Im stumped with ammonia

Alysiak00 · 01/03/2013, 04:56 PM

I figured i would run this by you guys because i am out of ideas. My buddies 90gal display (30 gal sump), total volume of around 115gals is stumping me. The ammonia will not drop below 8ppms even after doing a 50% water change.

Heres the scoop:

-tank has been fine for about 6 months till now when he bought a new fish (tang of some sort)

-apparently he bought a fish and it died within 8hrs

-I told him to check his params and sure enough his ammonia was at the max on the test kit (8ppm)

-He then told me that the sand bed was from the original owner when he bought the tank used around 6 months ago.

-Ive been running bare bottom on my 40b reef and no issues in the last 18months. so i figured we could remove the sand bed and atleast get his FOWLR easier to maintain.

-I then went over and checked out the tank. Heres where it was at when i showed up.
-No nitrates, no nitrites, ammonia through the roof (8ppm), salinity at 1.020, 8.1 ph, ect ect.
-equipment was good except his new coralife super skimmer (two months) was draining right back into the tank instead of blocking off the cup or running the line into a collection cup.

-I fixed the skimmer line issue, upped his flow, removed the sandbed, checked the RO water's ammonia reading zero, and did a 50% waterchange. Everything has been fine other than the ammonia (its still at 8ppm).
-------------------------------------------------------------

So here is where i am out of ideas. He has about 50-75lbs of live rock, im guessing of course, that looks healthy which i dont believe to be leaching anything. He only has a damsel, green puffer, and as of yesterday he had a snowflake eel but it just died randomly. I have no idea what is going on. I have told him to change 15gals of water every 3 days and he has done so for almost a week and a half with no change at all on the ammonia. skimmer is working, all the pumps are on, theres no dead fish hiding anywhere, what else could it possibly be?

TIA

disc1 · 01/03/2013, 05:01 PM

If there are fish swimming around in there and not dying then that reading has to be in error. Have you tried using another kit?

He's not using any medications is he? Some of those will give false readings.

markaren · 01/03/2013, 05:21 PM

Can the fish live in that low salinity?

sponger0 · 01/03/2013, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markaren

Can the fish live in that low salinity?

They can live in very low salinity. As long as they are acclimated to it. Alot of fish only tanks are kept at 1.020

Im also guessing possibly a bad ammonia test kit.

Alysiak00 · 01/03/2013, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by disc1

If there are fish swimming around in there and not dying then that reading has to be in error. Have you tried using another kit?

He's not using any medications is he? Some of those will give false readings.

theres no medications being added at the time (or ever) just normal fish food twice a week. i have not tried another test kit as of yet but i'll have him pick up another one. I did check to see if they're expired and they're brand new unless the batch is bad.

Alysiak00 · 01/03/2013, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sponger0

They can live in very low salinity. As long as they are acclimated to it. Alot of fish only tanks are kept at 1.020

Im also guessing possibly a bad ammonia test kit.

yes sponger is correct. FOWLR tanks do not need the added salinity like our reef tanks. Thats one of the reasons he wanted a FOWLR tank because of the ease of tank parameters, except he can't even keep 3 fish lol

ReefKeeper64 · 01/03/2013, 06:36 PM

You might want to just put some Prime in the water column to be safe. Ammonia comes first, then Nitrite, then Nitrate last - in that order. If the Ammonia reading is real, then that is what is going on due to all of the disturbances caused by removing the sand bad. It will resolve itself with time if that is the whole story. GL

OregonReefer2 · 01/03/2013, 06:44 PM

Ruling out test kit error and massive overfeeding there has to be something in the tank dead/decaying...

That could be just about anything... Bacteria from the sand removal, worms in/on the rock, snails

That said, I would take a water sample to the LFS to verify my test results

OregonReefer2 · 01/03/2013, 06:44 PM

Doh, double post

Alysiak00 · 01/03/2013, 07:31 PM

i just got a text and he is going to run up to the lfs tomorrow. I personally searched the whole tank when we removed the sand bed (overflow, sump, and rocks) and could not find anything. He had a fish go MIA about a month ago but it was the size of a quarter. We thought the eel had ate it by accident. Even if it was the fish stuck in a rock or so, would it still be decaying this bad after 4-6 weeks in a 115g water column and especially after all these water changes. Im hoping the LFS tells him the new test kit is garbage. it says it expires in 2017

01/03/2013, 04:56 PM	#1
Alysiak00 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: N. Ridgeville, Ohio Posts: 1,835	Im stumped with ammonia I figured i would run this by you guys because i am out of ideas. My buddies 90gal display (30 gal sump), total volume of around 115gals is stumping me. The ammonia will not drop below 8ppms even after doing a 50% water change. Heres the scoop: -tank has been fine for about 6 months till now when he bought a new fish (tang of some sort) -apparently he bought a fish and it died within 8hrs -I told him to check his params and sure enough his ammonia was at the max on the test kit (8ppm) -He then told me that the sand bed was from the original owner when he bought the tank used around 6 months ago. -Ive been running bare bottom on my 40b reef and no issues in the last 18months. so i figured we could remove the sand bed and atleast get his FOWLR easier to maintain. -I then went over and checked out the tank. Heres where it was at when i showed up. -No nitrates, no nitrites, ammonia through the roof (8ppm), salinity at 1.020, 8.1 ph, ect ect. -equipment was good except his new coralife super skimmer (two months) was draining right back into the tank instead of blocking off the cup or running the line into a collection cup. -I fixed the skimmer line issue, upped his flow, removed the sandbed, checked the RO water's ammonia reading zero, and did a 50% waterchange. Everything has been fine other than the ammonia (its still at 8ppm). ------------------------------------------------------------- So here is where i am out of ideas. He has about 50-75lbs of live rock, im guessing of course, that looks healthy which i dont believe to be leaching anything. He only has a damsel, green puffer, and as of yesterday he had a snowflake eel but it just died randomly. I have no idea what is going on. I have told him to change 15gals of water every 3 days and he has done so for almost a week and a half with no change at all on the ammonia. skimmer is working, all the pumps are on, theres no dead fish hiding anywhere, what else could it possibly be? TIA __________________ 40Br/40Br Sump-2xMp40's, mag 9.5, 250w Maristar w/ Bluewave Ballast, DIY stand, SRO1000, 2xBrs Deluxe Reactors -“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.” - Ambrose Bierce

01/03/2013, 05:01 PM	#2
disc1 -RT * ln(k) Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Little Rock Posts: 9,705	If there are fish swimming around in there and not dying then that reading has to be in error. Have you tried using another kit? He's not using any medications is he? Some of those will give false readings. __________________ David Current Tank: Undergoing reconstruction...

01/03/2013, 05:21 PM	#3
markaren Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Clermont ,Florida Posts: 634	Can the fish live in that low salinity? __________________ Mark Current Tank Info: Oceanic 76G Half Circle/XP2000SSS/MP40Wes/Radion Gen1, Tunze Osmolator ATO...Maturing Stage

01/03/2013, 06:36 PM	#7
ReefKeeper64 Wanna be a reefkeeper Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Tampa Posts: 1,158	You might want to just put some Prime in the water column to be safe. Ammonia comes first, then Nitrite, then Nitrate last - in that order. If the Ammonia reading is real, then that is what is going on due to all of the disturbances caused by removing the sand bad. It will resolve itself with time if that is the whole story. GL __________________ Reef Savvy 110g Tank \| GHL Profilux 4 Controller & Doser \| Royal Exclusiv Skimmer & Dreambox/Sump \| ATI 8x54 Sunpower T5 \| Ozotech Ozone Generator

01/03/2013, 06:44 PM	#9
OregonReefer2 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 324	Doh, double post Last edited by OregonReefer2; 01/03/2013 at 06:54 PM.

01/03/2013, 07:31 PM	#10
Alysiak00 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: N. Ridgeville, Ohio Posts: 1,835	i just got a text and he is going to run up to the lfs tomorrow. I personally searched the whole tank when we removed the sand bed (overflow, sump, and rocks) and could not find anything. He had a fish go MIA about a month ago but it was the size of a quarter. We thought the eel had ate it by accident. Even if it was the fish stuck in a rock or so, would it still be decaying this bad after 4-6 weeks in a 115g water column and especially after all these water changes. Im hoping the LFS tells him the new test kit is garbage. it says it expires in 2017 __________________ 40Br/40Br Sump-2xMp40's, mag 9.5, 250w Maristar w/ Bluewave Ballast, DIY stand, SRO1000, 2xBrs Deluxe Reactors -“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.” - Ambrose Bierce