Adding flameback angel--do I need to quarantine or treat for 28 g.?

[duganderson]

I'm looking at adding an African Flameback angel to my 28 g. mixed reef with 2 oc. clowns, 1 firefish, cleaner shrimp, snails and two RBTA. My LFS is willing to sell it to me directly from the bag from when it arrives so it does not get exposed to anything in the store's tanks. The LFS buys this fish from Quality Marine.

How important is it to quarantine or treat before adding to tank or would you just add it if it looks healthy?

How long would you quarantine OR what would you treat with if you did?

I've never treated or quarantined my fish but they have always been tank bred. I don't have a quarantine or treatment tank but could use an 18 g. tupperware with live rock, powerhead and heater to make one. My fish are healthy.

Any tips, articles, references, appreciated.

Thanks!

[Flame_Angel]

Always quarantine. No exceptions.

[danil]

Read Sticky in New to the Hobby forum. All you need to know and more about QT.
if you can quarantine - go for it. If time-space is against you - don't but be prepare to lost some or all of your fish to ich or velvet or some other nasty things. Size of your tank is just a measure of your possible loss. With 28g is a 28g loss with 280g is a 280g loss of livestock. GL!

[Slystone]

Always quarantine, no live rock.

[duganderson]

Thanks for the link. I read it but I don't think it indicated how long to quarantine. How long do you recommend?

Originally Posted by Slystone

Always quarantine, no live rock.

Why no live rock? I've got a small amount I could throw out afterward if I needed.

[Bruno3047]

C'mon man. You know the answer to that question. QT is the only safe way to add fish to your tank. Three weeks, minimum. Six weeks preferable. Just because you’re buying the fish while he's still in your LFS's supplier's shipping bag doesn't mean anything. In fact, I believe most fish stores supplier's tanks are rife with the most fast-moving and devastating diseases in our hobby. To wit, Velvet, Brook, etc.

Be smart. Be safe. Be happy.

[duganderson]

Originally Posted by Bruno3047

C'mon man. You know the answer to that question. QT is the only safe way to add fish to your tank. Three weeks, minimum. Six weeks preferable. Just because you’re buying the fish while he's still in your LFS's supplier's shipping bag doesn't mean anything. In fact, I believe most fish stores supplier's tanks are rife with the most fast-moving and devastating diseases in our hobby. To wit, Velvet, Brook, etc.

Be smart. Be safe. Be happy.

I'm surprised that most nano tank owners don't quarantine (according to what I've read) based on the strong feedback of folks here.

[ACBlinky]

The day you decide to skip quarantine is the day you accidentally import something nasty into your reef.

The fish could be carrying a parasite when it's caught. The parasite can stay on the fish throughout its stay at a wholesaler's, or it may catch something in the wholesaler's tank. The LFS not removing it from the bag just means it won't catch anything at the LFS; doesn't do a thing for whatever may already be on/in the fish or the water in the bag.

Six weeks is a short time in the overall lifespan of a fish or a reef tank, it's worth quarantining with copper or hypo, leaving the tank fallow during the quarantine period, to KNOW your tank is free of parasites like ich.

[duganderson]

Got it....I plan to quarantine.

One more question....do you recommend to monitor the fish when in quarantine and only treat if you see a problem OR treat right of way regardless?

[Bruno3047]

I don't treat with copper unless I have to, but I dose Prazi-pro as soon as the fish starts eating.
Recommended dosage once and then again five days later.

[hkgar]

I recently upgraded from a 90 to a 180. I had the 90 for 7 years and added several fish over the years and never QTed. After the upgraded I added a few fish and of course never QTed the new fish, as experience said everything would be ok.

So far I have lost my Naso Tang PBT, Kole Tang, Midas Blenny, to ick,

I have begun a process of Hyposylanity and I am hoping my remaining fish survive.

When I buy new fish (after the 4-8 week process of Hypo), will I QT?

Now what do you think?

You can only get away with bad practices so long before your butt has a big bite taken from it. Oh and I think it started with Kole Tang I got from my LFS, who says they QT all their fish for 2 weeks.

[geaux xman]

if its just 3-4 small, relatively inexpensive fish in a small 30ish gal tank, I wouldnt bother QT-ing. In my 33g reef, I just recently added 2 ORA b/w clowns and a bangaii direct. Purchased them from my LFS and they were there for months and eating well. Just try to buy from a good source(not petco). If I do introduce some fatal parasite, I dont have that much to lose.

Now for my 180g where I keep much nicer fish, I QT 3+ weeks of copper plus treatments of prazi and formalin dips.

Nothing from my 33g will ever go into my 180g.

[dave sullivan]

I wouldn't quarantee it because the fish you have are inexpensive and as long as your fish are eating well then I wouldn't worry about it. However, if your fish are not healthy and are not eating well then I would set up another tank. Most of the time healthy eating well fish can with stand most anything. Have a great day!

[hybridazn]

Originally Posted by dave sullivan

I wouldn't quarantee it because the fish you have are inexpensive and as long as your fish are eating well then I wouldn't worry about it. However, if your fish are not healthy and are not eating well then I would set up another tank. Most of the time healthy eating well fish can with stand most anything. Have a great day!

Lol

[hkgar]

Originally Posted by geaux xman

Now for my 180g where I keep much nicer fish, I QT 3+ weeks of copper plus treatments of prazi and formalin dips.

Nothing from my 33g will ever go into my 180g.

How do you insure that you don't introduce copper into the DT after you treat with copper? That seems like a good prophylactic for Ick, but I would woory about contamination of the DT.

[ACBlinky]

I don't think quarantining or treating for disease should depend on how expensive or 'nice' the fish are, they all deserve to be healthy, don't they?

Regardless of the size of tank, price of the fish, whether or not they went through a quarantine process or disease treatment before they get to my home, ALL fish go through copper treatment before they hit my display. No exceptions. Why risk it?

As for introducing copper into the display, I don't really worry about it -- when fish are done treatment in the QT, I do a water change and add carbon, test for copper, and when I get a reading of 0 I take the fish out, put them into a bucket with a bit of water, and drip acclimate them with display tank water. Once they're acclimated, I net them out and put them in the DT; chances of them carrying enough copper on their skin to damage anything is pretty minimal at that point, and I run carbon in the DT 24/7 just in case (also to reduce allelopathy; it's a mixed LPS, SPS & softy tank)

[duganderson]

Folks...thanks for all of the feedback.

If fish get ick or other parasite in the display, is there risk of the ick or parasite continuing to live in the water, rock, coral, etc. and then re-infecting newly added or treated fish.

How long does it take ick or a parasite to die in the display without an infected host?

Can a healthy fish be a carrier of the ick or parasite without ever looking sick?

Thanks

[larac]

Originally Posted by duganderson

Folks...thanks for all of the feedback.

If fish get ick or other parasite in the display, is there risk of the ick or parasite continuing to live in the water, rock, coral, etc. and then re-infecting newly added or treated fish.

How long does it take ick or a parasite to die in the display without an infected host?

Can a healthy fish be a carrier of the ick or parasite without ever looking sick?

Thanks

1) Yes
2) Fallow (without any fish) about two months
3) Yes

Think of it this way- all of these diseases are in the ocean, but it is a big ocean. Now imagine you've got one person with the flu and you put them in a small room with ten other people. Virus city.

Aside from diseases a good reason to quarantine is to get a wild caught fish used to accepting prepared foods. I had a CB that I barely quarantined and I had a very hard time getting him to accept food. In a bare QT, hunger will drive them to eat what you feed within a couple of days. IMO it also makes them more personable to humans who they have had time to get used to.

[danil]

Originally Posted by hkgar

I recently upgraded from a 90 to a 180. I had the 90 for 7 years and added several fish over the years and never QTed. After the upgraded I added a few fish and of course never QTed the new fish, as experience said everything would be ok.

So far I have lost my Naso Tang PBT, Kole Tang, Midas Blenny, to ick,

I have begun a process of Hyposylanity and I am hoping my remaining fish survive.

When I buy new fish (after the 4-8 week process of Hypo), will I QT?

Now what do you think?

You can only get away with bad practices so long before your butt has a big bite taken from it. Oh and I think it started with Kole Tang I got from my LFS, who says they QT all their fish for 2 weeks.

I laugh when I hear LFS guys say we 100% QT all fish for X weeks. They forget to mention they all have copper in their fish system(s) to suppress MI. They don't treat MI at those levels just make fish looks salable. If you want to increase your chances to buy good healthy fish from LFS try to get one from reef system and delay your purchase for two-three weeks.

[Flame_Angel]

Originally Posted by danil

I laugh when I hear LFS guys say we 100% QT all fish for X weeks. They forget to mention they all have copper in their fish system(s) to suppress MI. They don't treat MI at those levels just make fish looks salable. If you want to increase your chances to buy good healthy fish from LFS try to get one from reef system and delay your purchase for two-three weeks.

Or you could just get to know your LFS employees and try to find a good LFS? I quarantine fish in my store in a separate system for two weeks before they go into my sale tanks; plenty of food, clean water, and treatment if they show signs of needing it. We don't run copper in our sale tanks 'just to make fish look saleable'.

Sorry if you've had the misfortune of spending your money at a bad LFS, but that doesn't mean every LFS that says they quarantine fish is lying just so they can shear money off you.

Originally Posted by dave sullivan

I wouldn't quarantee it because the fish you have are inexpensive and as long as your fish are eating well then I wouldn't worry about it. However, if your fish are not healthy and are not eating well then I would set up another tank. Most of the time healthy eating well fish can with stand most anything. Have a great day!

Also, this is bad advice. Please don't follow it. It doesn't matter how expensive/inexpensive the fish you have are, quarantining new arrivals does nothing but good, and introducing something like ich or another parasite into your display tank can cost you money and give you headaches for weeks to months on end. It's cheap insurance, and should always be done.