Help me decide how to spend $2000

[mnman]

I am going to receive $2000 to spend on my reef this year for Christmas!!! Need some help deciding what to get. I currently have 3x150 HQI lighting on a 155 bowfront and would like to upgrade to LED. I also need a calcium reactor to supplement my kalkwasser. So should I.... 1) Get 3x Radions, appropriate hanging kit, and VDM for my Apex and forgo the calcium reactor for the moment. 2) Get 3x Ai VEGA Color, hanging kit, VDM module for Apex, and GEO 612 calcium reactor with Reef Dynamic CO regulator w/solenoid, PM1 and Ph probe to control reactor? I know that I will be about $150 - $200 over for option 2 but reactor with out control would be kind dumb being an though I have an apex. I am leaning towards option 2 at the moment.

[jaa1456]

Stick with the mh and go buy a gem tang lol. I'm serious on the MH part.

[kenc87]

Ya I'd prolly stick with the mh and look into other areas of your system that you can add to or improve

[ACBlinky]

I have to disagree. MH fixtures run HOT, consume a lot of electricity, usually require fans or a chiller (which means more initial cost, space and electrical cost) and the bulbs need replacing every 6 months which gets expensive very quickly.

LEDs are cool running, take very little electricity, and won't require bulb replacement for a decade. The bulbs' colour/intensity doesn't degrade with time either, like MH or fluorescent bulbs.

Light is the lifeblood of a reef. Spend some of the money on that, and if you have enough for a Ca reactor, go for it -- if not, there's always kalk until next Christmas

[Reefnut2010]

If those are your only options........go with 1 !!!! Or you could save that 2k and wait till next Xmas and buy 3 GHL Mitrax. Now thats and LED light !! By then they might be cheaper too !!!

[r-balljunkie]

sell your bowfront after you find a good local deal on a turnkey setup.

[jake koppen]

Keep the halides. Leds suck

[SuperSaltwater]

99% of leds out there suck ***. but lately ive been building HIGH POWER LEDS for my reef. HIGH POWER LEDS 10watts + are amazing. skip those shitty little leds or the common crappy 3 watt ones. i say build an amazing HP LED light, use a pc psu for cheap drivers. whats cool about led is it looks amazing, low heat, now in HIGH POWER and you can choose the colors. i have 30 watts led over my 5 gal reef, 1 x 20k ,1 x 10k and 1 blue. MH would boil this tank while LED stays cool to touch, coral growing great. EBAY sells them dirt cheap about $4-7 per 10watt led bulb. the power supply will cost $15 from new egg and will run 200+ watts if you want. im not talking about 200watt equivalent either, i mean straight 200 watt being used which can equal 300-400 MH or more. trust me go with the new LED high power bulbs. i hated LED forever until recently when i got involved with the new ones. you can even buy 50 or 100 watt led bulbs. dont look straight at it or you go blind.

[david pinder]

While I do agree there are some crap leds out there, I have tried 5 different ones while they all worked some better than others, Ive found quality in lasting long term a problem. The latest I bought were apollos 144wt my sps responded immediatly they love em. The second thing I liked you can tear one down and put it back together in an hour and parts are inexpensive if you have to make a repair. The 3rd thing I liked paid less than $200 apiece to my door. Will say stay away from anything Eshines make they are junk youll be lucky to get a yr out of them. Bought 16 of them 9 went out the first yr and eshines doesnt honor their waranty

[MeanGreenEyes]

Originally Posted by Reefnut2010

If those are your only options........go with 1 !!!! Or you could save that 2k and wait till next Xmas and buy 3 GHL Mitras Now thats and LED light !! By then they might be cheaper too !!!

+1 to this...from a Mitras owner...they do not disappoint!

[scarface70706]

i recommend you stick with your #1 with the radions. nothing beats plug and play equipment thats fully upgradable. and to be completely honest leds are amazing when compared to MH fixtures. there are sooooo many more advantages with leds over mh. electricity consumption, size of fixture, less heat, no need of a chiller, no bulb replacement in a very very very long time, dimmable, fully controllable color, fully upgradable etc. etc. etc. the list really goes on. im not saying mh suck because they dont they make tanks look amazing too. i just feel that they dont have as many pros as leds do. idk why a lot of mh people hate leds so much with such little evidence to their argument. maybe because they never steered them wrong in the past? reliability with their long track record? biases? stubborn to change? who knows but i think you should do your number one choice. good luck buddy.

[Painted skin]

I went from 3x250W MH HQI and since I went with LED I will never go back to MH. I've ran leds with sps and no issue or complaints. Some people may say they notice better growth and color, but this hobby is expensive enough as it is who needs the extra expense for higher electric bill, chiller, bulbs and ballast. I ran my whole 150gal with just under 100 watts.

[Palidora5]

LEDs all the way my electric bill went down 70 when I switched on my 150 and my temp stays perfect all day with no chiller

[jaa1456]

Well let me put in my .02 cents. I have owned and used the Radions, AI sol blues and maxspect razors over the past year. Do they have advantages over LEDs? Yes they do. Do they have downfalls that MH doesn't have? Yes they do. I will never go back to LEDs at all. Yes LEDs run color, last longer and are smaller and more efficient on electric. Yet they can't provide the same color as a MH when it comes to your corals. If you want that backlight look on your corals then by all mean buy LEDs. I lost growth and coloration when I went to LEDs, even PE. I use to sell or give away roughly 300.00 worth of corals a month, that went down to about 50.00 a month with LEDs. I'm not in the hobby to make money, but I did sell what I needed to frag and it payed for my bulbs and electric bill with no problem. LEDs are a niche light and MHs are tried and true.

[YoungREEFA]

chinese led lights, 600 can grow sps in your tank and then you have 1400 left! hop onto the chinese led thread

[Aj Flip]

Gem tang gets my vote haha

[jlnielsen13]

Do not buy LED's.
I started with halides, went to AI sol blues (4 units) . Year and a half later I am running ATI dimmable t5's. LEDS for me just didn't work well at all. I think we are years away from them being as successful as halides or even t5's.
JIM

[sirreal63]

I have to disagree. MH fixtures run HOT, consume a lot of electricity, usually require fans or a chiller (which means more initial cost, space and electrical cost) and the bulbs need replacing every 6 months which gets expensive very quickly. Wattage is heat, the Vega runs over 90 watts each vs. a 150 watt mh, the difference is about 60 watts each. The Radion runs about 140 watts, a 10 watt difference. The human body produces 65 watts at rest. He already has the mh and probably doesn't use or need a chiller, the vast majority of mh users do not need a chiller. A properly driven mh bulb lasts well over a year, many of us go 14 to 16 months easily.

LEDs are cool running, take very little electricity, and won't require bulb replacement for a decade. The bulbs' colour/intensity doesn't degrade with time either, like MH or fluorescent bulbs.

Light is the lifeblood of a reef. The biggest issue that experienced reefers have found with LED is the change of colors, when your Red Planet starts looking like a Purple Planet you notice these things. Spend some of the money on that, and if you have enough for a Ca reactor, go for it -- if not, there's always kalk until next Christmas

mnman, I am a firm believer in LED's but also in being practical. Don't fall for hype, if your goal is electrical savings, you may not gain very much. If you want your corals to do better, you may be disappointed. I almost made the switch myself, but after looking into it deeper and listening to the people who made the switch and were disappointed, I decided to wait. I am happy with the growth and coloration I get from the MH and nothing is broken, it simply works. After doing the math on savings, it would take about 12 years to break even for me to go with the LED's I wanted. That just isn't practical, I can wait, there is no hurry and with my current setup, lighting is not a variable in my tank. The calcium reactor is a step towards getting the chemistry stable in the tank, that may be more important then lighting for your tank. It's a tough decision but there is zero downside to waiting until the LED tech gets more sorted out.

[mnman]

Okay, so there is no clear winner. What I have heard alot is to stick with MH. My main concern is not so much the power bill as long as it is within reason. I want healthy, growing, and colorful coral. As I said before I have 150w MH currently without a chiller and have had no temp issues. It is a new tank so no sps yet, would like to add them though. I am concerned I do not have enough light for them to prosper the way I would like, am I wrong about that? I have also thought about a clam (I know I don't have enough light for that, nor calcium at the moment). I wasn't considering staying MH when I started this thread but due to some comments am thinking that maybe I should consider throwing the 3x250w MH w/t5 into the mix. Like I said I do not have a chiller and would like not having to get one. I have a separate fish room in the basement which is cooler than the upstairs living room + I live in northern MN so year round hot weather is not an issue. would going to 250w raise the temp that much? I am not in this to have the latest and greatest, I'm want to do it right and have a healthy awesome tank.

[sirreal63]

How tall is the tank? You would be better off with the 250's in terms of bulb options but a properly set up 150 with 10K bulbs can put out more par than a poorly setup 250 watt with low par bulbs. The wattage doesn't always tell the story. 150 watt 10k's are good up to about 20" but ballast and reflector come into play as well. There is no doubt that you will find a combination that works with the 250's but you may be stretching what 150's can do without creative coral placement and aquascaping. As far as heat goes, there is no difference in a house at 78 degrees in Minnesota and a house at 78 degrees in South Texas except possible humidity differences. Heat management is always important and it comes from more than just lighting. High wattage pumps do as much to heat a tank as any light source. Ventilation is also important, a closed canopy will retain heat and impart it to the water rapidly, a very well ventilated canopy will put the heat into the room which will heat the tank slower and is easier to deal with.

This a long thread but a good read for anyone who is thinking about going LED.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2203067

[zakstrong]

i have no experience with leds but i have heard the same thoughts dissuading the switch from MH. I believe the 155 bowfront is 24" tall. I think 150 watts are ok but not perfect for that depth. If I was in your position go with the 250 watts. you can do those Radion bulbs with aqua medic cube ballasts to properly run them. Excellent color. Reflectors can be had for cheap. Total cost for a kick a** light setup could be ≈ 650.

nothing compares to the shimmering and comfort of knowing that you have what your corals need. you dont want to be wondering if you corals arent growing because of lights. I do think leds are the future but let those with 20,000 to spend play with the idea.

then spend your 1350 on ca reactor the apex modules and other cool toys. ato tunzes etc.

[david pinder]

I only run leds, been selling frags like never before some of my colonies have gotten so massive have had to move out whole colonies. Color is great. Never did as good with t5s or mhalides

[SuperSaltwater]

MH isnt going to dissapear but led is the future and the present. anyone complaining about LED price needs to consider DIY LED and saving a boatload of cash, its easy and fun. for larger tanks MH is great for smaller tanks LED is the way to go. if using LED on larger tanks i would say 20-100 watt led bulbs is the way to go.

anyone who had a bad experience with LED was probably using 3 and 1 watt led bulbs which is the most common and its crap, underpowered in my opinion. has anyone had bad led experience with the higher wattage leds? i doubt it.

[passion4reef]

No experience with leds yet but when I do make the switch I'm getting reefbreeders leds. They are cheap and I hear good things about them. Also they have more colors then just white and blue. I think that's where people are losing the growth and color. Metal halodes although tried and true and I use them myself are a thing of the past. You can't even resell a top of the line mh fixture on todays market. Everyone wants leds. I believe that a cheap fixture with red yellow green purple and uv leds will blow a top price fixture away. Spend 600 on full color leds, get whatever else you want and give me the rest to go towards my conversion ;b

[jaa1456]

Originally Posted by SuperSaltwater

MH isnt going to dissapear but led is the future and the present. anyone complaining about LED price needs to consider DIY LED and saving a boatload of cash, its easy and fun. for larger tanks MH is great for smaller tanks LED is the way to go. if using LED on larger tanks i would say 20-100 watt led bulbs is the way to go.

anyone who had a bad experience with LED was probably using 3 and 1 watt led bulbs which is the most common and its crap, underpowered in my opinion. has anyone had bad led experience with the higher wattage leds? i doubt it.

To bad all the ones I used were to powerful even on lower setting, I either burnt my lower light stuff like zoas and softies or I browned out my acros because the light was to low. LEDs suck unless you are going to do a dedicated SPS tank IMO.