Questions about using pickling lime

AZBigJohn · 05/16/2013, 09:51 PM

I have read (and re-read, and re-read) several of the posts/threads about getting your calcium, magnesium and alkalinity levels to a correct balance, and then using a brand of pickling lime in your top off water to keep them "locked".

Currently, my water parameters are: Alk - 8.4 Ca - 440 Mg - 1320. Are these good numbers to start using this in my ATO water?

I use a five gallon bucket for my ATO water, and keep it covered with a lid at all times. Does it need to be kept in motion (with a small pump) with the lime in it, or is it okay to "sit" as is?

Once using the pickling line in the top-off, will I still need to supplement each additive (Alk, Ca, Mg)?

My tank currently has some zoas, a leather, a hammer and I added a frogspawn today. I have couple other frags as well. The tank is a 55 gallon tank with a 30 gallon sump.

Thanks for any help!

TimeConsumer · 05/16/2013, 11:04 PM

Your levels look great to me. And no, do not circulate the water, it will cause the undissolved kalk to become suspended in the water and end up in your tank.

But before you start using kalk in your ATO, I would determine what your consumption rate of calc and alk are. Test again in one week (without performing a water change) and see if it has decreased. You may be able to get by with just changing water considering how few stony corals you have.

dml931 · 05/16/2013, 11:12 PM

i use kalk water in my ato. i siphon the clear water out into my ato bucket and started this with numbers very similar to yours. only thing i saw change was the ALK rose to around 10 and stayed there. (9.6 - 10.4 using red sea's reef pro kit) i believe the pickling lime will act the same as clear kalk water as lime water is the end result in both cases.

RA · 05/17/2013, 05:21 AM

Just get Mrs. Wages pickling lime at Walmart or your local grocery store. It's the same as what your pet store will sell you for 8x the price. In most tanks it will keep up with the demand of your alk & cal, but if your tank has a high demand for those you might need to supplement. I've been using it in my tanks for years will good results.

downbeach · 05/17/2013, 05:34 AM

If you keep your SG around 1.026 and do regular WC's, you probably won't have to dose Mg, kalk is not a good supplement for Mg. Although, using Kalk is a good idea, but ultimately may not keep up with your demand, since it's limited to how much you can add to your RO/DI water(2 tsp./gal. of RO/DI water), and your evaporation rate. There are a few different delivery methods you can use, i.e. ATO, drip, dosing pumps, etc. I started to use kalk when just WC's were no longer sufficient to keep up with my system's demand, and still use it, although today, I also need to dose two part. It's a good balance of Ca and Alk, and will utilize CO2 in your system, which helps keep your pH up.
In summary, I would make sure your SG is right, since this is where you'll be adding much of your Ca, Mg and Alk, test for these elements between WC's to develop a base line of use. Using kalk won't go far in elevating your Ca and Alk, but will help to maintain it between WC's. Once you get to the point that using kalk and WC's no longer keep up with your demand, you'll have to consider some form of supplementation, i.e. 2 part dosing, Ca reactor, etc.

Palting · 05/17/2013, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimeConsumer

But before you start using kalk in your ATO, I would determine what your consumption rate of calc and alk are. Test again in one week (without performing a water change) and see if it has decreased. You may be able to get by with just changing water considering how few stony corals you have.

This. If I read your sig correctly, you are still slowly converting to a reef tank. You may not need to use kalk, yet. Using kalk does not "lock in" the correct nubers. Using kalk in your top off when kalk is not needed can result in alk and calcium numbers that are too high. I have a feeling that, given where you are at in your reef conversion, just a routine 10%-20% water change at a salinity of 1.026 will be enough to "lock in" your numbers for quite a while without need for kalk in the ATO

AZBigJohn · 05/17/2013, 08:42 AM

Okay, thanks everybody. I will keep watch on my calcium numbers. My SG stays right around 1.026 on my refractometer, and I do a 10-15%% water change every other week. I just recently added the hammer and frogspawn, so I was worried I might see dramatic increases in my CA and Mg depletion.

Although I am curious... what would happen if the Ca and Mg got too high? What numbers are "too high"?

Sk8r · 05/17/2013, 01:04 PM

Mg is the one thing that you have to provide, when you're on kalk. It depletes very, very slowly compared to the rate at which you use kalk, so one dose will often go a month or so. Test it weekly. When it slips down, put it up again, the same way when kalk powder runs low, put more in: precise measurement with kalk at full strength dosage is by no means necessary: water can ONLY dissolve the correct amount. The excess lies on the bottom of the reservoir until more fresh water dissolves it. I usually dump 2 pounds into my 32 gallon reservoir with no attention to measuring, and just let fresh water additions once a week dissolve enough...it'll never dissolve too much: the laws of the universe forbid it.

05/16/2013, 09:51 PM	#1
AZBigJohn Usually confused... Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 1,091	Questions about using pickling lime I have read (and re-read, and re-read) several of the posts/threads about getting your calcium, magnesium and alkalinity levels to a correct balance, and then using a brand of pickling lime in your top off water to keep them "locked". Currently, my water parameters are: Alk - 8.4 Ca - 440 Mg - 1320. Are these good numbers to start using this in my ATO water? I use a five gallon bucket for my ATO water, and keep it covered with a lid at all times. Does it need to be kept in motion (with a small pump) with the lime in it, or is it okay to "sit" as is? Once using the pickling line in the top-off, will I still need to supplement each additive (Alk, Ca, Mg)? My tank currently has some zoas, a leather, a hammer and I added a frogspawn today. I have couple other frags as well. The tank is a 55 gallon tank with a 30 gallon sump. Thanks for any help! __________________ John Current Tank Info: Currently a 29 gallon all-in-one frag tank and a 210 gallon tank slowly becoming my dream system!

05/16/2013, 11:04 PM	#2
TimeConsumer Registered Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: New Orleans, La Posts: 1,919	Your levels look great to me. And no, do not circulate the water, it will cause the undissolved kalk to become suspended in the water and end up in your tank. But before you start using kalk in your ATO, I would determine what your consumption rate of calc and alk are. Test again in one week (without performing a water change) and see if it has decreased. You may be able to get by with just changing water considering how few stony corals you have. __________________ Steve - Retired from reefing, for now.

05/17/2013, 08:42 AM	#7
AZBigJohn Usually confused... Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 1,091	Okay, thanks everybody. I will keep watch on my calcium numbers. My SG stays right around 1.026 on my refractometer, and I do a 10-15%% water change every other week. I just recently added the hammer and frogspawn, so I was worried I might see dramatic increases in my CA and Mg depletion. Although I am curious... what would happen if the Ca and Mg got too high? What numbers are "too high"? __________________ John Current Tank Info: Currently a 29 gallon all-in-one frag tank and a 210 gallon tank slowly becoming my dream system! Last edited by AZBigJohn; 05/17/2013 at 08:45 AM. Reason: added last question

05/17/2013, 01:04 PM	#8
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	Mg is the one thing that you have to provide, when you're on kalk. It depletes very, very slowly compared to the rate at which you use kalk, so one dose will often go a month or so. Test it weekly. When it slips down, put it up again, the same way when kalk powder runs low, put more in: precise measurement with kalk at full strength dosage is by no means necessary: water can ONLY dissolve the correct amount. The excess lies on the bottom of the reservoir until more fresh water dissolves it. I usually dump 2 pounds into my 32 gallon reservoir with no attention to measuring, and just let fresh water additions once a week dissolve enough...it'll never dissolve too much: the laws of the universe forbid it. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

05/16/2013, 11:12 PM	#3
dml931 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: ohio Posts: 100	i use kalk water in my ato. i siphon the clear water out into my ato bucket and started this with numbers very similar to yours. only thing i saw change was the ALK rose to around 10 and stayed there. (9.6 - 10.4 using red sea's reef pro kit) i believe the pickling lime will act the same as clear kalk water as lime water is the end result in both cases.

05/17/2013, 05:21 AM	#4
RA Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: S. Jersey Posts: 976	Just get Mrs. Wages pickling lime at Walmart or your local grocery store. It's the same as what your pet store will sell you for 8x the price. In most tanks it will keep up with the demand of your alk & cal, but if your tank has a high demand for those you might need to supplement. I've been using it in my tanks for years will good results.

05/17/2013, 05:34 AM	#5
downbeach Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Smyrna, Delaware Posts: 3,767	If you keep your SG around 1.026 and do regular WC's, you probably won't have to dose Mg, kalk is not a good supplement for Mg. Although, using Kalk is a good idea, but ultimately may not keep up with your demand, since it's limited to how much you can add to your RO/DI water(2 tsp./gal. of RO/DI water), and your evaporation rate. There are a few different delivery methods you can use, i.e. ATO, drip, dosing pumps, etc. I started to use kalk when just WC's were no longer sufficient to keep up with my system's demand, and still use it, although today, I also need to dose two part. It's a good balance of Ca and Alk, and will utilize CO2 in your system, which helps keep your pH up. In summary, I would make sure your SG is right, since this is where you'll be adding much of your Ca, Mg and Alk, test for these elements between WC's to develop a base line of use. Using kalk won't go far in elevating your Ca and Alk, but will help to maintain it between WC's. Once you get to the point that using kalk and WC's no longer keep up with your demand, you'll have to consider some form of supplementation, i.e. 2 part dosing, Ca reactor, etc.