Radium 250 comparison on m80's and lumatek ballasts in my tank

[deepseadan]

A couple days ago I found a dual m80 Hamilton ballast. It's in great shape and after some rewiring (they both ran off one power cord and I attached my sunlight supply plugs), I was able to create two individual ballasts, each individually powered. I ran them each for a minute or so in the garage with an old Hamilton bulb and after that minute they were pulling about 316 watts and climbing slowly. So I took the ballasts into my house for a comparison (that I've been wanting to see for quite some time) and unplugged two of my three lumatek 250 / 400's. I fired all three up and was surprised by the difference between the lumatek and m80. I was expecting the m80's to be brighter, but they weren't. The lumatek is far more intensely white, which I don't like. To the eye, the m80's are much more pleasant. Having said that, I much prefer the m80 look, but I hope I'm not losing par. On sanjay's lighting site, the radiums on m80's have more par than the electronic ballast, but there isn't a test on lumatek hqi ballasts. My big question is, it possible that just because the m80's look a little dimmer (less white I mean) they are putting out more quality photosynthetic usable light because they are being run correctly on a pulse ballast? I would hate to being doing a disservice to my SPS and my electricity bill by leaving the lumateks in the fish closet. I'm not worried about bulb life, I change them every eight months anyway.

[Michigan Mike]

I hear good things about the lumatek ballasts.
What wattage does your lumatek pull? How do they compare to the Hamilton m80?

One would assume if its more blue it is underpowered in comparison...

Edit- why did you rewire the ballast to make a dual ballast 2 individual ballasts?

[alton]

How hot did the M80 ballast get? The heat produced would be considered wasted energy. I would suggest you borrow a PAR or Footcandle meter. On my three MH lamps with a meter I can measure a 10% difference in lamps and still not be able to tell with my eyes which is brighter. If you can tell it must be a big difference?

[deepseadan]

Originally Posted by Michigan Mike

I hear good things about the lumatek ballasts.
What wattage does your lumatek pull? How do they compare to the Hamilton m80?

One would assume if its more blue it is underpowered in comparison...

Edit- why did you rewire the ballast to make a dual ballast 2 individual ballasts?

My lumateks all pull about 300 -304 watts, and the m80's each pull around 320 watts according to my kill-o-watt. The m80's do produce a lot of heat. I rewired them because I wanted to see how each individual ballast would perform, and so I wouldn't always have to run both.

[sirreal63]

Wattage at the wall has no relationship to wattage at the bulb, unless both ballasts were exactly the same efficiency, and that is not the case here. We also cannot use our eyes to judge the light, brightness has nothing to do with par or pur. It is also my understanding that a magnetic ballast can lose efficiency over time, which can impact par. Comparing a 10 year old M80 with a brand new M80 may yield different results.

Use a Par meter to get a better idea of what is really happening, it is entirely possible that the Lumatek is pushing more wattage to the bulb than the old Hamilton.

[deepseadan]

Yeah, I think I'm going to have to bite the bullet and get a par meter. I've always wondered how much par I'm producing. It sure would be nice though, if the m80's had higher par since the look is so much better.

[jerpa]

Buy a sensor and hook it up to a multimeter. Saves you $200.

Cheap(er) PAR Meter

[mc-cro]

tagging along. this is good a good comparison, but it is true an old worn out electronic can lose a lot par.

That Apogee sensor has been on my wish list for some time. Seeing as how I just spent $230 on 3 new Radiums last week, the $140 for the sensor seem worth it. I went ahead and ordered it.

[deepseadan]

Originally Posted by mc-cro

tagging along. this is good a good comparison, but it is true an old worn out electronic can lose a lot par.

That Apogee sensor has been on my wish list for some time. Seeing as how I just spent $230 on 3 new Radiums last week, the $140 for the sensor seem worth it. I went ahead and ordered it.

What ballasts are you running or going to run? For me, I just want to be sure the m80's aren't actually putting out more quality photosynthetic (in spectrum) light. I've also seen a radium 400 on my lumatek, and it didn't really seem any brighter (to the eye) than the 250 watters. But according to sanjay's site, they put out a decent amount more par. I guess the only way to tell will be to get a par meter. I'm going to purchase the whole $335 apogee unit this Friday. I'll post my results as soon as I can. One last note, I did purchase this ballast from the original owner who I know. This dual m80 ballast probably had 8 months on it before he had to move and shut down his system.

[mc-cro]

I have been running the Lumatek 250/400W dimmable ballast, my Radium bulbs are 10 months old and I was planning on replacing them because its about that time. but I have no real way to know if they need to be replaced or not.

An 8 month old M80 wont be worn out at all. I had some M57 that lasted about 7yrs before I noticed their output starting to drop.

[Michigan Mike]

You can multiply wattage draw by 99.9% (lumatek) and 90% (m80) efficiency to calculate how much the bulb is getting, right? Not an exact number but a good reference.
What setting do you have the lumateks' at? 250 or 250 super?

How long did ou have the m80 ballast setup? I'd let them run for a couple days and re-evaluate. Sometimes first impressions are tricky.

I don't now of any testing done with lumatek yet and last I heard even lumatek hasn't come off with numerical facts either so its one of those things we need to look into independently.

You did say the hamilton was more blue, not more dim looking, right?

Harmonic resonance ? Or does the high hz of electronic or digital ballasts make a difference in a bulb's spectrum? I'm not sure.

[Michigan Mike]

Originally Posted by mc-cro

I have been running the Lumatek 250/400W dimmable ballast, my Radium bulbs are 10 months old and I was planning on replacing them because its about that time. but I have no real way to know if they need to be replaced or not.

An 8 month old M80 wont be worn out at all. I had some M57 that lasted about 7yrs before I noticed their output starting to drop.

Really the first 4-6 months they drop the most. They only drop around 5% from 4 months to 12 months. You can really go a couple years because they don't lose much output after 4-6 months and if its not effecting your corals there isn't an urgent reason to change them , IMO.
I would change at 25% loss of output, could be up to a year or two depending on bulb/ballast.

Here's a good read, make your own judgement call based on performance if you can test for it.
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-04/ac/index.php

[James77]

I'd question that 99.9% efficiency for the lumatek stated above, mine would get quite warm when I ran them.

[Michigan Mike]

Ya there isn't much to go on about them, except they seem to be pretty good from what I've been hearing.

Only having 2 of 3 ballasts being m80 its up to you to decide if you want to try one m80 or both for a little while and tell us what you think after some time running them.
I know I would like to hear your comments if you do decide to try them for a bit.
Either way thank you!

[deepseadan]

Originally Posted by Michigan Mike

Ya there isn't much to go on about them, except they seem to be pretty good from what I've been hearing.

Only having 2 of 3 ballasts being m80 its up to you to decide if you want to try one m80 or both for a little while and tell us what you think after some time running them.
I know I would like to hear your comments if you do decide to try them for a bit.
Either way thank you!

I wish sanjay's website had or could do tests on the lumatek ballasts on the hqi setting. Like I said before, they are quite a bit brighter than the m80's I've been running. Until I get my par meter, I'm still going to run the lumateks. I don't want to stress out my acros since they are already used to the lumateks. I also wonder if the m80 ballast cause the radiums to peak higher in some other parts of the spectrum. The m80's obviously have less white, but what part of the spectrum is the white covering? What's really bugging me is I need one more m80 to get all three of my radiums on the same page. I have a source for one more new hamilton m80, but I don't want to throw away $120 just to find out the lumateks are better. Oh well, all I seem to do is spend, spend, spend.

[Michigan Mike]

I would buy used, my m-81 bluewaves are from '05&'06 and are still great little workhorses.
Got a near new Phoenix bulb, reef optix pendant and the bluewave m81 for $50 each.lol

I understand wanting to have all 3 ballasts but you can run just one or two and see if you even want to pursue getting a third.
M80 in the center or one on each end with the lumatek in the center, just saying.

[allsps40]

Some LFS have PAR Apogee meters you can rent for a small fee.

[vanisher]

Originally Posted by deepseadan

A couple days ago I found a dual m80 Hamilton ballast. It's in great shape and after some rewiring (they both ran off one power cord and I attached my sunlight supply plugs), I was able to create two individual ballasts, each individually powered. I ran them each for a minute or so in the garage with an old Hamilton bulb and after that minute they were pulling about 316 watts and climbing slowly. So I took the ballasts into my house for a comparison (that I've been wanting to see for quite some time) and unplugged two of my three lumatek 250 / 400's. I fired all three up and was surprised by the difference between the lumatek and m80. I was expecting the m80's to be brighter, but they weren't. The lumatek is far more intensely white, which I don't like. To the eye, the m80's are much more pleasant. Having said that, I much prefer the m80 look, but I hope I'm not losing par. On sanjay's lighting site, the radiums on m80's have more par than the electronic ballast, but there isn't a test on lumatek hqi ballasts. My big question is, it possible that just because the m80's look a little dimmer (less white I mean) they are putting out more quality photosynthetic usable light because they are being run correctly on a pulse ballast? I would hate to being doing a disservice to my SPS and my electricity bill by leaving the lumateks in the fish closet. I'm not worried about bulb life, I change them every eight months anyway.

I know the thread is a little old, but did you ever take pics of the comparison?