2 questions...

whodeydan76 · 02/04/2013, 09:25 AM

Im not too much of a noob but I am new to the sump and rodi part of the hobby.
Over the weekend I aquired a 93 gallon cube (drilled) and it came with all the hard plumbing, stand, mag 24 pump and so on...
1. The previous owner was using a 40 gal cube for a sump. The cube matches the dt and I think its too nice to use as a sump so I went to a lfs and bought a 20 gal long (on sale for a $1 a gallon)...is the 20L going to be big enough a sump for a 93 gal cube? I am leaning away from using the cube because it would be hard to do a fuge in and baffles.

2. I also received a Kent marine Hi-S rodi maxxima system from the previous owner. He included extra paper filters (the initial filter compartment) and 1 extra carbon filter... it did not come with an extra di filter or the top membrane. How do I determine the gph of the ro unit? How can I tell if the di, carbon, and membrane on top need changed? Is there a way to increase the gallons per hour with different filters or do the units determine the gph?
I am currently making water to start filling my tank and im going to work on what I want to do with my sump as I go. In 14 hours I have made like 9 gallons I would assume... Is that bad?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Slystone · 02/04/2013, 09:56 AM

A TDS meter will tell you if you need to change the filters. That is pretty low flow. Is there a brand name on the unit?

Slystone · 02/04/2013, 10:00 AM

You might replace you DI membrane with this
http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/75-gpd...w-filmtec.html

whodeydan76 · 02/04/2013, 10:05 AM

Yes it is a Kent Marine Hi-s Maxxima. I have a buddy that has a tds meter he said I could have once he gets off work today so I will be going to pick that up later today.
I researched the rodi unit just now and it is a high dollar unit... supposed to be one of the best...from what I read.

Slystone · 02/04/2013, 10:10 AM

Looks like the di filter determines the flow rate, but you need a lot of water pressure for the higher flow rates, that is why BRS recommends the 75.

GroktheCube · 02/04/2013, 10:16 AM

What temperature is your tap water? Very cold water will dramatically reduce RO membrane output. Water in the 40*F range will cut the output to less than half of what it would be at 77*F.

It's really chilly here in NJ, and my 50GPD unit is only managing about 20GPD.

One safe way to increase temperature is to use a very long input line, and coil it around inside a bucket of heated water.

whodeydan76 · 02/04/2013, 10:24 AM

I never thought about the water temp effecting the output... My water seems super cold to me.. I live in a condo and have no copper water lines only soft lines so I bought a outside dual hose adapter from Lowes with seperate shut off valves and it is hooked up to my washers cold water source.
I will fill a bucket with water, add a heater, lengthen the input line and run it through the warm water. Any suggestions about how high to set the heater? Keep in mind I am just making water for my initial fill of my tank... the tank is sitting empty right now so once I get it and the sump filled I will have a long cycle before I will be adding any livestock. I do have around 100# of live rock from a previous set up in a friends tank and I will be adding most if not all of that to the tank once I get it filled.

Palting · 02/04/2013, 11:50 AM

It is the RO membrane and the associated restrictor that determines the output. A 75 gph membrane matched to a 75 gph restrictor, a 100 to a 100, etc. Using google, I found two units of the brand. One is 60 gph http://www.marinedepot.com/Kent_Mari...RORDFS-vi.html , the other 35 gph http://www.amazon.com/Kent-Marine-Hi.../dp/B001EUE6Q4 . If you are unsure of your particular unit, just get the restrictor for 60 gph and the appropriate membrane so they match.

Without an RO membrane and without the DI, the water you are making is NOT good, so stop doing it. The workhorse in an RODI unit is the membrane, dropping the TDS down 90%-95%, and the DI does the rest. Your prefilters just remove solid particulates and detoxify. 9 gallons in 14 hours is no good, anyway. Either your sediment filter or your carbon filter or both are bad, or your tap water pressure is too low.

Elrodg · 02/04/2013, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whodeydan76

Yes it is a Kent Marine Hi-s Maxxima. I have a buddy that has a tds meter he said I could have once he gets off work today so I will be going to pick that up later today.
I researched the rodi unit just now and it is a high dollar unit... supposed to be one of the best...from what I read.

I have the same unit. 60gpd. Fantastic filter. I have been using mine for a long time. Like two years and I bought the unit used, and I've only changed the filters once. Mine has a dual tds meter inline. It's read 0ppm for two yrs. my rejection rate is just a little over the output rate. About 9 gallons of 0ppm water and about 10-12 gallons of rejected. That membrane and di filter are killers on a tank budget.
I buy the sediment filters about every six months and my carbon block I'm about to replace for the first time.

Elrodg · 02/04/2013, 02:27 PM

ImageUploadedByTapatalk 21360009569.421005.jpg
What is the diameter or the filter cans? That will help you determine the overall flow rate.
Mine are around 3.5-4" in diameter

GroktheCube · 02/04/2013, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whodeydan76

I never thought about the water temp effecting the output... My water seems super cold to me.. I live in a condo and have no copper water lines only soft lines so I bought a outside dual hose adapter from Lowes with seperate shut off valves and it is hooked up to my washers cold water source.
I will fill a bucket with water, add a heater, lengthen the input line and run it through the warm water. Any suggestions about how high to set the heater? Keep in mind I am just making water for my initial fill of my tank... the tank is sitting empty right now so once I get it and the sump filled I will have a long cycle before I will be adding any livestock. I do have around 100# of live rock from a previous set up in a friends tank and I will be adding most if not all of that to the tank once I get it filled.

You can find charts online for the exact flow loss for your membrane, most manufacturers have then.

80 is fine. The more RO input tubing in the bucket the better, and the larger the heater the better.

As others have suggested, I'd check TDS before using the water.

whodeydan76 · 02/04/2013, 04:53 PM

It has a membrane and di media ...it just did not come with extras. I am going to change the carbon block as well since I already did the sediment filter. My pressure guage is only reading 28. I am putting.the tds meter on the unit tonight. I have mixed 4 5gal buckets and they are just sitting with powerheads circulating them. I am going to check the water before I use it.
My tap water pressure is 72. It is super strong. I have never dealt with an rodi filter before but I am sure glad to have one so I'm not hauling water from the lfs to do water changes.
I had a friend ask me to start saving my waste water for him...he wants it for water changes...he uses city water like that of what I'm purifying but he says my waste water has to be cleaner than what his fish are used to..any thoughts on that?

Vinny Kreyling · 02/04/2013, 05:42 PM

Waste water is waste for a reason-not good for any fish.
Cold water constantly running through a warm bucket will change temp fast so you will have to keep check & adjust accordingly. Cool should be the target, but not so the tank sweats. DO NOT use hot water to run an RO.
You should change the carbon block & FLUSH TO REMOVE CARBON DUST BEFORE using it through the membrane.
Remove the hose after the chamber before the membrane & flush unto sink or bucket for a few minutes until water is clean.

Palting · 02/04/2013, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whodeydan76

It has a membrane and di media ...it just did not come with extras. I am going to change the carbon block as well since I already did the sediment filter. My pressure guage is only reading 28. I am putting.the tds meter on the unit tonight. I have mixed 4 5gal buckets and they are just sitting with powerheads circulating them. I am going to check the water before I use it.
My tap water pressure is 72. It is super strong. I have never dealt with an rodi filter before but I am sure glad to have one so I'm not hauling water from the lfs to do water changes.
I had a friend ask me to start saving my waste water for him...he wants it for water changes...he uses city water like that of what I'm purifying but he says my waste water has to be cleaner than what his fish are used to..any thoughts on that?

That pressure is way low, explains why you have such a low output. You need a minimum of 35 at the membrane, ideally 50-60 psi. The usual cause of pressure drop between the tap (72 for you) and before the membrane (28) is worn or clogged sediment and carbon filter.

The waste water may have been cleaned by the sediment filter and the carbon filter, but everything left behind has now been concentrated by the membrane. Not a good idea to use the waste water for an aquarium. Just for kicks, check the TDS of the tap water, the waste water, and your output water. You should check the TDS of the water you already made, anyway, to make sure your membrane and DI are up to snuff.

whodeydan76 · 02/05/2013, 08:46 AM

Cool thank u....will do

02/04/2013, 09:25 AM	#1
whodeydan76 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Lima, Ohio Posts: 364	2 questions... Im not too much of a noob but I am new to the sump and rodi part of the hobby. Over the weekend I aquired a 93 gallon cube (drilled) and it came with all the hard plumbing, stand, mag 24 pump and so on... 1. The previous owner was using a 40 gal cube for a sump. The cube matches the dt and I think its too nice to use as a sump so I went to a lfs and bought a 20 gal long (on sale for a $1 a gallon)...is the 20L going to be big enough a sump for a 93 gal cube? I am leaning away from using the cube because it would be hard to do a fuge in and baffles. 2. I also received a Kent marine Hi-S rodi maxxima system from the previous owner. He included extra paper filters (the initial filter compartment) and 1 extra carbon filter... it did not come with an extra di filter or the top membrane. How do I determine the gph of the ro unit? How can I tell if the di, carbon, and membrane on top need changed? Is there a way to increase the gallons per hour with different filters or do the units determine the gph? I am currently making water to start filling my tank and im going to work on what I want to do with my sump as I go. In 14 hours I have made like 9 gallons I would assume... Is that bad? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

02/04/2013, 09:56 AM	#2
Slystone Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: WI Posts: 258	A TDS meter will tell you if you need to change the filters. That is pretty low flow. Is there a brand name on the unit? __________________ Nemomma (><((('> 28 gal nano cube, Rapid LED Retrofit, 50# LR 40# LS 2 ocellaris, yellow watchman goby. Firefish, yellow accessor

02/04/2013, 10:00 AM	#3
Slystone Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: WI Posts: 258	You might replace you DI membrane with this http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/75-gpd...w-filmtec.html __________________ Nemomma (><((('> 28 gal nano cube, Rapid LED Retrofit, 50# LR 40# LS 2 ocellaris, yellow watchman goby. Firefish, yellow accessor

02/04/2013, 10:10 AM	#5
Slystone Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: WI Posts: 258	Looks like the di filter determines the flow rate, but you need a lot of water pressure for the higher flow rates, that is why BRS recommends the 75. __________________ Nemomma (><((('> 28 gal nano cube, Rapid LED Retrofit, 50# LR 40# LS 2 ocellaris, yellow watchman goby. Firefish, yellow accessor

02/04/2013, 11:50 AM	#8
Palting Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Ohio Posts: 6,912	It is the RO membrane and the associated restrictor that determines the output. A 75 gph membrane matched to a 75 gph restrictor, a 100 to a 100, etc. Using google, I found two units of the brand. One is 60 gph http://www.marinedepot.com/Kent_Mari...RORDFS-vi.html , the other 35 gph http://www.amazon.com/Kent-Marine-Hi.../dp/B001EUE6Q4 . If you are unsure of your particular unit, just get the restrictor for 60 gph and the appropriate membrane so they match. Without an RO membrane and without the DI, the water you are making is NOT good, so stop doing it. The workhorse in an RODI unit is the membrane, dropping the TDS down 90%-95%, and the DI does the rest. Your prefilters just remove solid particulates and detoxify. 9 gallons in 14 hours is no good, anyway. Either your sediment filter or your carbon filter or both are bad, or your tap water pressure is too low. __________________ Anything I post is just an opinion. One of many in this hobby. Believe and follow at your own risk of rapid and complete annihilation of all life in your tank :) Current Tank Info: Incept 3/2010, 150 RR, 50g sump, 20g fuge, 150w 15K MH x3, T5 actinics x8, moonlight LED x6, 1400gph return, Koralia 1400 x4, 300 g skimmer, 4 tangs, 2 mandarins, 2 perc, 6 line, 3 cardinals, 2 firefish, SPS, LPS, zoas, palys, shrooms, clam

02/04/2013, 10:05 AM	#4
whodeydan76 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Lima, Ohio Posts: 364	Yes it is a Kent Marine Hi-s Maxxima. I have a buddy that has a tds meter he said I could have once he gets off work today so I will be going to pick that up later today. I researched the rodi unit just now and it is a high dollar unit... supposed to be one of the best...from what I read.

02/04/2013, 10:16 AM	#6
GroktheCube Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 2,063	What temperature is your tap water? Very cold water will dramatically reduce RO membrane output. Water in the 40F range will cut the output to less than half of what it would be at 77F. It's really chilly here in NJ, and my 50GPD unit is only managing about 20GPD. One safe way to increase temperature is to use a very long input line, and coil it around inside a bucket of heated water.

02/04/2013, 10:24 AM	#7
whodeydan76 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Lima, Ohio Posts: 364	I never thought about the water temp effecting the output... My water seems super cold to me.. I live in a condo and have no copper water lines only soft lines so I bought a outside dual hose adapter from Lowes with seperate shut off valves and it is hooked up to my washers cold water source. I will fill a bucket with water, add a heater, lengthen the input line and run it through the warm water. Any suggestions about how high to set the heater? Keep in mind I am just making water for my initial fill of my tank... the tank is sitting empty right now so once I get it and the sump filled I will have a long cycle before I will be adding any livestock. I do have around 100# of live rock from a previous set up in a friends tank and I will be adding most if not all of that to the tank once I get it filled.

02/04/2013, 02:27 PM	#10
Elrodg Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Western KY GO MURRAY STATE Posts: 175	ImageUploadedByTapatalk 21360009569.421005.jpg What is the diameter or the filter cans? That will help you determine the overall flow rate. Mine are around 3.5-4" in diameter __________________ Opportunity is often missed because it's dressed in coveralls and looks a lot like work Current Tank Info: 90g mixed reef. MP40, 2 radion gen1

02/04/2013, 04:53 PM	#12
whodeydan76 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Lima, Ohio Posts: 364	It has a membrane and di media ...it just did not come with extras. I am going to change the carbon block as well since I already did the sediment filter. My pressure guage is only reading 28. I am putting.the tds meter on the unit tonight. I have mixed 4 5gal buckets and they are just sitting with powerheads circulating them. I am going to check the water before I use it. My tap water pressure is 72. It is super strong. I have never dealt with an rodi filter before but I am sure glad to have one so I'm not hauling water from the lfs to do water changes. I had a friend ask me to start saving my waste water for him...he wants it for water changes...he uses city water like that of what I'm purifying but he says my waste water has to be cleaner than what his fish are used to..any thoughts on that?

02/04/2013, 05:42 PM	#13
Vinny Kreyling Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Miller Place, NY Posts: 7,206	Waste water is waste for a reason-not good for any fish. Cold water constantly running through a warm bucket will change temp fast so you will have to keep check & adjust accordingly. Cool should be the target, but not so the tank sweats. DO NOT use hot water to run an RO. You should change the carbon block & FLUSH TO REMOVE CARBON DUST BEFORE using it through the membrane. Remove the hose after the chamber before the membrane & flush unto sink or bucket for a few minutes until water is clean.

02/05/2013, 08:46 AM	#15
whodeydan76 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Lima, Ohio Posts: 364	Cool thank u....will do