Made the switch: LED's to T5's. Best decision I've made!

[jlnielsen13]

Hello RC,

As the title suggests after 2 years of running the LED experiment I have gone back to t5's (for the first time). Before I had LED's I ran Metal Halide, and was happy besides the cost and heat. I have a mixed reef with softies, lps, sps, rbta, money plants, and 6 clams. Here is the most recent pic of my tank, I don't have one under the new t5's but will post soon:



I bought the Aqua Illumination Blue LED's excited about the new technology and programmability as well as not having to run a chiller and the decreased energy cost. Here were the results after almost 2 years:

-SPS- burnt at only 30% power.. Color bleached out.
-LPS- tissue quickly receeded and lost color.
Softies:
-mushrooms- extremely small in size compared to before, some bleached out.
-zoos: probably have over 5,000 polyps in the tank. Orange colored zoos showed no change. All other zoos went to a brown/green color.

Obviously I wasn't happy with the lights. I know some people who have had success with LED's but have heard more stories about them lacking something.

3 weeks with my new programmable ATI Sunpower 8 bulb t5 fixture results:
-SPS- coming back with increased polyp extension
-LPS- starting to color up and have the inflated look again.
-mushrooms- huge! especially my 50+ ricordea
-zoos- best change of all!! It has been one of my favorite reefing experiences to see the 100's of varieties of zoos I own "recolor" up to what they should look like. In just three weeks my zoos are back to normal.

Side note: My money plants turned white and almost copletely died under LED's. Some people found these plants the neatest thing in the tank and were sad to see them go. After the switch they are now growing back out of the "roots" that were still left on the rocks. This is pretty interesting as they are purely photosynthetic.

Observations: (personal not scientificly data driven)

LED's are just lacking something. I don't know if it is spectrum, or what I think the culprit is- UV . The t5's have made a dramatic, DRAMATIC, difference in just three weeks because my tank parameters were great, just was missing something lighting wise for the corals. When I supplied that again, through t5's, the tank took off- QUICKLY!

It has been amazing to see this transfermation. I really wanted my 2,500$ LED's to be the last light fixture I bought but they are not there yet. I hated that my tank was just surviving and not thriving or growing what-so-ever. I feel like I am back in the game again and am excited about the future.

Thanks,
JIM

[ReeferBatman]

Thanks for your thoughts! Good luck!

[gbru316]

Originally Posted by jlnielsen13

Hello RC,

As the title suggests after 2 years of running the LED experiment I have gone back to t5's (for the first time). Before I had LED's I ran Metal Halide, and was happy besides the cost and heat. I have a mixed reef with softies, lps, sps, rbta, money plants, and 6 clams. Here is the most recent pic of my tank, I don't have one under the new t5's but will post soon:



I bought the Aqua Illumination Blue LED's excited about the new technology and programmability as well as not having to run a chiller and the decreased energy cost. Here were the results after almost 2 years:

-SPS- burnt at only 30% power.. Color bleached out.
-LPS- tissue quickly receeded and lost color.
Softies:
-mushrooms- extremely small in size compared to before, some bleached out.
-zoos: probably have over 5,000 polyps in the tank. Orange colored zoos showed no change. All other zoos went to a brown/green color.

Obviously I wasn't happy with the lights. I know some people who have had success with LED's but have heard more stories about them lacking something.

3 weeks with my new programmable ATI Sunpower 8 bulb t5 fixture results:
-SPS- coming back with increased polyp extension
-LPS- starting to color up and have the inflated look again.
-mushrooms- huge! especially my 50+ ricordea
-zoos- best change of all!! It has been one of my favorite reefing experiences to see the 100's of varieties of zoos I own "recolor" up to what they should look like. In just three weeks my zoos are back to normal.

Side note: My money plants turned white and almost copletely died under LED's. Some people found these plants the neatest thing in the tank and were sad to see them go. After the switch they are now growing back out of the "roots" that were still left on the rocks. This is pretty interesting as they are purely photosynthetic.

Observations: (personal not scientificly data driven)

LED's are just lacking something. I don't know if it is spectrum, or what I think the culprit is- UV . The t5's have made a dramatic, DRAMATIC, difference in just three weeks because my tank parameters were great, just was missing something lighting wise for the corals. When I supplied that again, through t5's, the tank took off- QUICKLY!

It has been amazing to see this transfermation. I really wanted my 2,500$ LED's to be the last light fixture I bought but they are not there yet. I hated that my tank was just surviving and not thriving or growing what-so-ever. I feel like I am back in the game again and am excited about the future.

Thanks,
JIM

Thanks for sharing, you aren't alone in your experience.

If you want a plug-and-play lighting system, stick with T-5 or MH. LED's, as you've found, aren't quite there yet.

[phinfan8]

Did you sell your ai's?

[jlnielsen13]

Yes,

Sold 9 units this past month total. I hope they see better results! I was able to get 300$+ per unit but I paid 500$ each for them so I did loose a lot on the experience!!

PS- GO PHINS! Can't wait for the game tonight!! I was at the Indi game 2 weeks ago and watch everygame through sunday ticket in illinois! Been a huge fan since marino-duper-clayton!!

JIM

Originally Posted by phinfan8

Did you sell your ai's?

[d2mini]

Doesn't surprise me about the sol blues.

Interesting that you like the look of T5's after coming from MH. Is it the color? That's the only thing I can think of. But you lose the shimmer and par. My favorite lighting from a look and growth aspect is MH with blue and purple T5's for color supplementation.

[FDAWG]

Nice Tank. Thanks for sharing your experience.

[a.browning]

Glad to hear things are coloring back up! Nothing beats a good T5 fixture, especially ATI. LEDs (or at least the sols) are not yet where they need to be in my opinion. I actually get a good amount of shimmer from my ATI fixture with just 2 bulbs on. Nowhere near MH of course, but it's there!

[mussel and hate]

Congratz! I'm glad your tank is recovering, It looks beautiful.

I think there are different LEDs just as there are different T5s and MHs. A general indictment of LEDs probably isn't warranted. I don't think it's fair to say LEDs are missing something, perhaps it would be more accurate to say your LEDs were missing something and had too much of another thing. Bleaching hints at photo-shock. Perhaps too much PAR and all ~450ish nm.

[gbru316]

Originally Posted by mussel and hate

Congratz! I'm glad your tank is recovering, It looks beautiful.

I think there are different LEDs just as there are different T5s and MHs. A general indictment of LEDs probably isn't warranted. I don't think it's fair to say LEDs are missing something, perhaps it would be more accurate to say your LEDs were missing something and had too much of another thing. Bleaching hints at photo-shock. Perhaps too much PAR and all ~450ish nm.

I have a hypothesis about the bolded parts, specifically, the link between certain wavelengths missing in many LED array's that are known to be vital to zooxanthellae photo-regulation.

If you're interested, google "xanthophyll cycle"

[phinfan8]

Been a fan since 1970. Taking a beating the last few years,lived in New England all my life.

[jaa1456]

I'm going back to MH on the new tank, it will have 4 t5's as well. Can't wait to make the switch back.

[rwb500]

every downside of LED's that you mentioned is a symptom of too much light. At this point in the development of reef LED's, people everywhere are having great success with them. We are well past the point where one person's story should have any effect on our outlook. It seems like you weren't able to get them to work, but others have. I am glad that you found something to work for your tank, because that is what really matters.

edit - your tank is amazing by the way.

[jlnielsen13]

Yes,

Your quote was the reason I put in paranthesis (personal not scientific with data). I did not run any type of experiment here and did mention that "lots of people are having success" . I was running these at no more than 30% power so I don't think I was blasting everything with to much light. Maybe I was but would be surprised at 30%. I think AI's are one of the best LED's as well. I know people also like Ecotech and others but these weren't DIY LED's gone bad.

I agree that this is my personal story and tried to reflect that in the post so people weren't offended but I do think personal accounts are important in this hobby- I have learned a lot from individual's experiences. I really do think the lack of UV is a big deal and from personal experience I really think they are lacking something.

Thanks for all the nice comments on the tank. Next weekend the tank gets moved into a 140 gallon custom DSA tank with a custom built stand and canopy from a real furniture builder (columns and crown molding)- really excited! Also nervous about the move, will be tough because new tank has to go in the old tank's spot! Gonna be a long day!!

JIM

Originally Posted by rwb500

every downside of LED's that you mentioned is a symptom of too much light. At this point in the development of reef LED's, people everywhere are having great success with them. We are well past the point where one person's story should have any effect on our outlook. It seems like you weren't able to get them to work, but others have. I am glad that you found something to work for your tank, because that is what really matters.

edit - your tank is amazing by the way.

[spinsonic]

reading posts such as these makes me nervous. I actually just placed an order for 4 AI vega's few days ago!

you have people saying they love their LED, then also ones that complains and made the switch back. I was on the fence for past 3 months, about switching to LEDs, but after seeing numerous amazing LFS with LEDs, I just bite the bullet and went for it.

and oh ya.... im coming from 10x 80w t5's. 800w @ 10hrs day burning through my pocket


Good luck with your tank!

[d2mini]

Originally Posted by jlnielsen13

Next weekend the tank gets moved into a 140 gallon custom DSA tank with a custom built stand and canopy from a real furniture builder (columns and crown molding)- really excited! Also nervous about the move, will be tough because new tank has to go in the old tank's spot! Gonna be a long day!!

JIM

That sounds awesome. Whole new build thread?

[tylersarah]

When we first bought 3 AI Sol Blue units for our 120 gal we had them ramp up to 30% for fear of bleaching corals. All our SPS died, my old bubble coral died as well as some ricordia mushrooms. Turns out 30% wasn't ENOUGH light, after doing a lot of research we doubled the intensity and a year later we run at 90% and our tank looks great.

[rwb500]

i agree with you, sorry i didn't mean to sound confrontational. your experience has even helped me. my LED's are turned way down and I am still seeing these symptoms which I have thought meant too much light. But now I am thinking the problem might be something else, and maybe I have turned mine down too much. perhaps my nutrient levels are off. i guess i just tried a bit too hard to make sure that not everyone is scared away from LED's.

for me, LED's are the cheapest option. If I could afford the power bills, bulbs, a chiller, and a nice fixture, I would switch to MH and T5 in a heartbeat. I am building a new canopy right now. your post has inspired me to include a couple of T5 bulbs in addition to the LED's.

[Hudzon]

Bleaching is caused more by the removal of a wavelength that the zooxanthellae are using as it's primary source, then by intensity, intensity is important but does not normally cause a total bleach like the removal of primary wavelength.

[Buzz1329]

Great thread. Amazing tank. Thanks for sharing your experience. And good luck with the move!