Super loud durso drain system...should I try a herbie setup?

DavidinGA · 03/28/2013, 12:19 PM

I'm in the building process of my 210gal tank and just recently got it all plumbed and found it to be SUPER loud as the drains dump in the sump (super turbulent air/water mix going on). It was a used 210gal all glass brand tank I bought that came with 2 AGA mega overflows

Two holes in each overflow

I am using an Eheim 1262 return pump (not tee'd off anywhere) and I have about 6ft of height from the floor to the tank; so I'm probably at what 700gph in the tank?

My drain lines are 1.25in spa flex. One goes straight down and the other has a T and a valve that drains some into the separate fuge area.

My drains in the overflow boxes are dead silent and constant water levels but the drains in the sump are crazy loud and filled with micro and big bubbles.

I'm guessing my two mega flows can't handle 700gph of flow without creating a turbulent flow? I tried to regulate the amount of air going into the megaflows by partial capping the holes on the top with my fingers but it didn't seem to do much good; cover them too much and I got surging and if just partially covered it didn't make much (if any) difference.

Should I give up on the durso and try a herbie style setup (one full siphon and one backup)? Or are their some other options to stop the turbulent cascading into the sump?

I understand with the herbie style that I would use a gate/ball valve on the main drain to regulate the flow...would this have any benefit on my current durso setup to try to minimize the excess air in the lines or would it just create surging?

So yay or nay on a herbie setup?

Thanks
David

...oh I can't do a bean animal since my tank is flush against the wall

Edit: Forgot to add my drain lines in the sump are underwater. I tried them out of the water, through a sock, against the glass, inside a 4"pvc pipe with holes drilled in it, all to no avail...

amutti · 03/28/2013, 12:32 PM

Too much flow into the tank would be my guess. Have you tried restricting it?

DavidinGA · 03/28/2013, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amutti

Too much flow into the tank would be my guess. Have you tried restricting it?

I didn't run a valve on the return as this is a little pump for a 210gal and I'm not feeding any other equipment off the return.

Drae · 03/28/2013, 12:56 PM

Herbie and the bean are the only way to go.

DavidinGA · 03/28/2013, 01:09 PM

So for the herbie I would just build two new standpipes one with a 90degree down for the main siphon drain (6-8" lower than backup) and the other one I would put a 90degree up as the backup/emergency/slight trickle line right? Then a gate/ball valve on the main line to fine tune the drain speed?

java · 03/28/2013, 01:22 PM

No slight trickle in the emergency but yes everything else sounds good. although i dont think they need to be so far apart.

DavidinGA · 03/28/2013, 01:25 PM

Is it okay if I make my main drain my line that also T's off and feeds my fuge or will that cause problems? (I would put the gate/ball valve before the T)

Pastey · 03/28/2013, 01:27 PM

Get that tee and valve off your drain. To supply your fuge, you should be supplying it with your return pump and tee/valve.

DavidinGA · 03/28/2013, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pastey

Get that tee and valve off your drain. To supply your fuge, you should be supplying it with your return pump and tee/valve.

Will it cause problems with the herbie drain or what?

Pastey · 03/28/2013, 01:56 PM

Everything I've always been told is that you should keep your drains as simple and direct as possible. I can't say it will or won't interfere with your herbie or not, though.

DavidinGA · 03/28/2013, 07:35 PM

What's the point of the elbows on the herbie drain? I've seen some with them and some with just a straight pipe and strainer.

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keithhays · 03/28/2013, 07:47 PM

That is NOT a Durso drain. That is something, but I am not sure what. Given that it looks like your drains are 1" or less, I would go with the full siphon method or you will likely have a drainage issue. i.e. too much flow in too little pipe space. I will never under stand why tanks are even built with 1" drains.

DavidinGA · 03/29/2013, 10:48 AM

So... No one has a pvc gate valve in my area. Will a ball valve work (after long tedious adjustments) for a Herbie setup?

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Aquaaddicted · 03/29/2013, 12:57 PM

I did a Herbie and it is almost silent except for some humming from various pumps definitely get the gate valves ball valves are not precise enough brs has them get the better ones they can be taken apart to be cleaned

DopeCantWin · 03/29/2013, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquaaddicted

I did a Herbie and it is almost silent except for some humming from various pumps definitely get the gate valves ball valves are not precise enough brs has them get the better ones they can be taken apart to be cleaned

+1. Redoing my overflow in a Herbie silenced waterflow in my 210. I have roughly 2400 gph coming out of the return into the tank.

Pastey · 03/29/2013, 01:12 PM

Looks like it was a durso with an emergency standpipe.

MrClam · 03/29/2013, 01:54 PM

+1 on the gate valve. I set up my Herbie with ball valves because I had to order gate and it is a pain at times to adjust. It can be done but for the money its worth it to get a gate.

Not sure why you have such a big gap (6-8") between emergency and main drain? (I may just be confused) Remember that the emergency is the height that the water will rise to in the event that the main gets clogged. So take into account the extra water that will be pulled from the sump in order to fill that overflow volume. Id suggest setting the emergency drain at about 1/2 above the water height in the overflow. For herbie no water should normally be going through the emergency drain.

DavidinGA · 03/30/2013, 08:19 PM

Well I plumb some stand pipes and made a Herbie setup but I never found a local store with gate valves so I used a ball valve I had laying around. I can't seem to get it dialed down to keep the emergency dry it always has a trickle. I'm guessing it's because this clumsy ball valve I have isn't very easy to get fine tune.

I went from super super load drainage in the sump to whisper quiet though!

Now I need to order a ball valve and maybe a strainer or two. Did you guys add a strainer or drill some holes in the pvc and cap the stand pipes or something to keep the pipe clear of snails/others?

Sent by Samsung Galaxy Note 2 and Tapatalk 2

MrClam · 03/31/2013, 06:37 PM

I drilled the PVC. I had issues with strainers because my snails would crawl on top of the mesh and slow flow enough that it would cause the emergency to come into play. There was no algae on the strainer so I swear they just did it to antagonize me.

GroktheCube · 03/31/2013, 07:34 PM

I'd definitely order a gate valve.

In my Herbie setup, I just have a downturned elbow siphon, and a straight open pipe.

If a snail ever climbs down the drain, I have the emergency. If the emergency ever fails, I have a float switch on the apex that will turn off the return pump.

Strainers seem like they'd reduce flow and increase the amount of fine tuning needed to keep the emergency dry.

03/28/2013, 12:19 PM	#1
DavidinGA Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 2,393	Super loud durso drain system...should I try a herbie setup? I'm in the building process of my 210gal tank and just recently got it all plumbed and found it to be SUPER loud as the drains dump in the sump (super turbulent air/water mix going on). It was a used 210gal all glass brand tank I bought that came with 2 AGA mega overflows Two holes in each overflow I am using an Eheim 1262 return pump (not tee'd off anywhere) and I have about 6ft of height from the floor to the tank; so I'm probably at what 700gph in the tank? My drain lines are 1.25in spa flex. One goes straight down and the other has a T and a valve that drains some into the separate fuge area. My drains in the overflow boxes are dead silent and constant water levels but the drains in the sump are crazy loud and filled with micro and big bubbles. I'm guessing my two mega flows can't handle 700gph of flow without creating a turbulent flow? I tried to regulate the amount of air going into the megaflows by partial capping the holes on the top with my fingers but it didn't seem to do much good; cover them too much and I got surging and if just partially covered it didn't make much (if any) difference. Should I give up on the durso and try a herbie style setup (one full siphon and one backup)? Or are their some other options to stop the turbulent cascading into the sump? I understand with the herbie style that I would use a gate/ball valve on the main drain to regulate the flow...would this have any benefit on my current durso setup to try to minimize the excess air in the lines or would it just create surging? So yay or nay on a herbie setup? Thanks David ...oh I can't do a bean animal since my tank is flush against the wall Edit: Forgot to add my drain lines in the sump are underwater. I tried them out of the water, through a sock, against the glass, inside a 4"pvc pipe with holes drilled in it, all to no avail...

03/28/2013, 07:35 PM	#11
DavidinGA Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 2,393	What's the point of the elbows on the herbie drain? I've seen some with them and some with just a straight pipe and strainer. Sent by Samsung Galaxy Note 2 and Tapatalk 2 __________________ Giant money pit, but it's a happy pit ;) Current tank: 6ft 210gal SPS, 3~eBay led boxes, 4~80w T5's, sro3000int, RW20's, Reef Angel, reactors, pumps, rocks, sand, yadda yadda yadda...

03/29/2013, 10:48 AM	#13
DavidinGA Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 2,393	So... No one has a pvc gate valve in my area. Will a ball valve work (after long tedious adjustments) for a Herbie setup? Sent by Samsung Galaxy Note 2 and Tapatalk 2 __________________ Giant money pit, but it's a happy pit ;) Current tank: 6ft 210gal SPS, 3~eBay led boxes, 4~80w T5's, sro3000int, RW20's, Reef Angel, reactors, pumps, rocks, sand, yadda yadda yadda...

03/30/2013, 08:19 PM	#18
DavidinGA Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 2,393	Well I plumb some stand pipes and made a Herbie setup but I never found a local store with gate valves so I used a ball valve I had laying around. I can't seem to get it dialed down to keep the emergency dry it always has a trickle. I'm guessing it's because this clumsy ball valve I have isn't very easy to get fine tune. I went from super super load drainage in the sump to whisper quiet though! Now I need to order a ball valve and maybe a strainer or two. Did you guys add a strainer or drill some holes in the pvc and cap the stand pipes or something to keep the pipe clear of snails/others? Sent by Samsung Galaxy Note 2 and Tapatalk 2 __________________ Giant money pit, but it's a happy pit ;) Current tank: 6ft 210gal SPS, 3~eBay led boxes, 4~80w T5's, sro3000int, RW20's, Reef Angel, reactors, pumps, rocks, sand, yadda yadda yadda...

03/28/2013, 12:32 PM	#2
amutti Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: MA Posts: 357	Too much flow into the tank would be my guess. Have you tried restricting it?

03/28/2013, 12:56 PM	#4
Drae RAIDER NATION! Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: City of sin... Posts: 3,476	Herbie and the bean are the only way to go.

03/28/2013, 01:09 PM	#5
DavidinGA Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 2,393	So for the herbie I would just build two new standpipes one with a 90degree down for the main siphon drain (6-8" lower than backup) and the other one I would put a 90degree up as the backup/emergency/slight trickle line right? Then a gate/ball valve on the main line to fine tune the drain speed?

03/28/2013, 01:22 PM	#6
java Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 325	No slight trickle in the emergency but yes everything else sounds good. although i dont think they need to be so far apart.

03/28/2013, 01:25 PM	#7
DavidinGA Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 2,393	Is it okay if I make my main drain my line that also T's off and feeds my fuge or will that cause problems? (I would put the gate/ball valve before the T)

03/28/2013, 01:27 PM	#8
Pastey Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 835	Get that tee and valve off your drain. To supply your fuge, you should be supplying it with your return pump and tee/valve.

03/28/2013, 01:56 PM	#10
Pastey Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 835	Everything I've always been told is that you should keep your drains as simple and direct as possible. I can't say it will or won't interfere with your herbie or not, though.

03/28/2013, 07:47 PM	#12
keithhays Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Tennessee Posts: 1,259	That is NOT a Durso drain. That is something, but I am not sure what. Given that it looks like your drains are 1" or less, I would go with the full siphon method or you will likely have a drainage issue. i.e. too much flow in too little pipe space. I will never under stand why tanks are even built with 1" drains.

03/29/2013, 12:57 PM	#14
Aquaaddicted Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 2	I did a Herbie and it is almost silent except for some humming from various pumps definitely get the gate valves ball valves are not precise enough brs has them get the better ones they can be taken apart to be cleaned

03/29/2013, 01:12 PM	#16
Pastey Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 835	Looks like it was a durso with an emergency standpipe.

03/29/2013, 01:54 PM	#17
MrClam Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 557	+1 on the gate valve. I set up my Herbie with ball valves because I had to order gate and it is a pain at times to adjust. It can be done but for the money its worth it to get a gate. Not sure why you have such a big gap (6-8") between emergency and main drain? (I may just be confused) Remember that the emergency is the height that the water will rise to in the event that the main gets clogged. So take into account the extra water that will be pulled from the sump in order to fill that overflow volume. Id suggest setting the emergency drain at about 1/2 above the water height in the overflow. For herbie no water should normally be going through the emergency drain.

03/31/2013, 06:37 PM	#19
MrClam Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 557	I drilled the PVC. I had issues with strainers because my snails would crawl on top of the mesh and slow flow enough that it would cause the emergency to come into play. There was no algae on the strainer so I swear they just did it to antagonize me.

03/31/2013, 07:34 PM	#20
GroktheCube Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 2,063	I'd definitely order a gate valve. In my Herbie setup, I just have a downturned elbow siphon, and a straight open pipe. If a snail ever climbs down the drain, I have the emergency. If the emergency ever fails, I have a float switch on the apex that will turn off the return pump. Strainers seem like they'd reduce flow and increase the amount of fine tuning needed to keep the emergency dry.