Sump building

[mkoop]

Hey all -

I am building a 75 gallon sump this weekend to go with the 180 that I will am picking up tomorrow. I have a few questions about the basic layout differences in sumps...

I am looking at the difference between a skimmer > return < fuge setup and a skimmer > fuge > return setup.

I have read that a skimmer > return < fuge set up is nice for being able to fully control the water flow to the fuge.

I was hoping to have a few more opinions on these set ups and some of the pro-cons of each method that I may not realize.

Thanks!

[cap032]

Originally Posted by mkoop

Hey all -

I am building a 75 gallon sump this weekend to go with the 180 that I will am picking up tomorrow. I have a few questions about the basic layout differences in sumps...

I am looking at the difference between a skimmer > return < fuge setup and a skimmer > fuge > return setup.

I have read that a skimmer > return < fuge set up is nice for being able to fully control the water flow to the fuge.

I was hoping to have a few more opinions on these set ups and some of the pro-cons of each method that I may not realize.

Thanks!

I recently set up a skimmer-return-fuge. I Td off one the drains andnput a valve on it so that I can directly feed the fuge and control how much flow it recieves. Unfortunately I dont have any experience to share with you though as my tank has just finished cycling. I like the principle behind the design though. Unless things have changed, slower flow is recommended for the fuge. I dont know who came up with the idea, but I noticed the design on Melevs Reef and had to do it.

[Sonyardo]

I prefer skimmer < return > fuge set up myself. If I were starting from scratch that's what I would do. Then I would have the DT drain to the skimmer section and T off of the return line to feed water to the fuge. If you set it up properly then you will be able to have a very efficient sump/fuge. This set up also keeps the fuge cleaner over the long run and allows you to regulate how much flow goes thru the fuge. More control allows for more options down the road on what you can do with the fuge without having to completely rework the sump.

[mkoop]

Thanks -- I think the skimmer > return < fuge setup is what I will do as well. I found a really good diagram on the boards here I will attach for any other newbies looking to build their sump like this...

I think it would be a great idea to have a sticky with different sump designs people have done, maybe there isn't enough variance to make it worth while, but I feel a central point to view designs like this at various sizes would be great. (It took me a bit to find a 75g with dimensions and everything like this laid out for someone like me who is not very great at DIY type things but are willing to try to learn).

I think this design would also fit what Sony is describing, I am pretty certain it does, though I am still learning plumbing so even though I have a good idea this is how it is working I may be completely off.

[Sonyardo]

That looks like a good set up to me

[mkoop]

I picked up my DT and it has 2 returns and 2 overflows it would seem, I was prepared for one of each. I am assuming it is this way due to tank size.

Do I just merge the two overflows into one and run that single pipe into the skimmer chamber then? I also assume I should T the return above the split for the fuge (likely above the flow control valve?).

Just want to make sure I got my ducks in a row before assembling this all this weekend.

[tsharrer]

Im assuming one of your overflows is for emergencies? and you want to have them separate or you will have one heck of a noise! :/

[whiteshark]

Originally Posted by mkoop

I picked up my DT and it has 2 returns and 2 overflows it would seem, I was prepared for one of each. I am assuming it is this way due to tank size.

Do I just merge the two overflows into one and run that single pipe into the skimmer chamber then? I also assume I should T the return above the split for the fuge (likely above the flow control valve?).

Just want to make sure I got my ducks in a row before assembling this all this weekend.

I wouldn't combine the two drains. That defeats the purpose of two drains, which is to have a backup if one gets clogged.

[mkoop]

Originally Posted by whiteshark

I wouldn't combine the two drains. That defeats the purpose of two drains, which is to have a backup if one gets clogged.

Good point, I should have thought of that...


Is it okay to split the return or should I have two pumps?

I would think two pumps might not be a bad idea for redundancy -- similar logic as the drains, but would heat issues be caused with that? I wouldn't think a second pump would be a major heat issue in total volume of 355 but I should really stop taking anything for granted prior to asking in this hobby... haha.

[Dotterer]

Originally Posted by mkoop

Thanks -- I think the skimmer > return < fuge setup is what I will do as well. I found a really good diagram on the boards here I will attach for any other newbies looking to build their sump like this...

I think it would be a great idea to have a sticky with different sump designs people have done, maybe there isn't enough variance to make it worth while, but I feel a central point to view designs like this at various sizes would be great. (It took me a bit to find a 75g with dimensions and everything like this laid out for someone like me who is not very great at DIY type things but are willing to try to learn).

I think this design would also fit what Sony is describing, I am pretty certain it does, though I am still learning plumbing so even though I have a good idea this is how it is working I may be completely off.

Any idea on how much that would reduce the GPH on the return? I know it depends on how far open you left it I guess, but curious what the loss would be

[mkoop]

Originally Posted by Dotterer

Any idea on how much that would reduce the GPH on the return? I know it depends on how far open you left it I guess, but curious what the loss would be

I'm not sure exactly how much the split removes.

I know that having 2x 1.25" drains will put me at 1820GPH drain.

I plan to keep the return valve to the sump around 15-20% open tops.

So for this I tacked on an additional 20%(I'm not sure if this is right, but did so as more of a precautionary measure), so now we are sitting at 2184 GPH minimum for return pump requirement. I also took the split into consideration, I read that every elbow or split you have on your return you need to add 1 to the head rating. That being said, my choices are a bit limited if I go single pump it will likely end up being a mag 24, dual returns or downsizing the drains from 1.25 to 1" could open up some more options as well.


Why did I choose to feed the fuge from the return?

Considering I plan on my pump being a bit overpowered for the job, I don't feel this will cause an issue. By feeding the fuge from the return line it should decrease back-pressure on the pump and prolong its overall life (from what I have read -- again not from personal experience).

However, I have also read that feeding the fuge from the drain instead of the already skimmed return may aid in increasing pod production I have read some claims that the skimmer removes nutrients necessary for pod growth.

That being said, I am not sure which way is best as I have no experience with either, and am just a newbie tryin to do it right...

[mkoop]

Originally Posted by mkoop

I plan to keep the return valve to the sump around 15-20% open tops.

And by this I ment return valve to the fuge... just got home, must have been too long edit button isn't here anymore.

[dml931]

so i just finished building my reef setup about 4 months ago. i have a 75g DT with a 30L as a sump going skim->return<-fuge with the beananimal drain system in place. i drilled my own tank so it would have the 3 drains 'siphon-emergency-air assisted' and 2 return inlets. My siphon line feeds into the skimmer section through a sock and handles 80% of the drain flow. the air assisted line feeds the fuge with the remaining 20%. in the fuge is a shallow layer of rock rubble and chaeto lit with LED 10,000k on a cycle opposite of the DT.

The return line has a T that also feeds the fuge that is controlled with a ball valve. I've never opened it. once i tried to open it, but the flow through the fuge was too much and became to loud spilling over the baffle. even at lower flows, the 20% it recieved from the DT was enough to sustain .06 PO3 and 3ppm nitrates with a decent stock of fish and inverts being fed every other day, tested today with the red sea kits.

my suggestion is to go with the beananimal drain system as its fool proof, spill proof, self regulating, and most of all - dead quiet! if your tank allows it of course. then i wouldn't run any plumbing into the fuge from the return line as you wont need it with what you get from the DT. that too can be adjusted with the valves on both drain lines to increase flow through the fuge if desired.

here's a pic of the back of the tank during my plumbing leak check just after i finished the build. the only difference between what the pic is showing and what i have now, is that i relocated the valve on the siphon line (gate valve) to be much lower, almost to the sump. reason being is with more water volume above the valve (and potential air pocket), the siphon will start sooner and start to handle the appropriate flow much sooner than when its placed where it is in the pic shown. like almost 20 min difference.

[SaltLifeBob]

Originally Posted by mkoop

Thanks -- I think the skimmer > return < fuge setup is what I will do as well. I found a really good diagram on the boards here I will attach for any other newbies looking to build their sump like this...

I think it would be a great idea to have a sticky with different sump designs people have done, maybe there isn't enough variance to make it worth while, but I feel a central point to view designs like this at various sizes would be great. (It took me a bit to find a 75g with dimensions and everything like this laid out for someone like me who is not very great at DIY type things but are willing to try to learn).

I think this design would also fit what Sony is describing, I am pretty certain it does, though I am still learning plumbing so even though I have a good idea this is how it is working I may be completely off.

Very nice & well thought out

[mkoop]

I ended up going with two seperate pumps, one rated ~1200gph will feed a return and the fuge with a T as shown above.

The second has an adjustable rate feature between 400-800gph that will feed the return to the left megaflow.

Also not in the design is a second drain that will stretch from the right megaflow to the left skimmer compartment.

The redundancy sold me and I don't think heat will be much of an issue considering total water volume of 355.

I have all my pvc and am working on getting everything laid out. I still need to get my baffles cut but no glass shops open on the weekends so that will have to happen this coming week.

[Dotterer]

Originally Posted by mkoop

I ended up going with two seperate pumps, one rated ~1200gph will feed a return and the fuge with a T as shown above.

The second has an adjustable rate feature between 400-800gph that will feed the return to the left megaflow.

Also not in the design is a second drain that will stretch from the right megaflow to the left skimmer compartment.

The redundancy sold me and I don't think heat will be much of an issue considering total water volume of 355.

I have all my pvc and am working on getting everything laid out. I still need to get my baffles cut but no glass shops open on the weekends so that will have to happen this coming week.

I think that's the way I'll go as well - keep the full flow on the DT, and put a smaller, low flow to the fuge.

[worm5406]

Mkoop... I am researching building a new 75g sump. Do you have any pictures or did you decide on something different??

[Savant]

This is how I plumbed my 2 returns/drains for a herbie
I used a 1" return then the manifold wye to reduce to 3/4 (tank came drilled with 3/4 returns)
2013-06-18 17.56.25.jpg