Above display refugium or refugium in sump

saltwater2999 · 04/15/2013, 01:49 PM

I have been doing so much research on adding a refugium to my 6 month old tank. I have two ideas so far on what I want to do. So far all I want the refugium for is to supply copepods to the tank to that I could have an endless supply. So I have picked from either an above display tank or convert my sump to have the capability to have a refugium. I would love to get people's opinions and suggestions about me doing this.

Cymonous · 04/15/2013, 02:03 PM

If your sump is big enough, I would just add in a refugium.

saltwater2999 · 04/15/2013, 02:15 PM

I have a 20 gallon sump for a 55 gallon display

-the one thing I am worried about is how everyone says that the return pump is pretty much a blender for the copepods

Cymonous · 04/15/2013, 02:30 PM

not true. Copepods will survive the travel through the pump and plumbing. This is how everyone does this with a sump and fuge.

saltwater2999 · 04/15/2013, 02:34 PM

So your saying that even with having a skimmer attached to the sump and the return pump I shouldn't have any problems with them getting killed off before they arrive to the display

MrClam · 04/15/2013, 02:41 PM

From what I have heard most people think skimmers will kill microfauna. There is some debate about how much life makes it through a return pump unharmed. If it were me I would put a refuge above the tank if you can make it work and have it gravity feed into the DT, as this takes out any question of whether copepods will survive the trip to the DT.

Cymonous · 04/15/2013, 02:46 PM

Sump and skimmer should be fine. The pods are going to go everywhere in your tank. Through pumps, skimmers, filters, powerheads, etc. No matter where you put the fuge.

If you put a fuge above the tank and gravity fed to the DT, how would you get the water to the fuge from the DT?

cloak · 04/15/2013, 02:54 PM

IMO, pods are way too small for the pumps to harm them. (copepods) They should pass through without any issues.

Just as an experiment, grab the largest piece of flake food you can find and put it in a cup of water. Once it's saturated, pour this right by the intake of your return pump. When the flakes come out in the DT, you'll see just how fine the impeller is chopping things up.

nynick · 04/15/2013, 03:40 PM

Some will make it some will not. If you have a particular reason for a pod farm, ie Mandarin or something, a large hob fuge is very good. If not, clownfish don't care if the pod is dead or alive.

saltwater2999 · 04/15/2013, 04:26 PM

Well the reason I want a pod farm because I want a mardarin and I would get the water from the dot to fuge by a power head hooked up to a hose that poors into the fuge.

nynick · 04/15/2013, 05:00 PM

A lot of coral rubble in your display tank is good too or anything big enough to allow pods in but not the mandarin. Depending on the size of your tank you may or may not even need a fuge...or you might need 2 and loads of rubble areas.

If you plan on keeping a Mandarin don't do what I did and get a pair of Wrasse (or anything like them). They spend 100% of their time hunting pods and are incredibly good at it.

cap032 · 04/15/2013, 05:38 PM

As mentioned, some pods will be chop suey and others will make it through. As far as your skimmer, place the refugium in a compatment after the skimmer. Either set up the sump Skimmer-Fuge-Return or Skimmer-Return-Fuge.

dastowers · 04/15/2013, 05:39 PM

My stand alone pod farm is on the right. There is also a refugium in the main sump to feed the DT pods and grow Chaeto.. To harvest I use BioMedia in the mesh bags: http://www.amazon.com/PACK-MODULES-F...ter+aqua+clear

Can be done cheaper by using women's knee high stocking filled with rubble rock. Pull one out every three days and put in the DT. After three days put it back in the POD farm tank to repopulate. I use Tisbe Pods and feed them PhytoPure Greenwater. Capful every other day.

[/URL]

My mandarin is so fat he has a goiter. And the wrasse looks like a dolphin. Here is a pic of him today:

[/URL]

Palting · 04/15/2013, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saltwater2999

So your saying that even with having a skimmer attached to the sump and the return pump I shouldn't have any problems with them getting killed off before they arrive to the display

Either above or in the sump refugium should be fine. BUT, if you can do either, then the question is, which one is better for pod production and maintenance? IMO, it's the above tank refugium, hands down and no question. For an equal sized refugium with equal capacity to produce pods, there is no danger from either skimmer or return pump since the refugium drains by gravity. Whether the return pump actually kills pods or not is now immaterial. It doesn't matter, since in the above tank refugium there is NO return pump.

saltwater2999 · 04/15/2013, 08:07 PM

Well this was my two plans. Converting my 20 gallon sump into a fuge with no baffles( I like not having baffles in it and I want more room for cheato and all I would have to do is install small baffles around the return pump and the skimmer pump to keep the cheato out or I could build an above tank that would only be 10 gallon and somehow figure out how to get water from display tank to fuge with out taping into the return from the sump

Fitz19d · 04/15/2013, 08:12 PM

Dumb question, but little tiny copepods. (Aphipods I assumed were big enough) Melanarus wrasse will compete with a mandarin on copepods? Sad news for me if so. Was already debating if I could support the mandarin, got rid of my scooter to help that decision. But have a melanarus I am not super keen on ditching. : \

nynick · 04/15/2013, 08:55 PM

If the Melanarus is anything like the common yellow you can just forget it without a very large tank or a lot of pod farming. Wrasses seem to be able to consume meat like a cow does grass. My pair is amazing in the amounts and what they can manage to tear apart and eat. Any snail that falls on their back is just devoured and my tank is near pod free.

All of this is after having added an algae scrubber so I can overfeed enough, twice a day, for my Ebli Angel to totally lose interest in the clams. They are fast, smart and agile bottomless pits.

unitedbga · 05/31/2013, 01:47 AM

Above tank refugiums are the way to go. I have two 29 gallon refugiums over my 60 gallon display. My pods are doing great and I am also able to go skimmerless.

lokii_37 · 05/31/2013, 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saltwater2999

Well this was my two plans. Converting my 20 gallon sump into a fuge with no baffles( I like not having baffles in it and I want more room for cheato and all I would have to do is install small baffles around the return pump and the skimmer pump to keep the cheato out or I could build an above tank that would only be 10 gallon and somehow figure out how to get water from display tank to fuge with out taping into the return from the sump

Why would you not just run your return to the above DT pod farm? Them just have it drain into the DT which in turn would drain back to the sump

04/15/2013, 01:49 PM	#1
saltwater2999 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: illinios Posts: 170	Above display refugium or refugium in sump I have been doing so much research on adding a refugium to my 6 month old tank. I have two ideas so far on what I want to do. So far all I want the refugium for is to supply copepods to the tank to that I could have an endless supply. So I have picked from either an above display tank or convert my sump to have the capability to have a refugium. I would love to get people's opinions and suggestions about me doing this.

04/15/2013, 02:03 PM	#2
Cymonous My Clown Attacks Me Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Akron, OH Posts: 2,105	If your sump is big enough, I would just add in a refugium. __________________ 100 Gallon Long with 20L sump 10 Gallon Office Tank Current Tank Info: 2 False Percula Clowns, One Spot Foxface, Diamond Watchman Goby, Yellow Tail Damsel, Engineer Goby

04/15/2013, 02:30 PM	#4
Cymonous My Clown Attacks Me Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Akron, OH Posts: 2,105	not true. Copepods will survive the travel through the pump and plumbing. This is how everyone does this with a sump and fuge. __________________ 100 Gallon Long with 20L sump 10 Gallon Office Tank Current Tank Info: 2 False Percula Clowns, One Spot Foxface, Diamond Watchman Goby, Yellow Tail Damsel, Engineer Goby

04/15/2013, 02:46 PM	#7
Cymonous My Clown Attacks Me Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Akron, OH Posts: 2,105	Sump and skimmer should be fine. The pods are going to go everywhere in your tank. Through pumps, skimmers, filters, powerheads, etc. No matter where you put the fuge. If you put a fuge above the tank and gravity fed to the DT, how would you get the water to the fuge from the DT? __________________ 100 Gallon Long with 20L sump 10 Gallon Office Tank Current Tank Info: 2 False Percula Clowns, One Spot Foxface, Diamond Watchman Goby, Yellow Tail Damsel, Engineer Goby

04/15/2013, 02:15 PM	#3
saltwater2999 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: illinios Posts: 170	I have a 20 gallon sump for a 55 gallon display -the one thing I am worried about is how everyone says that the return pump is pretty much a blender for the copepods

04/15/2013, 02:34 PM	#5
saltwater2999 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: illinios Posts: 170	So your saying that even with having a skimmer attached to the sump and the return pump I shouldn't have any problems with them getting killed off before they arrive to the display

04/15/2013, 02:41 PM	#6
MrClam Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 557	From what I have heard most people think skimmers will kill microfauna. There is some debate about how much life makes it through a return pump unharmed. If it were me I would put a refuge above the tank if you can make it work and have it gravity feed into the DT, as this takes out any question of whether copepods will survive the trip to the DT.

04/15/2013, 02:54 PM	#8
cloak Moved On Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Stockton, CA Posts: 14,854	IMO, pods are way too small for the pumps to harm them. (copepods) They should pass through without any issues. Just as an experiment, grab the largest piece of flake food you can find and put it in a cup of water. Once it's saturated, pour this right by the intake of your return pump. When the flakes come out in the DT, you'll see just how fine the impeller is chopping things up.

04/15/2013, 03:40 PM	#9
nynick Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 1,029	Some will make it some will not. If you have a particular reason for a pod farm, ie Mandarin or something, a large hob fuge is very good. If not, clownfish don't care if the pod is dead or alive.

04/15/2013, 04:26 PM	#10
saltwater2999 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: illinios Posts: 170	Well the reason I want a pod farm because I want a mardarin and I would get the water from the dot to fuge by a power head hooked up to a hose that poors into the fuge.

04/15/2013, 05:00 PM	#11
nynick Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 1,029	A lot of coral rubble in your display tank is good too or anything big enough to allow pods in but not the mandarin. Depending on the size of your tank you may or may not even need a fuge...or you might need 2 and loads of rubble areas. If you plan on keeping a Mandarin don't do what I did and get a pair of Wrasse (or anything like them). They spend 100% of their time hunting pods and are incredibly good at it.

04/15/2013, 05:38 PM	#12
cap032 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Alabama Posts: 611	As mentioned, some pods will be chop suey and others will make it through. As far as your skimmer, place the refugium in a compatment after the skimmer. Either set up the sump Skimmer-Fuge-Return or Skimmer-Return-Fuge.

04/15/2013, 05:39 PM	#13
dastowers Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Youngstown, OH Posts: 74	My stand alone pod farm is on the right. There is also a refugium in the main sump to feed the DT pods and grow Chaeto.. To harvest I use BioMedia in the mesh bags: http://www.amazon.com/PACK-MODULES-F...ter+aqua+clear Can be done cheaper by using women's knee high stocking filled with rubble rock. Pull one out every three days and put in the DT. After three days put it back in the POD farm tank to repopulate. I use Tisbe Pods and feed them PhytoPure Greenwater. Capful every other day. [/URL] My mandarin is so fat he has a goiter. And the wrasse looks like a dolphin. Here is a pic of him today: [/URL]

04/15/2013, 08:07 PM	#15
saltwater2999 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: illinios Posts: 170	Well this was my two plans. Converting my 20 gallon sump into a fuge with no baffles( I like not having baffles in it and I want more room for cheato and all I would have to do is install small baffles around the return pump and the skimmer pump to keep the cheato out or I could build an above tank that would only be 10 gallon and somehow figure out how to get water from display tank to fuge with out taping into the return from the sump

04/15/2013, 08:12 PM	#16
Fitz19d Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Frederick Colorado Posts: 475	Dumb question, but little tiny copepods. (Aphipods I assumed were big enough) Melanarus wrasse will compete with a mandarin on copepods? Sad news for me if so. Was already debating if I could support the mandarin, got rid of my scooter to help that decision. But have a melanarus I am not super keen on ditching. : \

04/15/2013, 08:55 PM	#17
nynick Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 1,029	If the Melanarus is anything like the common yellow you can just forget it without a very large tank or a lot of pod farming. Wrasses seem to be able to consume meat like a cow does grass. My pair is amazing in the amounts and what they can manage to tear apart and eat. Any snail that falls on their back is just devoured and my tank is near pod free. All of this is after having added an algae scrubber so I can overfeed enough, twice a day, for my Ebli Angel to totally lose interest in the clams. They are fast, smart and agile bottomless pits.

05/31/2013, 01:47 AM	#18
unitedbga Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 160	Above tank refugiums are the way to go. I have two 29 gallon refugiums over my 60 gallon display. My pods are doing great and I am also able to go skimmerless.