Discouraged, second fish died

Missoula Sherry · 04/05/2013, 11:10 PM

This morning my long nose hawk fish was dead. I left last Friday and he seemed fine: eating, respiration normal, fins clear. Four days later when I came back, his gill movement was rapid and he had quit eating. I had a friend feeding while I was gone. He wasn't being harassed and I have no idea why he died. I had him in my tank for ~20 days and he was eating voraciously, maybe too voraciously.

A couple of weeks ago my royal gramma disappeared from view and I now presume it's dead. My tank is newly set up but at no time have the water parameters been "unhealthy", even after the gramma "disappeared".

I consider this a high loss rate and am discouraged so feedback would be welcome.

Jerry W · 04/05/2013, 11:32 PM

Tank size? what all is in the tank and how long has it been set-up? Please post your water parameters; salinity, pH, temp, nitrates, etc..
what are you feeding? Did you quarantine your fish before putting them into the display? Need some more info on your set-up in order to offer suggestions.

Missoula Sherry · 04/05/2013, 11:54 PM

My tank is 75 gallons and has been set up for a couple of months. My salinity is 1.024, 78F, nitrates 2.5ppm, pH is a bit low at 8.0, phosphates are low but not zero.

I feed a little flake or frozen mysis with Selcon and garlic.

I haven't been using a quarantine tank. My LFS doesn't either. I think I have made a huge mistake by not quarantining. I've been reading the forum about fish disease and I think my tank has marine velvet. The Royal Gramma was rubbing it's body on the sand (flashing?) and has some coppery color on his sides.

If my water parameters sound crazy, it's because I'm not at home and am trying to remember them.

risin · 04/05/2013, 11:56 PM

no discoloration, ie: red spots around the gills? was he near the top of the tank? it sounds like lack of oxygen or high ammonia.

Jerry W · 04/06/2013, 12:02 AM

The parameters you posted are not out of whack but again, these are not the actual numbers from today so I'd be curious as to the real time numbers. So there are no other fish in the tank right now?
Quarantining is often overlooked and sadly most lfs don't do it nor do they recommend it. Was the gramma flashing shortly after you brought it home? Is there live rock in the tank and how much? What kind of filtration are you using? Any inverts in the tank and are they doing well? Sorry for all the questions but trying to narrow down a possible cause.

Showtime1 · 04/06/2013, 11:05 AM

Are you using rodi water

Missoula Sherry · 04/06/2013, 02:15 PM

I didn't see any red or white spots but he was a red and white fish and I'm not very adept at seeing the more subtle disease signs.

The parameters I gave we're from the day before my hawk fish died. I still have a firefish, an orange spot goby, a six line wrasse and some invertebrates. The inverts seem to be doing fine. The gramma was flashing as soon as I got him home.

I started my tank with 80 lb of live sand and 75 lb of live rock and let it cycle before adding anything. I have an Eshopp's RS 100 sump with a filter sock, a PSK? 75 in sump protein skimmer.

Thanks for the questions and help.

eacosta · 04/06/2013, 10:20 PM

I know it sucks, but don't get discouraged. I had my first 2 fish die in quarantine 2 days apart. They both looked healthy and were eating well. Some kind of internal parasite did them in after 2.5 weeks without any signs of distress before it was too late. I had a third fish in there with them and put him in my display tank to save it. He was doing good for about a week and then got sucked into the intake for a hob skimmer. Talk about being slapped in the face as a beginner in the hobby. I just got a new clown about a week ago and all seems well. My quarantine tank is being cycled again for more fish. Good luck and hope it goes a little smoother from here on out.

FTDelta · 04/07/2013, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missoula Sherry

I haven't been using a quarantine tank. My LFS doesn't either.

You just answered your question. Obviously your LFS doesn't know any better himself. Always follow quarantine protocal regardless whether your LFS QT his fish or not. Then again sorry for your loss of your fish. Time to find another LFS.

Reefer_Addickt · 04/07/2013, 12:20 PM

It's sadly part of the hobby.

Their are lots of possible variables to cause death.
1. How was it caught and shipped, from distributor to lfs, then at lfs.
2. The age of the fish when it was caught.
3. Over feeding
4. Parasites (internal and external).. What did it's poop look like. Lumps in stomach?
5. Another tank mate
6. water parameter change - a spike of something perhaps. For instance when the royal gramma went missing, this could have been the start of a spike, as it decomposed.

Watch your remaining fish for any signs, if none found, wait longer. Then when you're 1000% sure nothing is going on in your tank. Find a hobbyist getting rid of a known healthy fish, that's already grown accustomed to tank life.

Missoula Sherry · 04/07/2013, 06:30 PM

Thanks everyone. Quarantine tank is getting put together this week and no new fish for a while.

04/05/2013, 11:10 PM	#1
Missoula Sherry Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 21	Discouraged, second fish died This morning my long nose hawk fish was dead. I left last Friday and he seemed fine: eating, respiration normal, fins clear. Four days later when I came back, his gill movement was rapid and he had quit eating. I had a friend feeding while I was gone. He wasn't being harassed and I have no idea why he died. I had him in my tank for ~20 days and he was eating voraciously, maybe too voraciously. A couple of weeks ago my royal gramma disappeared from view and I now presume it's dead. My tank is newly set up but at no time have the water parameters been "unhealthy", even after the gramma "disappeared". I consider this a high loss rate and am discouraged so feedback would be welcome.

04/05/2013, 11:32 PM	#2
Jerry W Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: PA. Posts: 2,873	Tank size? what all is in the tank and how long has it been set-up? Please post your water parameters; salinity, pH, temp, nitrates, etc.. what are you feeding? Did you quarantine your fish before putting them into the display? Need some more info on your set-up in order to offer suggestions. __________________ Americans sleep peacefully in their beds at night because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. Current Tank Info: 37 gal; pair of mocha clowns, ywg and tiger pistol shrimp

04/06/2013, 12:02 AM	#5
Jerry W Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: PA. Posts: 2,873	The parameters you posted are not out of whack but again, these are not the actual numbers from today so I'd be curious as to the real time numbers. So there are no other fish in the tank right now? Quarantining is often overlooked and sadly most lfs don't do it nor do they recommend it. Was the gramma flashing shortly after you brought it home? Is there live rock in the tank and how much? What kind of filtration are you using? Any inverts in the tank and are they doing well? Sorry for all the questions but trying to narrow down a possible cause. __________________ Americans sleep peacefully in their beds at night because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. Current Tank Info: 37 gal; pair of mocha clowns, ywg and tiger pistol shrimp

04/05/2013, 11:54 PM	#3
Missoula Sherry Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 21	My tank is 75 gallons and has been set up for a couple of months. My salinity is 1.024, 78F, nitrates 2.5ppm, pH is a bit low at 8.0, phosphates are low but not zero. I feed a little flake or frozen mysis with Selcon and garlic. I haven't been using a quarantine tank. My LFS doesn't either. I think I have made a huge mistake by not quarantining. I've been reading the forum about fish disease and I think my tank has marine velvet. The Royal Gramma was rubbing it's body on the sand (flashing?) and has some coppery color on his sides. If my water parameters sound crazy, it's because I'm not at home and am trying to remember them.

04/05/2013, 11:56 PM	#4
risin Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 715	no discoloration, ie: red spots around the gills? was he near the top of the tank? it sounds like lack of oxygen or high ammonia.

04/06/2013, 11:05 AM	#6
Showtime1 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 97	Are you using rodi water

04/06/2013, 02:15 PM	#7
Missoula Sherry Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 21	I didn't see any red or white spots but he was a red and white fish and I'm not very adept at seeing the more subtle disease signs. The parameters I gave we're from the day before my hawk fish died. I still have a firefish, an orange spot goby, a six line wrasse and some invertebrates. The inverts seem to be doing fine. The gramma was flashing as soon as I got him home. I started my tank with 80 lb of live sand and 75 lb of live rock and let it cycle before adding anything. I have an Eshopp's RS 100 sump with a filter sock, a PSK? 75 in sump protein skimmer. Thanks for the questions and help.

04/06/2013, 10:20 PM	#8
eacosta Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: MD Posts: 135	I know it sucks, but don't get discouraged. I had my first 2 fish die in quarantine 2 days apart. They both looked healthy and were eating well. Some kind of internal parasite did them in after 2.5 weeks without any signs of distress before it was too late. I had a third fish in there with them and put him in my display tank to save it. He was doing good for about a week and then got sucked into the intake for a hob skimmer. Talk about being slapped in the face as a beginner in the hobby. I just got a new clown about a week ago and all seems well. My quarantine tank is being cycled again for more fish. Good luck and hope it goes a little smoother from here on out.

04/07/2013, 12:20 PM	#10
Reefer_Addickt Premium Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Oakland Posts: 779	It's sadly part of the hobby. Their are lots of possible variables to cause death. 1. How was it caught and shipped, from distributor to lfs, then at lfs. 2. The age of the fish when it was caught. 3. Over feeding 4. Parasites (internal and external).. What did it's poop look like. Lumps in stomach? 5. Another tank mate 6. water parameter change - a spike of something perhaps. For instance when the royal gramma went missing, this could have been the start of a spike, as it decomposed. Watch your remaining fish for any signs, if none found, wait longer. Then when you're 1000% sure nothing is going on in your tank. Find a hobbyist getting rid of a known healthy fish, that's already grown accustomed to tank life.

04/07/2013, 06:30 PM	#11
Missoula Sherry Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 21	Thanks everyone. Quarantine tank is getting put together this week and no new fish for a while.