Help with Cycling

dionisk · 12/02/2012, 11:56 AM

Ive been a long term freshwater guy, but recently decided to try a saltwater nano with a 6g fluval edge. I bought 6lbs of live sand, and around 8lbs of live rock from two different lfs. The rock is cured live. I used premixed salt water to fill the tank, and its at around 1.024 salinity.

To get the tank started cycling, I added ace hardware 10% ammonium. I ended up adding around 3ml, (which according to another website/calculator, you add 5ml of ace to get to around 4.0ppm per each 10 gallons). I tested the water a few hours later and realized that it was off the charts on the master kit (8.0+). I panicked and did a ~30% water change. Rechecked the next day, and it was still 8.0+, so I did another ~30% water change, and the ammonium still looked around 8.0. I decided to just keep it there and monitor and see what happens. It is currently day 5 and here is what my readings have been for the past 2 days:

Day 4
7.8 ph
8.0+ Ammonium
5.0+ Nitrite
~10 Nitrate

Day 5
7.8 ph
8.0+ Ammonium
5.0+ Nitrite
~10 Nitrate

I tested the kit on normal salt water to make sure its fine, and it was, everything came back negative, so the kit isn't broken. I am worried that my ammonium is high and might be potentially inhibiting my cycle, as I have no idea just how high it is, and in freshwater tanks its recommended for ammonium to not get too high otherwise itll stall your cycle. At the same time, im afraid of doing water changes stalling my cycle as well (clearly something is happening since my nitrites are off the charts too).

1. What should I do? Should I do pwcs until I can get ammonium down to ~2-4 or do I just keep it at whatever it is right now and let it run its course?

2. I don't seem to have any hitchikers from the live rock. About the only thing I see right now besides the rock are little random grey strands and some tiny little brown rods growing out of the rocks in some places. Did the high ammonia potentially kill off all my hitchikers that came on the rock?

3. Can I use filter material from my freshwater tank to further seed this saltwater tank? My freshwater has some extra bits and pieces of cut up sponge in the HOB filter that I could drop into the hob filter on this reef tank. Should I? Would it be compatible?

Thank you!

sleepydoc · 12/02/2012, 12:30 PM

If you had fauna on your live rock you wanted to keep, adding ammonium wasn't the best idea. All you need is a bit of decaying organic matter - flake food, a piece of cocktail shrimp, etc. I suppose a dead guppie from your FW tank would work, too. Depending what was on your live rock, you may well have killed it.

At this point, I would probably just leave things until the levels come down. I don't think a sponge from your FW tank would help, as the bacteria are different, but I'm not positive on that.

Guss · 12/02/2012, 12:50 PM

I would recomend letting the tank do its thing stop water changes. The bacteria (if there is any left) from the live rock and sand will catch up and bring ammonia into check, trites will go up, and trates will increase.Trites will fall then the trates will follow. When ammonia and trites fall to 0 and trates are close to 0, your cycle will be complete. My cycle took about a month and a few days but I started with dead rock and sand with the fishless shrimp cycle.

dionisk · 12/02/2012, 12:50 PM

There wasn't anything on it in the store, at least nothing I saw. No visible biological life came out the first day either (I didn't dose the ammonia until the second day). Slightly disappointing but I suppose safer in the long run.

Guss · 12/02/2012, 12:53 PM

Most life at this point on the rock is microscopic that you are after. Anything you can see with the naked eye are hitchhikers some good some bad but not critical to the cycle. Its the bacteria you are after.

dionisk · 12/02/2012, 12:56 PM

Oh I know that part. I was more so commenting about the possible hitchiking inverts. Nothing like that happens in freshwater besides snails, so I was looking forward to seeing something, good or bad.

EllieSuz · 12/02/2012, 01:03 PM

The bacteria we cultivate in saltwater are entirely different than your freshwater tanks. Using media from freshwater won't accomplish what you're looking to do.

Guss · 12/02/2012, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dionisk

Oh I know that part. I was more so commenting about the possible hitchiking inverts. Nothing like that happens in freshwater besides snails, so I was looking forward to seeing something, good or bad.

Alot of my hitchkickers didnt show up until the cycle had finished. I did get lucky enough to get a piece with a shroom on it with a few polys too. The shroom survived the cycle but the polys still are just there and peak out from time to time. But feather dusters and other stuff popped out after cycle finished. Be patient they will show up when they are ready.

dionisk · 12/02/2012, 01:20 PM

I found a more official calculator and it does seem like I overdosed by a bit. It was supposed to be 1.12ml of ammonia for my 6g to get to 5ppm. I dosed around 3-4ml, so to around 15-20ppm, and with the two water changes it's probably around 10ppm right now not factoring in dieoff nor conversion to trites.

12/02/2012, 11:56 AM	#1
dionisk Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 27	Help with Cycling Ive been a long term freshwater guy, but recently decided to try a saltwater nano with a 6g fluval edge. I bought 6lbs of live sand, and around 8lbs of live rock from two different lfs. The rock is cured live. I used premixed salt water to fill the tank, and its at around 1.024 salinity. To get the tank started cycling, I added ace hardware 10% ammonium. I ended up adding around 3ml, (which according to another website/calculator, you add 5ml of ace to get to around 4.0ppm per each 10 gallons). I tested the water a few hours later and realized that it was off the charts on the master kit (8.0+). I panicked and did a ~30% water change. Rechecked the next day, and it was still 8.0+, so I did another ~30% water change, and the ammonium still looked around 8.0. I decided to just keep it there and monitor and see what happens. It is currently day 5 and here is what my readings have been for the past 2 days: Day 4 7.8 ph 8.0+ Ammonium 5.0+ Nitrite ~10 Nitrate Day 5 7.8 ph 8.0+ Ammonium 5.0+ Nitrite ~10 Nitrate I tested the kit on normal salt water to make sure its fine, and it was, everything came back negative, so the kit isn't broken. I am worried that my ammonium is high and might be potentially inhibiting my cycle, as I have no idea just how high it is, and in freshwater tanks its recommended for ammonium to not get too high otherwise itll stall your cycle. At the same time, im afraid of doing water changes stalling my cycle as well (clearly something is happening since my nitrites are off the charts too). 1. What should I do? Should I do pwcs until I can get ammonium down to ~2-4 or do I just keep it at whatever it is right now and let it run its course? 2. I don't seem to have any hitchikers from the live rock. About the only thing I see right now besides the rock are little random grey strands and some tiny little brown rods growing out of the rocks in some places. Did the high ammonia potentially kill off all my hitchikers that came on the rock? 3. Can I use filter material from my freshwater tank to further seed this saltwater tank? My freshwater has some extra bits and pieces of cut up sponge in the HOB filter that I could drop into the hob filter on this reef tank. Should I? Would it be compatible? Thank you!

12/02/2012, 12:30 PM	#2
sleepydoc Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 3,907	If you had fauna on your live rock you wanted to keep, adding ammonium wasn't the best idea. All you need is a bit of decaying organic matter - flake food, a piece of cocktail shrimp, etc. I suppose a dead guppie from your FW tank would work, too. Depending what was on your live rock, you may well have killed it. At this point, I would probably just leave things until the levels come down. I don't think a sponge from your FW tank would help, as the bacteria are different, but I'm not positive on that. __________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 120 gallon, coast to coast overflow w/beananimal overflow. Waveline DC 10000 II return pump, 40 gal sump, Octopus XS200 skimmer, T5 lighting

12/02/2012, 12:50 PM	#3
Guss Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: harrisburg Pa Posts: 296	I would recomend letting the tank do its thing stop water changes. The bacteria (if there is any left) from the live rock and sand will catch up and bring ammonia into check, trites will go up, and trates will increase.Trites will fall then the trates will follow. When ammonia and trites fall to 0 and trates are close to 0, your cycle will be complete. My cycle took about a month and a few days but I started with dead rock and sand with the fishless shrimp cycle. __________________ 150 reef tank, coralife 225 skimmer,40 gal sump,2" fine SB, 2 950gph powerheads, 2200 gph return. Temp.78, Ph 8.2, Nh3 -0, No2-0, No3-5 Ca-400, Kh-9 ,Po4-0, Mg~900, T5 6 bulb lighting, Sg 1024 Current Tank Info: 150 reef tank

12/02/2012, 12:53 PM	#5
Guss Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: harrisburg Pa Posts: 296	Most life at this point on the rock is microscopic that you are after. Anything you can see with the naked eye are hitchhikers some good some bad but not critical to the cycle. Its the bacteria you are after. __________________ 150 reef tank, coralife 225 skimmer,40 gal sump,2" fine SB, 2 950gph powerheads, 2200 gph return. Temp.78, Ph 8.2, Nh3 -0, No2-0, No3-5 Ca-400, Kh-9 ,Po4-0, Mg~900, T5 6 bulb lighting, Sg 1024 Current Tank Info: 150 reef tank

12/02/2012, 01:03 PM	#7
EllieSuz Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 3,858	The bacteria we cultivate in saltwater are entirely different than your freshwater tanks. Using media from freshwater won't accomplish what you're looking to do. __________________ "You can't learn this hobby one question at a time." (Mr. Tuskfish) Eileen Current Tank Info: I'm out of the hobby, but used to have a60 gal. reef, refugium in sump, Internal Mag 9 return, SC 302 skimmer, two Maxi-Jet 1200's modded, four bulb T5 Lighting, Reefkeeper Lite Controller with three PC4's, Little Fishes GFO reactor.

12/02/2012, 12:56 PM	#6
dionisk Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 27	Oh I know that part. I was more so commenting about the possible hitchiking inverts. Nothing like that happens in freshwater besides snails, so I was looking forward to seeing something, good or bad.

12/02/2012, 01:20 PM	#9
dionisk Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 27	I found a more official calculator and it does seem like I overdosed by a bit. It was supposed to be 1.12ml of ammonia for my 6g to get to 5ppm. I dosed around 3-4ml, so to around 15-20ppm, and with the two water changes it's probably around 10ppm right now not factoring in dieoff nor conversion to trites.