Fish purchase recommendations

eacosta · 05/11/2013, 09:14 AM

Current tank:
29g, 30lbs LR, 2" sand bed, Reef octopus skimmer, no sump
Paired ocellaris clownfish (1 is about 2.75"and other 2"), CUC, 4 coral frags

I know my tank size limits my options, but I want just one more fish and looking for recommendations. I would like an active fish that won't get too spooked by my 2 clowns. The clowns are very active. The larger clown is a very aggressive eater. I have to hand feed the smaller clown to make sure he eats. I primarily feed pellet foods at the moment with frozen 1x per week. Thanks!

mikem101 · 05/11/2013, 10:20 AM

Active swimmer hmm maybe a fire fish? Maybe a dwarf wrasse? Not a huge amount of active guys cause there isn't much water to swim in if you decide to change that up you can go with clown gobies or a small gobie pistol shrimp pair!

John Helm · 05/11/2013, 11:14 AM

Pseudochromis fridmani shouldn't get spooked by the clowns. They're have stunning color and would be good for your tank size, but they have a tendency to hide.

Adamw327 · 05/11/2013, 01:09 PM

I have a pair and i am looking at the yellow headed jawfish as well as a firefish variation. Check them out. Without anything agressive in there the clowns should not spook either and they should all hang out together

nynick · 05/11/2013, 01:36 PM

Dwarf Angels are great too. It will have no problem keeping a bully at bay. A lot more personality (and I mean a LOT!!! Hams and primadonnas the whole bunch

) than the (imo) VERY boring Firefish.

Jawfish are also great...unless you plan on adding shrimps or some very small fish in the future. A tank without a cleaner shrimp is no tank for me so I don't keep them. They will eat anything small enough to fit in their mouth.

A few of the gutter common fish are so for a reason. Bicolor Blenny and Yellow Wrasse for example. Great fish and easy to care for. The Blenny is a clown personality and the Wrasse has the same pairing up as Clowns. Any 2 if bought small enough will change sex and form a pair.

mikem101 · 05/11/2013, 05:10 PM

I would have to disagree with nick, for one reason there isn't a angel fish that is small enough for a 25 gallon even a pygmy angel would require a 55 gallon so I would say those are out of the question.

nynick · 05/11/2013, 06:17 PM

Not sure where you got that number but many dwarf Angels grow to just about 2 or 3 inches (much smaller than a full grown Clown) so a 29g would be fine.

Many online sites gives the same volume requirements for all similar fishes which is why you can see 100g recomendations for a Kole Tang for example when they do very well in a smaller tank.

Adamw327 · 05/11/2013, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nynick

Not sure where you got that number but many dwarf Angels grow to just about 2 or 3 inches (much smaller than a full grown Clown) so a 29g would be fine.

Many online sites gives the same volume requirements for all similar fishes which is why you can see 100g recomendations for a Kole Tang for example when they do very well in a smaller tank.

Its not always a matter of size -> bioload. Its more geared towards their swimming space in the wild. Clowns for example dont really leave one spot on the reef, so its a small tank requirement. Angels like you said, move around a lot, and they would appreciate a bigger swimming area. Surviving and thriving are not the same thing!

nynick · 05/11/2013, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adamw327

Its not always a matter of size -> bioload. Its more geared towards their swimming space in the wild. Clowns for example dont really leave one spot on the reef, so its a small tank requirement. Angels like you said, move around a lot, and they would appreciate a bigger swimming area. Surviving and thriving are not the same thing!

They hover in and out of rocks while grazing and do not in any way require any more swimming space than most smallish fish. A small Dwarf Angel is an excellent fish for a smallish tank. They are also not very high bio-load, if that was what you meant.

For any smaller tank, most small fish with reasonable temperaments and diets whose life centers around the live rock if a good choice. Most free swimmers are not. I always cringe a little when I see Chromis in a tiny tank.

Also where did I say say they move around a lot? They are certainly active fish but Sohol Tangs they are not.

eacosta · 05/11/2013, 10:43 PM

Thanks for all your suggestions.

tatuaje08 · 05/12/2013, 12:58 AM

+1 dwarf angel. I love my reef-safe coral beauty.

Adamw327 · 05/12/2013, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nynick

They hover in and out of rocks while grazing and do not in any way require any more swimming space than most smallish fish. A small Dwarf Angel is an excellent fish for a smallish tank. They are also not very high bio-load, if that was what you meant.

For any smaller tank, most small fish with reasonable temperaments and diets whose life centers around the live rock if a good choice. Most free swimmers are not. I always cringe a little when I see Chromis in a tiny tank.

Also where did I say say they move around a lot? They are certainly active fish but Sohol Tangs they are not.

Well i do not have experience with coral beauty's but the flame angels i have seen are very active and i would feel bad putting one in a tank with a small swimming space, they also can have a bit of a temper, which i imagine could be worse in a smaller tank

eacosta · 05/12/2013, 09:10 AM

I am researching the suggested fish and there seems to be mixed reviews on the dwarf angels being reef safe. Seems like many nip at lps and other corals. Live aquaria states bigger tank requirements and that they nip at corals too.

Adamw327 · 05/12/2013, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eacosta

I am researching the suggested fish and there seems to be mixed reviews on the dwarf angels being reef safe. Seems like many nip at lps and other corals. Live aquaria states bigger tank requirements and that they nip at corals too.

Everyonce and a while someone gets one that just wont cut it out. But most of the time if they are well fed they will never bother anything. If you have a QT tank you can always take them out and give them a "time out" for a while and than re-introduce them and try again, i have heard this working also.

I also have heard the rare nightmare of one being good for years and than turning overnight and wreaking havok... I will be putting a flame in my 55g after i get the rest of my fish added, and i will be keeping zoas and a few lps

LH77 · 05/12/2013, 12:56 PM

Dwarf angles are hit or miss when it comes to corals. If you add one, just accept at some point the fish may develop a taste for some types of corals and be prepared to remove the coral of interest.

FWIW, your current tank is a 29 gal with a pair of clowns. At some point the clowns will stake out territory to defend and will likely lead to some aggression between the clowns and the angel.

nynick · 05/12/2013, 02:22 PM

I have a theory about Dwarf Angels and corals/clams. I have no proof for this other than 2 Angels that I have owned myself over the years. I believe corals and clams are not a preferred diet for many of them. Both the Angels I had were nipping at clams and both of them totally stopped this behavior after I increased feeding. This might be total rubbish but I would love to hear if anyone has a similar experience.

eacosta · 05/12/2013, 03:03 PM

Came across this angel post that has an excel spreadsheet of people's experiences. Doesn't consider feeding habits, but what type of corals were nipped at by different fish.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...adsheet&page=7

mandarin_goby · 05/12/2013, 03:32 PM

My one chromis, lawnmower blenny and Hector's goby are fearless. The clown I have leaves them alone, and they're always out and about.

LH77 · 05/12/2013, 11:23 PM

Currently have Coral Beauty with a pair of Ocellaris and Midas Blenny in a 60 cube. The angel and clowns generally ignore each other except when the angel is near the clown's host, then all three go into display/posturing mode. Usually the angel gets the hint and grazes elsewhere, occasionally the female clown applies a nip to speed the process along. FWIW, I’d expect less aggression between them in my tank, if the tank had more horizontal and less vertical space.

As for coral nipping, mines been good with LPS corals for a few years (Hammers, CandyCane, Duncans, Oxypora). However, it spends all day inspecting/picking at the rock work and back wall of the tank. My expectation is if or when it starts sampling corals, it will be the same sort of continuous picking behavior and my tank does not have enough restate to spread out the attention.

Good luck with what you decide.

gsiegel · 05/13/2013, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adamw327

its not always a matter of size -> bioload. Its more geared towards their swimming space in the wild. Clowns for example dont really leave one spot on the reef, so its a small tank requirement. Angels like you said, move around a lot, and they would appreciate a bigger swimming area. Surviving and thriving are not the same thing!

+1

chunk78 · 05/13/2013, 11:54 AM

+1 dwarf angel

chunk78 · 05/13/2013, 12:01 PM

one of the smaller wrasse's would be a good choice as well

dthorn · 05/13/2013, 04:13 PM

Fairy and flasher wrasses are awesome for tanks too small for tangs! Great color and personality!

eacosta · 05/15/2013, 06:14 PM

Thanks for all your suggestions. If I go with a dwarf angel (e.g. coral beauty) or wrasse, would I need to add some live rock to my QT? I currently have a 10g QT with a pvc elbow in there. Just finished cycling and ready for my fish. Do you think the 10g would be ok for the quarantine period? I haven't looked at fish yet, so I don't know the fish size yet. Curious what others have done.

nynick · 05/15/2013, 06:53 PM

They both need a hiding spot but not LR. Can be a plastic pipe or elbow. I would stick to materials you can clean properly and even though you can clean LR it just turns it into a "rock".

05/11/2013, 09:14 AM	#1
eacosta Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: MD Posts: 135	Fish purchase recommendations Current tank: 29g, 30lbs LR, 2" sand bed, Reef octopus skimmer, no sump Paired ocellaris clownfish (1 is about 2.75"and other 2"), CUC, 4 coral frags I know my tank size limits my options, but I want just one more fish and looking for recommendations. I would like an active fish that won't get too spooked by my 2 clowns. The clowns are very active. The larger clown is a very aggressive eater. I have to hand feed the smaller clown to make sure he eats. I primarily feed pellet foods at the moment with frozen 1x per week. Thanks!

05/12/2013, 03:32 PM	#18
mandarin_goby Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 844	My one chromis, lawnmower blenny and Hector's goby are fearless. The clown I have leaves them alone, and they're always out and about. __________________ 75 with Eshopps 100 sump, Reef Octopus 110 SSS skimmer, Sicce 3.0 pump, Maxspect Gyre 130, 2 x Kessil a360W, mangroves plus clip-on bulb in sump 75 FW planted with CO2, 12 gallon cherry shrimp tank

05/11/2013, 10:20 AM	#2
mikem101 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 819	Active swimmer hmm maybe a fire fish? Maybe a dwarf wrasse? Not a huge amount of active guys cause there isn't much water to swim in if you decide to change that up you can go with clown gobies or a small gobie pistol shrimp pair!

05/11/2013, 11:14 AM	#3
John Helm Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Central NJ Posts: 34	Pseudochromis fridmani shouldn't get spooked by the clowns. They're have stunning color and would be good for your tank size, but they have a tendency to hide.

05/11/2013, 01:09 PM	#4
Adamw327 Registered Member. Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Owego, New York Posts: 387	I have a pair and i am looking at the yellow headed jawfish as well as a firefish variation. Check them out. Without anything agressive in there the clowns should not spook either and they should all hang out together

05/11/2013, 01:36 PM	#5
nynick Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 1,029	Dwarf Angels are great too. It will have no problem keeping a bully at bay. A lot more personality (and I mean a LOT!!! Hams and primadonnas the whole bunch ) than the (imo) VERY boring Firefish. Jawfish are also great...unless you plan on adding shrimps or some very small fish in the future. A tank without a cleaner shrimp is no tank for me so I don't keep them. They will eat anything small enough to fit in their mouth. A few of the gutter common fish are so for a reason. Bicolor Blenny and Yellow Wrasse for example. Great fish and easy to care for. The Blenny is a clown personality and the Wrasse has the same pairing up as Clowns. Any 2 if bought small enough will change sex and form a pair.

05/11/2013, 05:10 PM	#6
mikem101 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 819	I would have to disagree with nick, for one reason there isn't a angel fish that is small enough for a 25 gallon even a pygmy angel would require a 55 gallon so I would say those are out of the question.

05/11/2013, 06:17 PM	#7
nynick Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 1,029	Not sure where you got that number but many dwarf Angels grow to just about 2 or 3 inches (much smaller than a full grown Clown) so a 29g would be fine. Many online sites gives the same volume requirements for all similar fishes which is why you can see 100g recomendations for a Kole Tang for example when they do very well in a smaller tank.

05/11/2013, 10:43 PM	#10
eacosta Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: MD Posts: 135	Thanks for all your suggestions.

05/12/2013, 12:58 AM	#11
tatuaje08 Registered Member. Join Date: May 2013 Location: tempe, az Posts: 867	+1 dwarf angel. I love my reef-safe coral beauty.

05/12/2013, 09:10 AM	#13
eacosta Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: MD Posts: 135	I am researching the suggested fish and there seems to be mixed reviews on the dwarf angels being reef safe. Seems like many nip at lps and other corals. Live aquaria states bigger tank requirements and that they nip at corals too.

05/12/2013, 12:56 PM	#15
LH77 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 14	Dwarf angles are hit or miss when it comes to corals. If you add one, just accept at some point the fish may develop a taste for some types of corals and be prepared to remove the coral of interest. FWIW, your current tank is a 29 gal with a pair of clowns. At some point the clowns will stake out territory to defend and will likely lead to some aggression between the clowns and the angel.

05/12/2013, 02:22 PM	#16
nynick Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 1,029	I have a theory about Dwarf Angels and corals/clams. I have no proof for this other than 2 Angels that I have owned myself over the years. I believe corals and clams are not a preferred diet for many of them. Both the Angels I had were nipping at clams and both of them totally stopped this behavior after I increased feeding. This might be total rubbish but I would love to hear if anyone has a similar experience.

05/12/2013, 03:03 PM	#17
eacosta Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: MD Posts: 135	Came across this angel post that has an excel spreadsheet of people's experiences. Doesn't consider feeding habits, but what type of corals were nipped at by different fish. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...adsheet&page=7

05/12/2013, 11:23 PM	#19
LH77 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 14	Currently have Coral Beauty with a pair of Ocellaris and Midas Blenny in a 60 cube. The angel and clowns generally ignore each other except when the angel is near the clown's host, then all three go into display/posturing mode. Usually the angel gets the hint and grazes elsewhere, occasionally the female clown applies a nip to speed the process along. FWIW, I’d expect less aggression between them in my tank, if the tank had more horizontal and less vertical space. As for coral nipping, mines been good with LPS corals for a few years (Hammers, CandyCane, Duncans, Oxypora). However, it spends all day inspecting/picking at the rock work and back wall of the tank. My expectation is if or when it starts sampling corals, it will be the same sort of continuous picking behavior and my tank does not have enough restate to spread out the attention. Good luck with what you decide.

05/13/2013, 11:54 AM	#21
chunk78 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 77	+1 dwarf angel

05/13/2013, 12:01 PM	#22
chunk78 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 77	one of the smaller wrasse's would be a good choice as well

05/13/2013, 04:13 PM	#23
dthorn Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: erie pa Posts: 280	Fairy and flasher wrasses are awesome for tanks too small for tangs! Great color and personality!

05/15/2013, 06:14 PM	#24
eacosta Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: MD Posts: 135	Thanks for all your suggestions. If I go with a dwarf angel (e.g. coral beauty) or wrasse, would I need to add some live rock to my QT? I currently have a 10g QT with a pvc elbow in there. Just finished cycling and ready for my fish. Do you think the 10g would be ok for the quarantine period? I haven't looked at fish yet, so I don't know the fish size yet. Curious what others have done.

05/15/2013, 06:53 PM	#25
nynick Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 1,029	They both need a hiding spot but not LR. Can be a plastic pipe or elbow. I would stick to materials you can clean properly and even though you can clean LR it just turns it into a "rock".