QT Multiple fish?

[DMBFan]

If I order 5 new fish, can I toss them into my QT tank all at the same time? If any one of them is sick wouldn't I risk all 5 of them? Then treating all 5 of them... is that a concern?

[wooden_reefer]

This is a very good question.

Let me state that for me as a very experienced aquarist I always QT as many fish as I can get, intended for a certain setup.

The disadvantage you mentioned, about putting all the eggs in one basket, is quite real and I take this chance for the benefit of ease of operation and the reduced incompatibility issues. When eveyone is new, there is a greater chance of successful sharing of space.

Yes, also if your DT and QT have both been well cycled to support all fish at once, there will be no new tank syndrone in either QT or DT (If you have not done so in advance, there will be calamity, gross now tank syndrome in QT and DT!)

That said, inexperienced people should not do it. There are a few tricks indeed to QT many fish at once. If you are not well-versed with disease control, learn by QTing one fish at a time. The tuition is lower, though do not accept this as the best method after you become very experienced.

1. You have to make very sure that there will not be ammonia issue in both QT and later in the DT.

2. You have to reduce the chance of infectious bacterial (and viral) infection in confined space. A tank is a confined space pathologically speaking. Always be aware of this. For bacterial infection I always have UV properly set up, while I ERADICATE ich in the eight weeks min needed. I often go 10-12 weeks in QT.

[Cymonous]

This really depends on how large of a QT you are running. If it is a 10gallon, then I would say no. A 20gallon is a possibility, though depending on the type of fish you are buying. If this is a 30+, then I would say it is fine with that many fish.

You just don't want to take the chance of a large bioload (poo=ammonia=death if capacity is exceeded).

Have you checked on the "intended fish purchases" thread to check fish compatibility with each other and your current tank mates?

[Cymonous]

Grr! Dang double-post.

[wooden_reefer]

Originally Posted by Cymonous

This really depends on how large of a QT you are running. If it is a 10gallon, then I would say no. A 20gallon is a possibility, though depending on the type of fish you are buying. If this is a 30+, then I would say it is fine with that many fish.

You just don't want to take the chance of a large bioload (poo=ammonia=death if capacity is exceeded).

Have you checked on the "intended fish purchases" thread to check fish compatibility with each other and your current tank mates?

The ammonia processing capacity is in the size and setup (recent history) of the filter, not the tank.

The tank size is important in the "happy" factor of the fish. Some fish will not eat well in too small a tank.

[DMBFan]

Originally Posted by Cymonous

This really depends on how large of a QT you are running. If it is a 10gallon, then I would say no. A 20gallon is a possibility, though depending on the type of fish you are buying. If this is a 30+, then I would say it is fine with that many fish.

You just don't want to take the chance of a large bioload (poo=ammonia=death if capacity is exceeded).

Have you checked on the "intended fish purchases" thread to check fish compatibility with each other and your current tank mates?

Yeah, everyone that's coming in is compatible (checked in with that thread first). I have a 36 gallon QT that's cycling. I'm trying to save on the shipping costs... ordering online and paying $35 in shipping for a $30 fish seems rather wasteful! Paying that on a $120 order of 5 fish sits better with me... as long as doing it isn't going to basically cost me the entire order because they all die in QT.

I plan on doing 5 gallon changes a few times a week in the QT for 7-9 weeks while they prove their health.

The QT tank has a decent sized air pump, a HOB designed to support up to 40 gallon tank (with filter floss only in it, no carbon), a heater, some PVC for hiding, and a small circulation pump. I've been ghost feeding it for a few weeks and my nitrite is now dropping.

I guess as long as I'm prepared for a bio-shock and willing to do more water changes if their poo starts winning I should be okay with the 5.

[wooden_reefer]

Originally Posted by DMBFan

Yeah, everyone that's coming in is compatible (checked in with that thread first). I have a 36 gallon QT that's cycling. I'm trying to save on the shipping costs... ordering online and paying $35 in shipping for a $30 fish seems rather wasteful! Paying that on a $120 order of 5 fish sits better with me... as long as doing it isn't going to basically cost me the entire order because they all die in QT.

I plan on doing 5 gallon changes a few times a week in the QT for 7-9 weeks while they prove their health.

The QT tank has a decent sized air pump, a HOB designed to support up to 40 gallon tank (with filter floss only in it, no carbon), a heater, some PVC for hiding, and a small circulation pump. I've been ghost feeding it for a few weeks and my nitrite is now dropping.

I guess as long as I'm prepared for a bio-shock and willing to do more water changes if their poo starts winning I should be okay with the 5.

Air pump! The bursting of the bubble creates spray that cause salt deposit.

Have you robustly cycled the filter medium for the QT? If not, you are into a lot of work or even failure.

[wooden_reefer]

"I plan on doing 5 gallon changes a few times a week in the QT for 7-9 weeks while they prove their health."

This does almost nothing to keep ammonia zero or extremely low.

I seldom have to do any WC, none at all, in QT during the 8-12 weeks to eradicate ich.

[Cymonous]

So, you are saying that 5 small fish in a saltwater QT of 10 gallons would actually be ok if the filter was good? I find that very hard to believe. A small QT of 10 gallons is not going to have the bacteria needed to process the ammonia made from 5 fish.

"Happy Factor?" A Tang is not too happy in a DT smaller than 125gallons, but can be put in a 10gallon QT by itself for 6-9 weeks. I don't think "Happy Factor" is really factored in a QT.

[Cymonous]

Why do i keep getting double-posts??

[Cymonous]

Originally Posted by wooden_reefer

Air pump! The bursting of the bubble creates spray that cause salt deposit.

Have you robustly cycled the filter medium for the QT? If not, you are into a lot of work or even failure.

The air pump provides O2 if there is not enough surface movement in the tank. Yes, there is the chance of salt creep, but I would rather have that then to have the fish die due to low O2.

[DMBFan]

Air pump! The bursting of the bubble creates spray that cause salt deposit.

I have a glass top on it.

Have you robustly cycled the filter medium for the QT? If not, you are into a lot of work or even failure.

The filter medium spent a few weeks in my DT sump getting decent flow, and has been in my QT since I set it up. Since it's converting ammonia and nitrite I would say it's close, yeah. I'm still a few weeks away from feeling good about it's ability (once my nitrites stay at 0 while still ghost feeding).

[Cymonous]

Originally Posted by DMBFan

Yeah, everyone that's coming in is compatible (checked in with that thread first). I have a 36 gallon QT that's cycling. I'm trying to save on the shipping costs... ordering online and paying $35 in shipping for a $30 fish seems rather wasteful! Paying that on a $120 order of 5 fish sits better with me... as long as doing it isn't going to basically cost me the entire order because they all die in QT.

I plan on doing 5 gallon changes a few times a week in the QT for 7-9 weeks while they prove their health.

The QT tank has a decent sized air pump, a HOB designed to support up to 40 gallon tank (with filter floss only in it, no carbon), a heater, some PVC for hiding, and a small circulation pump. I've been ghost feeding it for a few weeks and my nitrite is now dropping.

I guess as long as I'm prepared for a bio-shock and willing to do more water changes if their poo starts winning I should be okay with the 5.

Your 36gallon should be sufficient for your 5 fish. You should only need to do one 5gallon change a week unless ammonia does spike. I highly recommend one of those Ammonia alert badges just in-case. And make sure to have an equal amount of at least RODI water available to do a water change.

[sponger0]

Depends on the fish if that tank is going to work for QTing 5 fish. I mean if one of them is a adult achilles tang, that probably wont work lol. What are the fish you are getting?

[DMBFan]

1 Kaudern's Cardinal (Pterapogon kauderni)
1 Orchid Dottyback (Pseudochromis fridmani)
3 Zebra Barred Dartfish (Ptereleotris zebra)

[DMBFan]

dupe post

[sponger0]

They should be fine in a 36 for sure. Your sig says 120 gallon so wasnt sure of the size fish you purchased.

[wooden_reefer]

"A small QT of 10 gallons is not going to have the bacteria needed to process the ammonia made from 5 fish."

Not necessarily true. The setup and the recent history of the filter will decide nitrification capacity.

But in practice too small a QT may stress fish mentally.

Get a rather large tank for QT for mental reason. Some fish will not be happy in too small a QT.

[wooden_reefer]

Considering the bioload from say an eight inch fish, bioload in QT is not the issue.

If a ten gal QT cannot deal with the bioload from three 3-4 inch fish, a QT must be very large to handle the bioload from an 8 inch fish.

Bioload in QT and DT is more inline with the weight or volume of the fish than its length, to the third power of length. The population of nitrification bacteria will increase to match bioload from decay (in cycling) or from livestock.

A fish of the same shape increases bioload 8 times if the length doubles.

[wooden_reefer]

Just three stretched out nylon sacks of crushed coral each about the size of grapefruit, particularly with water dripping onto them, will handle the bioload from an eight inch fish.

It is easy to make sure that there will be no ammonia in QT if one cycles well in advance.

[wooden_reefer]

Originally Posted by Cymonous

The air pump provides O2 if there is not enough surface movement in the tank. Yes, there is the chance of salt creep, but I would rather have that then to have the fish die due to low O2.

Dripping water onto filter oxygenates it very well without salt creep.

The filter would be like a lung from higher animals, not like gills!

[wooden_reefer]

Originally Posted by Cymonous

So, you are saying that 5 small fish in a saltwater QT of 10 gallons would actually be ok if the filter was good? I find that very hard to believe. A small QT of 10 gallons is not going to have the bacteria needed to process the ammonia made from 5 fish.

"Happy Factor?" A Tang is not too happy in a DT smaller than 125gallons, but can be put in a 10gallon QT by itself for 6-9 weeks. I don't think "Happy Factor" is really factored in a QT.

I am saying that ammonia will not be a problem.

Problem may well come in in the form of bacterial infection in confined space, particular if there is no means, such as a UV, to reduce the waterborne concentration of pathogenic bacteria.

Problem may come in as each fish come to close together for comfort. Each fish does not have the personal space even if a little upset mentally from collection and capitivity to be terrtorial.

[wooden_reefer]

Originally Posted by DMBFan

I have a glass top on it.


The filter medium spent a few weeks in my DT sump getting decent flow, and has been in my QT since I set it up. Since it's converting ammonia and nitrite I would say it's close, yeah. I'm still a few weeks away from feeling good about it's ability (once my nitrites stay at 0 while still ghost feeding).

Putting filter medium intended for QT in DT will not do well. Doing so will only "seed" it, not grow it. If you only seed the medium for QT, you will be cycling with the fish while in QT.

The medium for QT should be deliberately and separately cycled in advance to handle the bioload in QT.

(For me, often 10 -100 times over capacity so that most of the nitrification bacteria in QT will starve due to low level of ammonia.)

[wooden_reefer]

Originally Posted by Cymonous

So, you are saying that 5 small fish in a saltwater QT of 10 gallons would actually be ok if the filter was good? I find that very hard to believe. A small QT of 10 gallons is not going to have the bacteria needed to process the ammonia made from 5 fish.

"Happy Factor?" A Tang is not too happy in a DT smaller than 125gallons, but can be put in a 10gallon QT by itself for 6-9 weeks. I don't think "Happy Factor" is really factored in a QT.

At least happy enough to eat well for the 8 weeks to eradicate ich.

[DMBFan]

I think I was unclear... The medium that is currently in my QT, that has been there for weeks, spent it's first few weeks in my DT (from new to DT).

Seeding it just makes the start of the process quicker... I add food usually every other day, sometimes daily, to keep the addition of ammonia consistent.