Sump plumbing and setup help

[dougdstecklein]

I have been researching for a couple weeks so I am becoming familiar with sump basics, but I still have some unanswered questions. I almost purchased glass at Lowes tonight but I want to make sure I am doing this right so I held off. I am hoping to get this done tomorrow, so my GE1 silicone can start curing.

1) How tall can I make my baffles? How many gallons of water will drain into the sump in a power outage? And how many inches will that add to my sump?

I want it deep, but don't want a disaster if the power goes out.
-90 gallon DST with corner overflow 24" tall
-29 gallon sump 18" tall
-I plan on having 3 stages/ 1st stage- protein skimmer 18" tall(I can prop it up if I need to)/ 2nd stage- refugium-DSB / 3rd stage- return pump
-durso standpipe just below overflow/ return line drilled just under water line

2) Lowes only has 3/16" thick glass. Will this suffice for the baffles?

3) Is 4 baffles enough for my setup?

-1 baffle after 1st stage/ 3 baffles(bubble trap) after refugium

4) Plumbing?!?!?

-1 7/8" diameter drain holes in bottom of corner overflow
RETURN LINE
I am using a mag 7 pump which has a 1/2" output.
I found a bulkhead fitting at Lowes that will work for the return line. It has a 2 1/8" outside diameter and 1/2" inside diameter.
DRAIN LINE
Since my drain hole is 1 7/8" I would like to find a bulkhead fitting with an inside diameter of at least an inch, but I couldn't find anything at Lowes.
I thought about flexible tubing, but am open to opinions.

Thanks in advance for the help. I forgot how much work is involved in setting up a reef tank.

Doug

[worm5406]

Originally Posted by dougdstecklein

I have been researching for a couple weeks so I am becoming familiar with sump basics, but I still have some unanswered questions. I almost purchased glass at Lowes tonight but I want to make sure I am doing this right so I held off. I am hoping to get this done tomorrow, so my GE1 silicone can start curing.

Good. Go ahead and get it. Are you cutting it?

Originally Posted by dougdstecklein

1) How tall can I make my baffles? How many gallons of water will drain into the sump in a power outage? And how many inches will that add to my sump?

Make your baffles the tallest at the input (skimmer/filter socks)
Are you running a skimmer? My skimmer holds 2.5 gal of water.

At the below measurements I would make my first section (I am giving them backward so be careful) 4 inches from the bottom lip of sump tank.

Make a bubble trap with the exit at 4.5 inches from the bottom lip of the sump.

The fuge I would make the exit at 5 inches from the top and make another bubble trap with the exit at 7 inches from the top.

The open space will give you a lot of a power outage zone.

Granted all these are not exact measurements. A lot more factors would play in for me. I would fine tune them some, but that is shooting from the hip with a calculator only, no drawing it out.

Originally Posted by dougdstecklein

I want it deep, but don't want a disaster if the power goes out.
-90 gallon DST with corner overflow 24" tall

3.75 galons per inch. Look at the overflow. Most have the water 1/2+/- up the grates. Then the low return point would be about an inch below that. Depending on a few things.

To be safe you are looking at 7 gallons as a buffer just for the overflow to settle after the return pump goes off.

Originally Posted by dougdstecklein

-29 gallon sump 18" tall

1.6 galons per inch at a minimum I would leave 5 inches of NO water area when running all pumps. (I would more likely go with 6-7 gap of no water)

[dougdstecklein]

Thanks Worm5406,
I have been running around trying to get equipment today. I agree with your calculations. I will either go with 13" or 12" baffles. I am leaning towards 12" to play it safe. That will give me 6" of empty tank. I will put 3 baffles for the bubble trap after the skimmer, but I think I can get away with two baffles for the 2nd bubble trap(over then under). I'm still not sure about Lowes' glass. I think it might actually be 3/32" thick. I may call my local glass store instead.

[worm5406]

I got the acrylic, the thick stuff.

[SGT_York]

Acrylic is easier but more expensive, for bulkheads bulkreefsupply, marinedepot, or many other good websites sell them, check the sponsors section and purchase one there. Get familiar as most items for salt water are not sold at local hardwood stores.

Mag 7 will be very little flow, make sure you have some good powerheads and monitor your temperature closely. If it fluxuates you will need to buy a better pump or move the heater to your display tank.

Plan for baffles sounds good, if there will be a significant deviation in height over your last baffle you will need to add another over to reduce the bubbles from the waterfall from going into your pump.

[dougdstecklein]

I was able to find a bulkhead at my LFS today. I believe it is 1 inch. I was a little surprised that with a 1 7/8 hole in the tank I would only get 1 inch inside diameter on my bulkhead.
Will that small of a drain be able to handle 400 gallons an hour?

I will definately keep an eye on my temperature. I have another heater in the mail. I am hoping my DST water flow will be around 4000 gallons/hour with the power heads.

Thanks for the advice.

I guess now I wait a couple days for this silicone to cure.

[SGT_York]

~350 GPH with headloss you should be fine with a 1" however it will be louder than most prefer. I strongly recommend using 2, 1" drains and plumbing a herbie, I gurantee you will be thankful later on if you do.

[dougdstecklein]

Never heard of a herbie, but I will definately look into it since this tank will be 3 feet from my bed. I just dont know how i would run my return if i used both holes as drains.
I was going to try making a bulkhead myself with a bushing, gasket, and threaded male thingamajig. I think that would give me a 1.5" inside diameter. Would that help with noise at all?

[SGT_York]

Larger is always better, the sound is made when a section of pipe is full of water which creates a siphon then slurps air when there is not enough water to siphon. larger pipes mean more water before loud noises, search for durso stand pipes to find out the best method using one pipe.

Google herbie and you will see good methods, for the return you'd have to run the return behind the tank.

There is no metal in your gasket thingamajig right?

[GroktheCube]

I'd strongly recommend running a herbie style drain with one siphon and one dry backup. Much more quiet, much safer, no bubbles in sump.

If you really only want an air assisted drain (durso), I'd definitely go for at least 2" piping as SGT York suggested.

The thin glass from Lowest may not be thick enough for baffles.

I'd recommend putting the bubble trap after the skimmer, rather than after the refugium.

It might also work better to put the refugium on the far side of the tank, with the return in the middle chamber, and tee off the return (or use a separate pump) to move water to the fuge. This would allow for a higher water level in the fuge if you want it.

For my 120 I just did a 2 chamber sump. Skimmer in the first chamber, return, heaters, and reactors in the second. I'm building a separate tank that will go next to the DT to use as a fuge. Bigger and more functional fuge + bigger and more function sump = win/win!

[dougdstecklein]

Well the sump is built already, so I can't change the layout. I did end up putting the 3 baffle bubble trap before the fuge though. Also a 2 baffle trap before the return.
I am starting to freak out a little about this overflow. I definately don't want the main tank to overflow if the standpipe gets clogged. I thought about buying some kind of float or sensor that would turn the return pump off if the main tank water level got to high.
If I do it "herbie style", I've got to find some way to run the return line over the back of the tank and some how secure it so it doesn't start flying around my room like a firehose.

[GroktheCube]

Originally Posted by dougdstecklein

Well the sump is built already, so I can't change the layout. I did end up putting the 3 baffle bubble trap before the fuge though. Also a 2 baffle trap before the return.
I am starting to freak out a little about this overflow. I definately don't want the main tank to overflow if the standpipe gets clogged. I thought about buying some kind of float or sensor that would turn the return pump off if the main tank water level got to high.
If I do it "herbie style", I've got to find some way to run the return line over the back of the tank and some how secure it so it doesn't start flying around my room like a firehose.

Imho, an emergency drain is pretty necessary. Its very easy for a single drain to clog.

Just use pipe clamps. On my return, I have one set screwed into the back of the stand and another suction cupped to the top trim.

PVC is quite stiff, it won't fly around like a fire hose without clamps, but it will vibrate more and put more stress on joints.

[worm5406]

If you go from hard plumbing to a barbed connection you can use the filter hose holder from like an FX5 and let the return go into the tank and be held with no problems.

[dougdstecklein]

Ok, you guys talked me into two drains. I purchased all my plumbing already, but at least I haven't started assembling it. I have a couple more questions now.
Can I just use flexible pipe for my return? It would be so much easier and would have no sharp turns.

I thought I had the dorso standpipe figured out, but I guess not. Now that i am going with 2 drains, should I just go with 1" I.D. or bigger if i can? My flow will be around 400gph.

Is the emergency drain a durso style at the overflow level and then the main drain just an open pipe 6" below?

[GroktheCube]

The main drain is usually a downtrend U shape like a durso, but with no holes and completely underwater. On the pipe down to the sump, you install a gate valve, allowing you to control flow. The emergency is just an open pipe some distance above the main drain, and above the water level. Mine is just about an inch below my overflow weir.

You control the water level in the overflow box with the gate valve. A 1" siphon with a 24" drop will easily flow 1500+ gph wide open, so you'll be fine with 1" pipe.

Generally PVC is better than flexible tubing because it has a larger ID, doesn't get as brittle with age, and doesn't allow light through. If you use flexible tube, I would definitely recommend some that doesn't let light through. You can order those fluval or eheim suction cup tube holders from amazon for under $10. Getting the PVC pipe up there is pretty easy though. Unless you need to make a very sharp turn, two 45* elbows work well to get from the pump to the back of the tank.

IMHO running the return up the back and either over the top or through a hole is a better way to get water back to the tank. It allows for more flexibility in terms of where you direct flow.

[dougdstecklein]

Hey guys, just wanted to thank you for the help with my tank. I am so glad I set up the herbie overflow, it is completely quiet and failsafe. I think the gate valve(not ball valve) is a necessity. It takes very minute adjustments to get it dialed in. I attached a picture of it working.

[GroktheCube]

I'm glad it's working out for you! I'm quite satisfied with how mine performs.