dangers to seahorse

triggerfish55 · 07/17/2013, 12:08 PM

i have a kuda seahorse i my reef tank, He is about 3" long. it is a mixed reef tank with sps, lps and softies but there are no fish in the tank other then the seahorse and a fire shrimp.

In one of the dimly lit corners of the tank i have noticed some pseudocorynactis (ball anemone) i heard that they can sting and catch small fish, are they a danger to the seahorse/ has anyone has any experience with these animals in their seahorse tanks?

I also have some mini brittle star fish, since they are opportunistic eaters i am also concerned about them being with the seahorse.

Is the seahorse safe in this tank?, any input or past experiences would be helpful

rayjay · 07/17/2013, 06:24 PM

There can be not coral or anemone that can sting the seahorses as sooner or later they are liable to be stung and lead to bacterial infection which in turn may lead to the loss of the seahorse.
While occasionally a reef tank can work out for a seahorse, usually it would be one that has been set up specifically for seahorses in mind, not adding a seahorse to an existing reef tank.
I can't say specifically for the ball (strawberry) anemone but I wouldn't take a change.
However, you still would be best to set up a species only tank for the seahorse, and get a mate from the same breeding source as the one you already have.
You can keep a pair of kuda in a 29g tank, with 15g extra for each additional pair of seahorses.
If you check out the links at the BOTTOM of my page on "My Thoughts on Seahorse Keeping" you will find links that can give you the basics for the best chances of success for seahorse keeping, including a page for tank mates, as well as a couple of pages touching on the reason for keeping the seahorse tanks in the 68° to 74°F range.

tjdouglas · 07/18/2013, 01:53 AM

Hi Triggerfish, you might want to get rid of the pseudocorynactis even if you do move your seahorse to another tank because pseudocorynactis can sting many types of small fish. I think you could eliminate it the same way that you eliminate aiptasia anemones. I just mix about 1/2 teaspoon of kalkwasser powder with about 1/2 teaspoon of water. Briefly mix this into a nice slurry, then turn off your pumps/powerheads and use a pipette or similar instrument to squirt the mixture on the offending polyp(s). Usually one treatment is all it takes to completely melt them.
Off course, if you have the rare orange $100 pseudocorynactis then you probably do not want to do this!

Best wishes to you!

Don Quixote · 07/18/2013, 03:36 PM

Any coral or invertebrate with stingers is incompatible with seahorses. Acropora can be sensitive to the prehensile latching of seahorses.

Regards,
The Don

nanafish · 07/18/2013, 05:15 PM

Always, Always do your homework before getting any species that you are not familiar with. Do not rely on the LFS person scooping fish out of the tank for you. They maybe clueless. Please forgive me- Shame on you for making a hasty purchase! But at least you are seeking information about your situation. Check out www.fusedjaw.com for other seahorse info.

triggerfish55 · 07/19/2013, 11:56 AM

thank you for the info, the seahorse was moved into his own tank, its a live rock and macro algae tank. my only concern is that there are some mini brittle starts in that tank also, are they a threat to the seahorse?

also how fast do kuda seahorses grow? my guy is about 3" and i feed him at least 5 times a day

rayjay · 07/20/2013, 06:25 AM

Mini stars won't be a threat to standard seahorses.
Hopefully each of the five feedings will be very light feedings, as seahorses create very "dirty" water, even though it may look great and test great.
Any uneaten food, unless removed totally from the system, becomes food and habitat for nasty bacteria like vibriosis species and others.
As for how fast kuda will grow, that varies first of all with each individual seahorse, as I see when I have a batch of fry that have extreme differences in growth rates just to get to the fourth month.
Variation within species is one thing, but when you are talking kuda, they actually can be any number of seahorses because shippers often lump other species in a shipment and label them as kuda.
I believe also the kuda designation incorporates a couple of variants with at least one that gets larger than the others and growth a bit faster.
Generally speaking I think most of my species though, attain near maximum or will be at maximum length within a year.
I find my erectus continue growing and developing a deep, or fuller bodied chest even after attaining their full length. I don't know if it's just me and my imagination or if it is actually happening.

triggerfish55 · 07/20/2013, 08:37 PM

thanks for the info, im not too worried about the feeding because its an established tank with a protein skimmer that is rated for a 3 times bigger tank, and there is a lot of live rock and macro algae

rayjay · 07/21/2013, 07:57 AM

This is exactly the conditions that lead to seahorse deaths sooo many times.
People assume their system will handle the seahorses, not really knowing just how dirty seahorse tank water gets.
First, the tank maturity is going to be obviously fairly sure of not having ammonia in it, but it is still possible because the system is used to processing a certain level of biological activity that may be less than what is now needed by the feeding of the seahorse. It may take some time to get the tank capable of handling the new bioload it has.
As for the protein skimmer, it is an excellent addition to any seahorse tank, however, it is designed to take out dissolved organic material, not the solids that are often a problem in a seahorse tank. After the food has been broken down by other organisms and producing this organic waste, the protein skimmer then does it's job.
It is great to have a skimmer 3X its rating because of this dirty water producing more dissolved organics than a reef tank does.
When seahorses snick up their food, they masticate it and pass particulate matter through the gills into the water column. You can sometimes see this as it brieflly resembles a cloud when expelled.
With the live rock and macro algae, those items, along with any hitches or decor of any kind, trap the detritus/food particles in unseen places, and as they decay, they are providing a bedding AND food for nasty bacteria like the vibriosis species that are always present, but can get out of hand with this heavier loading in the tank. Temperatures above 74° will exacerbate this problem, especially the higher you go above 74°.
Seahorses have a sensitivity to nasty bacteria unlike any reef fish I've ever encountered in my 20 years of reefing. It is probably the number one cause of seahorse deaths now.
You didn't say what size tank the seahorse is in now, but if it is a very large tank then at least that makes the system more forgiving for inherent problems.

triggerfish55 · 07/21/2013, 02:36 PM

the tank is hooked up in parallel to a large reef, which has a lot of sensitive and delicate corals so my water is always very very clean, ive successfully kept large alligator pipe fish and box fish in that tank before (not together) and they are very messy fish especially the box fish, dont worry i keep my parameters in check.

07/17/2013, 12:08 PM	#1
triggerfish55 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: usa Posts: 82	dangers to seahorse i have a kuda seahorse i my reef tank, He is about 3" long. it is a mixed reef tank with sps, lps and softies but there are no fish in the tank other then the seahorse and a fire shrimp. In one of the dimly lit corners of the tank i have noticed some pseudocorynactis (ball anemone) i heard that they can sting and catch small fish, are they a danger to the seahorse/ has anyone has any experience with these animals in their seahorse tanks? I also have some mini brittle star fish, since they are opportunistic eaters i am also concerned about them being with the seahorse. Is the seahorse safe in this tank?, any input or past experiences would be helpful

07/17/2013, 06:24 PM	#2
rayjay Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: London, Ontario, Canada Posts: 3,969	There can be not coral or anemone that can sting the seahorses as sooner or later they are liable to be stung and lead to bacterial infection which in turn may lead to the loss of the seahorse. While occasionally a reef tank can work out for a seahorse, usually it would be one that has been set up specifically for seahorses in mind, not adding a seahorse to an existing reef tank. I can't say specifically for the ball (strawberry) anemone but I wouldn't take a change. However, you still would be best to set up a species only tank for the seahorse, and get a mate from the same breeding source as the one you already have. You can keep a pair of kuda in a 29g tank, with 15g extra for each additional pair of seahorses. If you check out the links at the BOTTOM of my page on "My Thoughts on Seahorse Keeping" you will find links that can give you the basics for the best chances of success for seahorse keeping, including a page for tank mates, as well as a couple of pages touching on the reason for keeping the seahorse tanks in the 68° to 74°F range. __________________ Seahorses. Culture nanno, rotifers and brine shrimp. Current Tank Info: Seahorses

07/18/2013, 05:15 PM	#5
nanafish Premium Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: ohio/Col. Station 44028 Posts: 629	Always, Always do your homework before getting any species that you are not familiar with. Do not rely on the LFS person scooping fish out of the tank for you. They maybe clueless. Please forgive me- Shame on you for making a hasty purchase! But at least you are seeking information about your situation. Check out www.fusedjaw.com for other seahorse info. __________________ Just think how much deeper the ocean would be if sponges didn't live there! Current Tank Info: 60g Reef Snowflake Clowns, Gobies etc.

07/20/2013, 06:25 AM	#7
rayjay Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: London, Ontario, Canada Posts: 3,969	Mini stars won't be a threat to standard seahorses. Hopefully each of the five feedings will be very light feedings, as seahorses create very "dirty" water, even though it may look great and test great. Any uneaten food, unless removed totally from the system, becomes food and habitat for nasty bacteria like vibriosis species and others. As for how fast kuda will grow, that varies first of all with each individual seahorse, as I see when I have a batch of fry that have extreme differences in growth rates just to get to the fourth month. Variation within species is one thing, but when you are talking kuda, they actually can be any number of seahorses because shippers often lump other species in a shipment and label them as kuda. I believe also the kuda designation incorporates a couple of variants with at least one that gets larger than the others and growth a bit faster. Generally speaking I think most of my species though, attain near maximum or will be at maximum length within a year. I find my erectus continue growing and developing a deep, or fuller bodied chest even after attaining their full length. I don't know if it's just me and my imagination or if it is actually happening. __________________ Seahorses. Culture nanno, rotifers and brine shrimp. Current Tank Info: Seahorses

07/21/2013, 07:57 AM	#9
rayjay Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: London, Ontario, Canada Posts: 3,969	This is exactly the conditions that lead to seahorse deaths sooo many times. People assume their system will handle the seahorses, not really knowing just how dirty seahorse tank water gets. First, the tank maturity is going to be obviously fairly sure of not having ammonia in it, but it is still possible because the system is used to processing a certain level of biological activity that may be less than what is now needed by the feeding of the seahorse. It may take some time to get the tank capable of handling the new bioload it has. As for the protein skimmer, it is an excellent addition to any seahorse tank, however, it is designed to take out dissolved organic material, not the solids that are often a problem in a seahorse tank. After the food has been broken down by other organisms and producing this organic waste, the protein skimmer then does it's job. It is great to have a skimmer 3X its rating because of this dirty water producing more dissolved organics than a reef tank does. When seahorses snick up their food, they masticate it and pass particulate matter through the gills into the water column. You can sometimes see this as it brieflly resembles a cloud when expelled. With the live rock and macro algae, those items, along with any hitches or decor of any kind, trap the detritus/food particles in unseen places, and as they decay, they are providing a bedding AND food for nasty bacteria like the vibriosis species that are always present, but can get out of hand with this heavier loading in the tank. Temperatures above 74° will exacerbate this problem, especially the higher you go above 74°. Seahorses have a sensitivity to nasty bacteria unlike any reef fish I've ever encountered in my 20 years of reefing. It is probably the number one cause of seahorse deaths now. You didn't say what size tank the seahorse is in now, but if it is a very large tank then at least that makes the system more forgiving for inherent problems. __________________ Seahorses. Culture nanno, rotifers and brine shrimp. Current Tank Info: Seahorses

07/18/2013, 01:53 AM	#3
tjdouglas Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Long Beach, California Posts: 218	Hi Triggerfish, you might want to get rid of the pseudocorynactis even if you do move your seahorse to another tank because pseudocorynactis can sting many types of small fish. I think you could eliminate it the same way that you eliminate aiptasia anemones. I just mix about 1/2 teaspoon of kalkwasser powder with about 1/2 teaspoon of water. Briefly mix this into a nice slurry, then turn off your pumps/powerheads and use a pipette or similar instrument to squirt the mixture on the offending polyp(s). Usually one treatment is all it takes to completely melt them. Off course, if you have the rare orange $100 pseudocorynactis then you probably do not want to do this! Best wishes to you!

07/18/2013, 03:36 PM	#4
Don Quixote Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 59	Any coral or invertebrate with stingers is incompatible with seahorses. Acropora can be sensitive to the prehensile latching of seahorses. Regards, The Don

07/19/2013, 11:56 AM	#6
triggerfish55 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: usa Posts: 82	thank you for the info, the seahorse was moved into his own tank, its a live rock and macro algae tank. my only concern is that there are some mini brittle starts in that tank also, are they a threat to the seahorse? also how fast do kuda seahorses grow? my guy is about 3" and i feed him at least 5 times a day

07/20/2013, 08:37 PM	#8
triggerfish55 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: usa Posts: 82	thanks for the info, im not too worried about the feeding because its an established tank with a protein skimmer that is rated for a 3 times bigger tank, and there is a lot of live rock and macro algae

07/21/2013, 02:36 PM	#10
triggerfish55 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: usa Posts: 82	the tank is hooked up in parallel to a large reef, which has a lot of sensitive and delicate corals so my water is always very very clean, ive successfully kept large alligator pipe fish and box fish in that tank before (not together) and they are very messy fish especially the box fish, dont worry i keep my parameters in check.