A newb question, can't find answers anywhere

[thatreefguy22]

Okay, here's a newbie question..
And I don't know if I'm not catching it else where, but that why I joined. so I could get some good help!!

My 20 gallon long has been up, I got my overflow on it, going down to my proflex model 1 sump.
the problem is, I have hardly any water in the sump tank itself, my display is up to the black rim of the tank, and where I have my overflow box leveled.

I want to be able to have the first baffle wall all the way up, and have the second chamber full of water (for my future refugium.) and have it running over the bubble trap baffle, that leads to the return/skimmer section.
but I can't let the second chamber fill without the third emptying and pump sucking in air.. :/

My plumbing is...
1" drain
1/2" with increase to 3/4" with ball valve to adjust flow back up to the tank (that may change, as I might add a "T" connector, and putting the ball valve on that end and letting some water flow back into the sump tank.) that way I'm not tiring my pump out. If that makes sense at all.

I'm coming to think that, all I need to do it..add more mixed water to the sump and then adjust some more. and maybe a small hole in the return jet so I don't worry about a back siphon if something were to fail while I'm not here.
That way I have more sump room to add water. But will have to turn that around and I wouldn't want too much into my tank.

So highlighted question...is, how can I add more water volume to my sump without my DT going over board???

Here is some picture for you guys. I marked a red line where the water level is in the photo. hoping to make it easy for anyone who wants to help.
and a big thank you, in advance!!!

[thatreefguy22]

sorry that you can't read the word in photo #4 ...but the lines show it all. and my post says it all. Thank you again guys!!

[Mark9]

Add more water

[shifty51008]

from the pictures I have seen on this sump there are slots on the bottom of the last baffle with the blue foam separating the middle compartment and the return section correct?

if you want the water to fill up the 2nd compartment and overflow the last baffle you need to cover up the bottom slits with either a small piece of glass or acrylic and silicone.

[downbeach]

Isn't these supposed to be a water retaining wall on the inside of the bulkhead holding the blue sump block?

http://www.aqueonproducts.com/assets/014/26606.pdf

[thatreefguy22]

Originally Posted by shifty51008

from the pictures I have seen on this sump there are slots on the bottom of the last baffle with the blue foam separating the middle compartment and the return section correct?

if you want the water to fill up the 2nd compartment and overflow the last baffle you need to cover up the bottom slits with either a small piece of glass or acrylic and silicone.

Hello again! I do have that piece. But like I said, the 3rd chamber will empty with that covered, and pump air into my tank. But I could cover that, and add more water like the plan I started to narrow down to.

So, should block those slots, and then add more water so my return pump chamber doesn't begin sucking air due to the amount of time it takes for chamber 2 to fill up to reach over the baffle going to the return chamber?

[Stopsignhank]

Sorry if I get this wrong, but you are asking how to put more water in your sump and keep the same level in your DT? In reality your pump and your return plumbing are what determine the water level in your DT. You can add more water to the sump and all will be good. You WILL NEED a hole drilled in your return line so that when the power goes out you do not overflow your sump. Some may say a check valve will work but I personally don't believe in them for this application.

[downbeach]

What are you using for a return pump?

[thatreefguy22]

Originally Posted by downbeach

Isn't these supposed to be a water retaining wall on the inside of the bulkhead holding the blue sump block?

http://www.aqueonproducts.com/assets/014/26606.pdf

I have that wall, sitting in a bucket full of stuff, haha. But I mention to shifty51008 that, when I put that on, It takes some time to reach back to the 3rd chamber where my return sits, the idea is to have 2nd chamber full, then filling over to the return chamber, allowing enough water so it doesn't pump air.

So maybe, like I have been thinking after I posted this, add more water, and put a hole on the return jet so I get no back siphon.

I'm scared of my DT and/or sump overflowing on to my floor.

[thatreefguy22]

Originally Posted by Stopsignhank

Sorry if I get this wrong, but you are asking how to put more water in your sump and keep the same level in your DT? In reality your pump and your return plumbing are what determine the water level in your DT. You can add more water to the sump and all will be good. You WILL NEED a hole drilled in your return line so that when the power goes out you do not overflow your sump. Some may say a check valve will work but I personally don't believe in them for this application.

I will agree 110% with you on check valves. Your logic is on point, sir!!

[thatreefguy22]

Originally Posted by downbeach

What are you using for a return pump?

I'm using the 1200 maxi jet from marineland.
and I have an external OF, with 1" drain. inside the black box I decided to use a maxi jet 400 pump to keep a constant drain going...beats using a U-tube ...darn thing kept getting air bubbles which WILL lead to a siphon break. My logic on this was that...2 pumps..power fail...they both go. water stops. But there are down falls still.

[downbeach]

You will have to use the siphon tube, and a larger pump. Your overflow box is rated for X(?) GPH, so allowing for head loss, you need to determine what pump will best suit your needs, and remain below the rated volume of the overflow box. Here is a calculator from the home page:

http://reefcentral.com/index.php/head-loss-calculator

[thatreefguy22]

Originally Posted by downbeach

You will have to use the siphon tube, and a larger pump. Your overflow box is rated for X(?) GPH, so allowing for head loss, you need to determine what pump will best suit your needs, and remain below the rated volume of the overflow box. Here is a calculator from the home page:

http://reefcentral.com/index.php/head-loss-calculator

I've tried using that, My height for return pump, to top of the tank is 3ft 3/8"
with 1 ball valve. and the 400 maxi jet is equivalent to the U-tube...the U-tube is rated 300gph, the maxi jet 400 is at 3ft head loss. I fills my overflow box just fine, and drains just fine. just had to know how I could get more water in my sump. and I was unsure if I added more water to my sump, it would go right into my DT. lol

[shifty51008]

yes just add more water to the sump then after you have the return pump and drain working properly.

[Merman1983]

It should work perfectly with a little more water added anywhere. That usually balances everything out. You can add it to the tank or sump and gravity will take care of the rest. If it keeps pumping out of the sump too fast, you might have to switch back to a gravity siphon instead of a pump inside the overflow basket.

[shifty51008]

oh wait I just noticed you have a pump pushing water from the overflow to the sump, this is a big no no. you will never get 2 pumps to match GPH. you will deff want to switch to a gravity fed drain.

[thatreefguy22]

Originally Posted by shifty51008

yes just add more water to the sump then after you have the return pump and drain working properly.

Okay, I brought the U-tube back out...gave more tries at it...and it seems to be working, with very few, tiny/small bubbles occasionally pass through it. but, like 3 small sized bubbles sitting close to the exit siphon...just sitting there. My eyes are on those. haha.

[thatreefguy22]

Originally Posted by shifty51008

oh wait I just noticed you have a pump pushing water from the overflow to the sump, this is a big no no. you will never get 2 pumps to match GPH. you will deff want to switch to a gravity fed drain.

I just did, man. It's working better. hopefully, no big air bubble forms inside of my overflow U-tube.

[shifty51008]

if your getting air bubbles in the U tube then it means you don't have enough flow going through it and will need a bigger pump.

[thatreefguy22]

Originally Posted by shifty51008

if your getting air bubbles in the U tube then it means you don't have enough flow going through it and will need a bigger pump.

My return line, ball valve is almost all the way on...and the 3rd chamber of the sump is almost empty. But it's staying there..I'm gonna mix up some saltwater (2 gallons) and fill it up and then see if I can add that retaining wall to block those holes in the sump.

[thatreefguy22]

It's 11:30a...and the sump/fuge is flowing the way I wanted it to!!
But, I'll do other things around the apartment, nap, and then check how the overflow siphon is going.
but if it broke, I have just about the right amount in the return chamber to spare the rest of my tank, just right where it probably will not overflow my DT..I'm on the edge, actually. sweet.

[Merman1983]

Did you turn your return pump valve to all the way on? That should balance everything out.

[Merman1983]

The rise in water to your tank will just fill the overflow faster and get all the air bubbles out, creating a faster drain.

[thatreefguy22]

Originally Posted by Merman1983

Did you turn your return pump valve to all the way on? That should balance everything out.

I can try...I mean, It's just about all the way on. I guess it can't hurt to try that, and get the rest of those small bubble out, like you said.

[Merman1983]

Yessir