservoir, no way for a syphon to be created.

This^^^ was my thinking....

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[110galreef]

A siphon doesn't care where the pump is. Water levels will be evened out. When u gravel vac ur sand the hose goes above water line and the outlet is not submerged still holds a siphon. If a pump is in line its is the same thing.

But if ATO resevoir water level is below the sump a siphon can't be created to the sump. That is a sure win solution, but for larger resevoirs its not always possible. Also if ur using an aqualifter you can only put it only so high as it doesn't have much head.

In my situation the ATO resevoir is about 32" tall. The aqualifter is only good for like 36-40" i believe. So i can only have the pump a few inches above the ATO resevoir. The out put went down to my sump and emptied to a water level of about 12" just above the sump water level.

Every time the pump kicked on and then shut off when the water level in the ATO resevoir was above the sump level(12") the siphon continued until the ATO resevoir was at the same level as the sump. An air break as shown above was needed.

Maybe ur pump is high enuf relative to ur ato reservoir, the slop down to your sump is not much, and the hose is small enuf to create enuf back pressure to over come the siphon?