Emergency Ich Question

SomethingClever · 02/05/2013, 12:51 AM

Hi,
I'm sure my Flame Angel, Chromis, and Clown have Ich. I have moved them into the qt tank. I bought some cupramine, and a test kit. I gave the first dose of cupramine today, the bottle says dose again in 48 hours..

So my questions are...
since they are in a qt tank for a long time, how do I keep the copper levels high enough to kill the Ich, while keeping the water parameters stable..
Meaning.. these fish are swimming in a 10 gal tank dosed with copper, they are still making ammonia?
I would do a water change to lessen the ammonia, but the copper levels would also decrease...
Should I use a product like amquell when ever I feel necessary?
will I do a water change and re dose copper?
water changes are fine for me, but constant dosing with copper seems like an accident waiting to happen.

ok.. If any one has had the same problem, or questions/solutions let me know..

Joon16 · 02/05/2013, 07:29 AM

Just redose the copper. When you do water changes, do 5g (16 drops of cupramine) or 2.5g (8 drops cupramine), whatever amount is easier for you to know how much copper you will need to get back to the .5. I'm not sure if I have the drops correct since I'm at work and dont have the bottle but I think its 32 drops per 10g for the .5 concentration. Therefore, just cut the dose in half for 5g and in half again for 2.5 g I would get a Seachem Ammonia Alert badge too. Then you will know if ammonia gets high and if a water change is needed. I know you CANNOT use Prime while dosing Cupramine but I'm not 100% sure with Amquel. I would be safe and use neither. Only do water changes if needed.

bnumair · 02/05/2013, 07:41 AM

never dose ammonia reducing chemicals with cupramine. u will kill all ur fish.
do water changes and adjust the copper levels by testing.
u can also calculate the dose for a 5gal and dose it in ur 5 gal water change, this way ur replacing waste water with freshly mixed saltwater with correct copper dosage. but test ur results.

AdamDeMamp · 02/05/2013, 07:56 AM

If the fish are eating well I would just leave them alone and feed them garlic enriched foods. They will pull through just fine. I found chems and dips just **** them off more.

Palting · 02/05/2013, 08:45 AM

Whatever happened to testing for copper levels? Is that not recommended anymore?

BTW, just to emphasize for anyone else just reading, only copper, hyposalinity or the tank transfer method work to get rid of and cure marine Ich. I've tried all others, garlic being one of them and "reef safe" meds being another. They are all silly nonsense that cost money, and can lose fish in the long run from recurring infestation. I did hyposalinity and continue to do it prophylactically.

gone fishin · 02/05/2013, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Palting

Whatever happened to testing for copper levels? Is that not recommended anymore?

BTW, just to emphasize for anyone else just reading, only copper, hyposalinity or the tank transfer method work to get rid of and cure marine Ich. I've tried all others, garlic being one of them and "reef safe" meds being another. They are all silly nonsense that cost money, and can lose fish in the long run from recurring infestation. I did hyposalinity and continue to do it prophylactically.

This is very sound advice and it bears repeating do not use amquel or any other similar product. It will kill your fish.

muppet · 02/05/2013, 10:35 AM

Does the bottle really say to re-dose in 48 hours? I have Seachem Cupramine and I swear mine doesn't say that. I'll look again when I get home. I thought that the concentration of copper is generally expected to stay pretty much static if there's no filtration/carbon/etc in your QT.

muppet · 02/05/2013, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joon16

Just redose the copper. When you do water changes, do 5g (16 drops of cupramine) or 2.5g (8 drops cupramine), whatever amount is easier for you to know how much copper you will need to get back to the .5. I'm not sure if I have the drops correct since I'm at work and dont have the bottle but I think its 32 drops per 10g for the .5 concentration. Therefore, just cut the dose in half for 5g and in half again for 2.5 g I would get a Seachem Ammonia Alert badge too. Then you will know if ammonia gets high and if a water change is needed. I know you CANNOT use Prime while dosing Cupramine but I'm not 100% sure with Amquel. I would be safe and use neither. Only do water changes if needed.

This is twice the dose recommended on the bottle. The bottle says not to exceed 0.6mg/L. Are you sure about these doses? What's your basis for doubling the recommended dose?

Ah, OK, I missed where you said you're not sure.

The label says half the doses you gave, just FYI.

Joon16 · 02/05/2013, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by muppet

This is twice the dose recommended on the bottle. The bottle says not to exceed 0.6mg/L. Are you sure about these doses? What's your basis for doubling the recommended dose?

Ah, OK, I missed where you said you're not sure.

The label says half the doses you gave, just FYI.

Thanks for clearing that up. I couldn't remember off the top of my head. I just wanted to get the point across that if you change 1/2 or 1/4 the water, use 1/2 or 1/4 the dose recommended to the new water you are adding. That way, your "new water" will have the same copper concentration as that in the tank. Thanks for catching that though...I wouldn't want to be responsible for a dead fish.

Palting · 02/05/2013, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Palting

Whatever happened to testing for copper levels? Is that not recommended anymore?

Since nobody answered my question, I decided to search it up myself LOL!!!

Here's a quote from Seachem, makers of Cupramine:

"Remove all invertebrates. Turn off UV sterilizer; remove chemical filtration. If the bottle has a dropper cap, use 20 drops (1 mL) per 40 L (10.5 gallons*) the first day, wait 48 hours, then repeat. On non-dropper caps, each inner ring is 1 mL. In freshwater use half dose. Final copper concentration is 0.5 mg/L (0.25 mg/L in freshwater). Leave at this concentration for 14 days. Do not redose without testing (MultiTest: Copper™). Do not use in conjunction with any other medication. If tank has ever been treated with an ionic copper (e.g. copper chloride, sulfate or citrate), test copper level after initial dosing. Although most fish tolerate Cupramine™ to 0.8 mg/L, it is not advisable to exceed 0.6 mg/L copper. Remove with carbon or CupriSorb™.
In case of eye exposure, promptly & thoroughly wash eyes with water & seek medical attention."

Bold italics mine to emphasize the point. You need to test copper levels. They give a brand, but you can use any good copper test kit like Salifert.

bnumair · 02/05/2013, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Palting

Whatever happened to testing for copper levels? Is that not recommended anymore?

i think u missed my post i repeated twice to test for copper.
here is the post.

never dose ammonia reducing chemicals with cupramine. u will kill all ur fish.
do water changes and adjust the copper levels by testing.
u can also calculate the dose for a 5gal and dose it in ur 5 gal water change, this way ur replacing waste water with freshly mixed saltwater with correct copper dosage. but test ur results.

Palting · 02/05/2013, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnumair

i think u missed my post i repeated twice to test for copper.
here is the post.

never dose ammonia reducing chemicals with cupramine. u will kill all ur fish.
do water changes and adjust the copper levels by testing.
u can also calculate the dose for a 5gal and dose it in ur 5 gal water change, this way ur replacing waste water with freshly mixed saltwater with correct copper dosage. but test ur results.

My bad. Guess it bears repeating, though

.

bnumair · 02/05/2013, 12:48 PM

lol yes cant enforce it enough, DONT DOSE ANYTHING UNLESS U CAN TEST FOR IT.

02/05/2013, 12:51 AM	#1
SomethingClever Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 3	Emergency Ich Question Hi, I'm sure my Flame Angel, Chromis, and Clown have Ich. I have moved them into the qt tank. I bought some cupramine, and a test kit. I gave the first dose of cupramine today, the bottle says dose again in 48 hours.. So my questions are... since they are in a qt tank for a long time, how do I keep the copper levels high enough to kill the Ich, while keeping the water parameters stable.. Meaning.. these fish are swimming in a 10 gal tank dosed with copper, they are still making ammonia? I would do a water change to lessen the ammonia, but the copper levels would also decrease... Should I use a product like amquell when ever I feel necessary? will I do a water change and re dose copper? water changes are fine for me, but constant dosing with copper seems like an accident waiting to happen. ok.. If any one has had the same problem, or questions/solutions let me know..

02/05/2013, 07:41 AM	#3
bnumair Dr. Reef at ur service Join Date: May 2009 Location: Tulsa, Ok, USA Posts: 7,751 Blog Entries: 15	never dose ammonia reducing chemicals with cupramine. u will kill all ur fish. do water changes and adjust the copper levels by testing. u can also calculate the dose for a 5gal and dose it in ur 5 gal water change, this way ur replacing waste water with freshly mixed saltwater with correct copper dosage. but test ur results. __________________ Water Quality: NO3 0,Phos 0,Cal 440,Alk 7.5,Mag 1300 "Reef Fast, You Crash, Reef Slow, You Pass" Mike's Reef 3:16 Current Tank Info: 350g DT,95g sump, 50g Frag tank, 4800gph return 4x Sea swirls. 6x AI Vega Color. 200# Pukani rock, dual recirculating skimmer, Biopellet, GFO Carbon rx's, Cal rx. Closed loop. 1.5hp chiller, genesis renew. Apex & RKE

02/05/2013, 08:45 AM	#5
Palting Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Ohio Posts: 6,912	Whatever happened to testing for copper levels? Is that not recommended anymore? BTW, just to emphasize for anyone else just reading, only copper, hyposalinity or the tank transfer method work to get rid of and cure marine Ich. I've tried all others, garlic being one of them and "reef safe" meds being another. They are all silly nonsense that cost money, and can lose fish in the long run from recurring infestation. I did hyposalinity and continue to do it prophylactically. __________________ Anything I post is just an opinion. One of many in this hobby. Believe and follow at your own risk of rapid and complete annihilation of all life in your tank :) Current Tank Info: Incept 3/2010, 150 RR, 50g sump, 20g fuge, 150w 15K MH x3, T5 actinics x8, moonlight LED x6, 1400gph return, Koralia 1400 x4, 300 g skimmer, 4 tangs, 2 mandarins, 2 perc, 6 line, 3 cardinals, 2 firefish, SPS, LPS, zoas, palys, shrooms, clam

02/05/2013, 10:35 AM	#7
muppet Misanthrope Join Date: May 2010 Location: Plainville, CT Posts: 2,759	Does the bottle really say to re-dose in 48 hours? I have Seachem Cupramine and I swear mine doesn't say that. I'll look again when I get home. I thought that the concentration of copper is generally expected to stay pretty much static if there's no filtration/carbon/etc in your QT. __________________ Vertex IN-100 Skimmer 5g fuge area in the works JBJ Ocean Pulse 1600GPH wavemaker CoralVue 4x54 fixture running?: 2xATI Blue Plus, 1xRed Sea Pink, 1xRed Sea 12K, 10x1w LED blue moonlights Current Tank Info: Deep Blue 75G RR with 20H sump

02/05/2013, 12:48 PM	#13
bnumair Dr. Reef at ur service Join Date: May 2009 Location: Tulsa, Ok, USA Posts: 7,751 Blog Entries: 15	lol yes cant enforce it enough, DONT DOSE ANYTHING UNLESS U CAN TEST FOR IT. __________________ Water Quality: NO3 0,Phos 0,Cal 440,Alk 7.5,Mag 1300 "Reef Fast, You Crash, Reef Slow, You Pass" Mike's Reef 3:16 Current Tank Info: 350g DT,95g sump, 50g Frag tank, 4800gph return 4x Sea swirls. 6x AI Vega Color. 200# Pukani rock, dual recirculating skimmer, Biopellet, GFO Carbon rx's, Cal rx. Closed loop. 1.5hp chiller, genesis renew. Apex & RKE

02/05/2013, 07:29 AM	#2
Joon16 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 119	Just redose the copper. When you do water changes, do 5g (16 drops of cupramine) or 2.5g (8 drops cupramine), whatever amount is easier for you to know how much copper you will need to get back to the .5. I'm not sure if I have the drops correct since I'm at work and dont have the bottle but I think its 32 drops per 10g for the .5 concentration. Therefore, just cut the dose in half for 5g and in half again for 2.5 g I would get a Seachem Ammonia Alert badge too. Then you will know if ammonia gets high and if a water change is needed. I know you CANNOT use Prime while dosing Cupramine but I'm not 100% sure with Amquel. I would be safe and use neither. Only do water changes if needed.

02/05/2013, 07:56 AM	#4
AdamDeMamp Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 153	If the fish are eating well I would just leave them alone and feed them garlic enriched foods. They will pull through just fine. I found chems and dips just **** them off more.