SAD- NO Chiller-Fish and corals all DIED :-(

[aquaskilz]

I have a 45 Gal High tank with an LED Lighting system. Long story short all my corals, ornamental shrimp and coral beauty died. I am sooo upset.
The temp in my tank went to 90 degrees because my house temp went up.
I need advice on a a affordable quality chiller and water pump to go with it. Can you please help??

[humaguy]

keep one or two 2 gallon plastic soda bottles filled with water in the freezer...great way to keep things cool...when things get hot put it in your sump...
for such a small tank I can't recommend a proper chiller but somebody can...
Very sorry for your loss...

[wonderz]

You can try mount a couple of fans near your tank to blow at the surface. It will help keep water cool and speed up the evaporation. Then you can top off the chilled RODI water like humaguy suggested.

[Laborator]

A 1/10 or 1/4 HP chiller will work and if you have a controller then get a clip on fan and set it at the temp that you would like it to turn on.

Also does your stand have any vents?

[kclewis]

Or just not keep a tank. If you don't have AC this will always be a problem and one you should have prepared for before you even set up a tank. It's sad to read these stories when this is a very basic idea that needs attention from the planning stages. Instead of buying livestock you should have bought the equipment so you could even keep livestock.

[aquaskilz]

Thank u all for ur responses I love all u guys!! The temp went up in my house. We had a minor heat wave in NYC last week (above 90 degrees). I use a Mag 5 water pump in my 15 gal sump. I do have an A/C but i cant run it all day electric is high in NYC ( like everything else). My LED's do not generate much heat (and they are elevated 6" above my tank) and if I put fans i would have to make it an open system which will cause high evap. I think a chiller may be my only option. wada ya think? @ KClewis- you give horrible advice even the highest of experts in this field experience some sort of lost. Stick to farming

[aquaskilz]

Thank u humma guy for ur tip...I will try for now....

[humaguy]

Originally Posted by aquaskilz

Thank u humma guy for ur tip...I will try for now....

yeah man, when I lived in nyc for 20 years I always kept 6 of those frozen bottles I mentioned...in real real emergencies I would add whole bags of ice to the sump...
Have you considered buying a very small portable ac unit and during heat waves pointing it at the tank and running it?
I know how expensive nyc is but just a thought...

[kclewis]

Ha! Farming good one. I never knew the horrible advice of considering temp in the planning stages was bad. What do you think will happen in August? You only get one small heat wave a year in NYC? Why don't you go back to mugging people? That's what everyone does in the big city according to us hicks in Indy right?

All of your problems could have been avoided with simple research. Even the experts lose stuff is a true statement. But typically not due to lack of planning. You asked for help and I gave you a honest answer. Frozen bottles and cold RO/DI are quick fixes and not permanent solutions. They actually can be more detrimental due to rapid temperature changes. Why didn't you throw out a stereotype to that guy/gal?

Chillers are not affordable. If you think running AC is expensive run a chiller.

[Kyle918]

Originally Posted by aquaskilz

Thank u all for ur responses I love all u guys!! The temp went up in my house. We had a minor heat wave in NYC last week (above 90 degrees). I use a Mag 5 water pump in my 15 gal sump. I do have an A/C but i cant run it all day electric is high in NYC ( like everything else). My LED's do not generate much heat (and they are elevated 6" above my tank) and if I put fans i would have to make it an open system which will cause high evap. I think a chiller may be my only option. wada ya think? @ KClewis- you give horrible advice even the highest of experts in this field experience some sort of lost. Stick to farming

While all that is upsetting to hear, I do see KClewis point...you do live there and you do know you have heat waves this time of year...and you do know that your tank going above 79 degress will likely cause an issue so why you would knowingly leave your AC off during a heat wave (and 90 is nothing...) is beyond me... It was 84 at 7:45am here in Tampa this morning...so image how the rest of the day goes...I leave my AC set to 79 while I am away or I would be in the same boat as you daily...

If you are home and this is an isolated, one time occurance, then I would agree with the bottle water method as it is a temporary fix and can be down quickly if you are home. If not, or this is going to be a problem for a few weeks or longer, then I would suggest a chiller to help with stabalizing your temps as you don't want a huge fluctuation each day which looks like that will be the result if you are using cold water jugs.

Fans do help but you are concerned about evaporation. I'm not sure if you have low PH either but opening the top can relieve heat and help with your low PH if you are experiencing that as well...just a suggestion. Opening the top and running a fan or two across the top may may be enough to keep your tank cool and if it is enough, then that is much cheaper than buying and running a chiller. I can't see you evaporting more than a half gallon a day if that taking the top off which if it is like FL, cost around 3 cents a gallon.

If anything, that is a cheap solution A and if that fails, put your top back on and buy a chiller and you're only out the cost of a fan or two...

[d2mini]

Originally Posted by kclewis

All of your problems could have been avoided with simple research.

While true, you're original comment wasn't all that helpful.
At least the OP is on here admitting his mistake and looking for a solution. Give him a break. Live and learn.

[Kyle918]

Originally Posted by kclewis

Ha! Farming good one. I never knew the horrible advice of considering temp in the planning stages was bad. What do you think will happen in August? You only get one small heat wave a year in NYC? Why don't you go back to mugging people? That's what everyone does in the big city according to us hicks in Indy right?

All of your problems could have been avoided with simple research. Even the experts lose stuff is a true statement. But typically not due to lack of planning. You asked for help and I gave you a honest answer. Frozen bottles and cold RO/DI are quick fixes and not permanent solutions. They actually can be more detrimental due to rapid temperature changes. Why didn't you throw out a stereotype to that guy/gal?

Chillers are not affordable. If you think running AC is expensive run a chiller.

I agree that some planning was not done...I myself have thought about power outages, my AC unit breaking in the summer or heat breaking in the winter...all of that I've thought of and have some sort of plan in place for...

Anyway, he asked for help and he has already lost this battle so no need to make it harder by killing the already dead "you should have planned ahead" horse.

But as KClewis said, the cold water bottles can cause more harm, IE too rapid a temperature change which is why I suggested a chiller to help stablize this if they will be a probably for a while. But I do agree with KClewis again when he says chillers are not cheap...I don't see you saving much money using a chiller than using your AC. You may be able to save more money running your AC at 85 during the day and like suggested, running a fan or two over the top of your tank. Those two solustions together may be enough to keep your tank under 81-82 during the day.

[jscarlata]

chill out guys...literally...
aquaskilz - kclewis is right, tank temps in the hottest of months should have been considered when planning your tank, not after its setup; he did give you sound advice, it may not be what you wanted to hear, but it was true nonetheless.
kclewis - your advice is correct, but dude, his tank is already setup, telling someone they shouldnt have a tank after they already hacve one isnt going to be well received by anyone, NY'er or not...maybe just change your delivery a bit.

aqua - you mentoned something in passing about not keeping an open system...most of our reef tanks are open, ie, no glass on the top. this is for a bunch of reasons, one of them being temp control...by having an open top, heat is allowed to escape your tank via evaporation...if you keep it closed, not only are you keeoping th heat in, but you are slowing down gas excvahnges...
if you have (had) jumpers, use the brs 1/4" mesh and window screen frames to make a top...
you dont have to run a chiller, but you will need to do a few things to keep temps under 90.
1 - keep windows open, move air with fans in the apartment
2 - open the tank up, and put fans across the top
3 - put fans across the sump surface
4 - keep those btotles of frozen RO handy

FWIW, during the summer my tank runs a little above 80 on the hottest days, and everything is fine, no issues. i put a fan across the sump and that kept temps under control. i just switched to LEDs so im hoping its better this year...

[MrClam]

Nothing better than some good old regional conflict.

[humaguy]

Originally Posted by kclewis

Ha! Farming good one. I never knew the horrible advice of considering temp in the planning stages was bad. What do you think will happen in August? You only get one small heat wave a year in NYC? Why don't you go back to mugging people? That's what everyone does in the big city according to us hicks in Indy right?

All of your problems could have been avoided with simple research. Even the experts lose stuff is a true statement. But typically not due to lack of planning. You asked for help and I gave you a honest answer. Frozen bottles and cold RO/DI are quick fixes and not permanent solutions. They actually can be more detrimental due to rapid temperature changes. Why didn't you throw out a stereotype to that guy/gal?

Chillers are not affordable. If you think running AC is expensive run a chiller.

Even with proper planning and the best intentions, bad things can, do, and probably will happen...
In the 20 years I lived in nyc by utilizing the frozen bottle method, which plenty of us do, I never had a single problem or lost a fish and during that period had a pinktail and blueface live for close to 15 years...
what is your advice when there is a citywide power outage esp during the summer months?? my fish survived the nyc one on 2004 thanks to my solution...
they have also survived some nasty hurricanes...I did get a genny just before Sandy hit...but sometimes you have to make it up as you go along...

[kmellon]

wow, that was helpful.

Originally Posted by kclewis

Or just not keep a tank. If you don't have AC this will always be a problem and one you should have prepared for before you even set up a tank. It's sad to read these stories when this is a very basic idea that needs attention from the planning stages. Instead of buying livestock you should have bought the equipment so you could even keep livestock.

Anyway, yes, chillers aren't cheap, but cheaper than trying to keep the entire room cool while you are away. Add one along with the frozen water bottles and it shouldn't be too hateful on the electric bill.
Best of luck.

[kclewis]

If this was a dog and he said I left it in the car with the windows rolled up and it died, we would be calling the police for animal cruelty.

Sorry if I take this to be the same situation. And I am sorry to the OP for my statements.

Humaguy we in indy experience the similar situations like power outages. I have a small generator and several battery operated air pumps for these situations. I understand you have to adapt to mother nature. You have to admit with being a member since 06 that reading these stories are troubling.

[slipknottin]

So leaving AC on = too expensive

But buying and running a chiller isn't?

I must be bad at math

[Breadman03]

Originally Posted by slipknottin

So leaving AC on = too expensive

But buying and running a chiller isn't?

I must be bad at math

http://www.marinedepot.com/Coralife_...INQCBC-vi.html

I don't know how Coralife stacks up against the competition, but they are a name brand and should give a reasonable idea of cost-$600-$1,000. Add in the electric to run one, etc.

Keeping the room A/C on and running a fan over the surface of your water is a pretty solid option unless your tank itself produces tons of heat such as using big, inefficient pumps and metal halide lighting.

I have a 75 with a sump. I've been keeping my canopy open and have a box fan running over my sump. I'm using just over a gallon of water per day.

[power boat jim]

Leaving a chiller on in the same room as the tank is counter productive. The heat removed by the chiller goes directly into the room causing the chiller to work harder. This ultimatly raises the room temp as well as the tanks. You need an AC unit to cool the room and fans over the tank. Plenty of window units have set temps on them now so they dont run constantly.

[dkeller_nc]

Originally Posted by power boat jim

Leaving a chiller on in the same room as the tank is counter productive. The heat removed by the chiller goes ditectly into the room causing the chiller to work harder. This ultimatly raises the room temp as well as the tanks. You need an AC unit to cool the room and fans over the tank. Plenty of window units have set temps on them now so they dont run constantly.

Exactly. There is a flaw in logic being discussed on this thread that relates to thermodynamics. Specifically, while a chiller can be used to move heat from the tank to the air in the room, this same heat must then be removed by the house AC to the outdoors.

It's true that if the house is extremely poorly insulated, is very large, or has air leaks to the outside (e.g., a window is open), then the overall heat gain by sources other than the tank will mean that the house AC has to remove considerably more than a chiller would use to keep the tank temperature below 82 deg F or so.

However, even window unit ACs are quite a bit more efficient than a tank chiller, and if one is running a tank chiller in addition to wanting to be reasonably comfortable when one gets home from work, then the heat put out by the tank equipment has to be moved twice - transferred once from the tank water to the room, and then again from the room air to the outdoors. Since no refrigeration unit is ever more than perhaps 50% efficient, the costs are going to go up very quickly.

Keep in mind that while ice can be used to keep a tank cool in an emergency, it takes a lot of ice and the tank temp has to be monitored constantly so that the ice can be inserted/removed as needed to prevent the tank from going well below the lower temp tolerance of the animals.

Roughly speaking, one gallon of ice that melts in 8 hours is the equivalent of 44 watts of power. So it would take quite a bit of ice to effectively remove the heat typically generated by even a small reef tank.

In contrast, one gallon of water evaporated from the tank in 8 hours is the equivalent of 297 watts.

So you can see why most of us choose to maximize evaporation during the summer months.

[aquaskilz]

Thanks again guys for ur Dialogue. KC I accept ur apology and I do too apologize. But u need to read jscarlata comment. Im a 45 year old grown man ok. Dont scold me. Of course I should have planned better thats obvious but if you're perfect congratulations. As far my dog she is fine (just to let u know I do have a German Shepard) my Tank is in part of my house that just got extremely warm and I just didnt see it coming. A valuable mistake that I MUST PAY FOR-NO ONE ELSE! I will take ALL Your advice into consideration. I really do appreciate your feedback and I thank you again. Thanks for understanding jscarlata and humaguy.

[aquaskilz]

Kyle_ GREAT ADVICE TOO ...THANKS! P.BOAT JIM...looking into getting an A/C for that room THANKS!!

[kclewis]

I never said I was perfect and a 45 year old man should know better than to make a comment like stick to farming or if you're perfect congratulations. My advice may be the best you have received. If you cannot provide a suitable habitat for a reef tank you will find yourself asking the what's wrong I killed all my livestock again question. I never meant to scold anyone. I was just providing a simple, logical answer to a question presented before the group as a whole. I'm happy you have a Shepard. They are good dogs I have two of them but it was an analogy.

[SweesFeesh]

Here in arizona it gets to 120. I just leave off the lid and have an industrial fan blowing on the tank. My tank stays about 80.