Is there something wrong with LED lights?

dinger28 · 01/09/2014, 07:17 PM

Hey all. Been reading a lot of forums lately about how they want to switch their lights from LED's, or wish they never bought LED's. I'm new to LED's, but so far I absolutely love them. I went from a 150w metal halide to a Evergrow LED fixture over my 29g Biocube. I think my corals look amazing, even running at 40 percent blue and 15 percent white. So are LED's just not what everyone thinks anymore? Let me know because I want to hear what y'all think!

klwheat · 01/09/2014, 07:46 PM

Well, just my opinion here, but I love my leds. I think many people having problems fall into a couple of categories. 1) not aclimating properly and frying their corals, or 2) inadequate leds that are cheaply made and not good spectrum and good output.

Ron99 · 01/09/2014, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by klwheat

Well, just my opinion here, but I love my leds. I think many people having problems fall into a couple of categories. 1) not aclimating properly and frying their corals, or 2) inadequate leds that are cheaply made and not good spectrum and good output.

I'll second that!

unitedbga · 01/09/2014, 09:38 PM

I have had LED's for a year. In fact they are Evergrow. They grow some coral great but I had my acans die off which were doing great before with T5's

Here is a video by Mike Paletta and Sanjay. They noticed had similar thoughts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4yIEIM1R48

Guygettnby · 01/10/2014, 07:22 AM

IMHO, LED's are still very new too the hobby. MH,T5,VHO and PC's have all been around for a long time and are proven to work. they are about as good as they are going to get.

LED's on the other hand, being so new to the hobby are always changing. companies are always upgrading the lights as the technology gets better. Then you have a few issues that make things even worse.

1: LED's are not cheap when wanting a good name brand fixture. so most reefers who are on a budget, who want to try LED's go on ebay and find the cheapest thing they can. Well, that doesnt always work. most of the time they get junk and because they buy it from ebay, they have no help when something goes wrong. There are cheaper LED lights out there that do work well and have good customer support. But again there are people out there selling Knock offs of knock offs... well some where down the line things get super cheap and not what it really says the light is. So if you go the cheaper route, go with a company that you know has a good rep and will be there if you have any issues. In my experience thru the years, i try to talk to the company as much as i can. question the products they sell and make sure i know everything i can about what i am going to buy, before i buy it.

2: Some dont acclimate there tank to the light. This could happen from many different things. Some get the light and just try to judge how the new LED light looks compared to there old light and think thats what it should be. That would be a very bad way to do it. there is really no way your eyes can compare the intensity of LED light to MH, T5, VHO or PC. Others ramp up the light way too fast and fry their corals. Keep this in mind, nothing in this hobby happens over night. take the time to acclimate correctly, adjust the intensity slowley, raise the fixture up or down if needed and borrow a PAR meter if needed.

3: Peoples corals do not have good coloration. this can be caused by many things and it is not always the light. could be bad water conditions, flow, lights and others. Some companies use cheap LED's that put out poor light and arent even the right spectrum of light. also could again be caused by having too much light or not enough, acclimation is key.

4: From what i have heard and read, some corals just dont do good under LED's. i cant personally say i know anything about this subject besides what i have heard from people i talk to or read some place.

So from what i am reading you already have an evergrow fixture and i have heard a lot of good things about them. I hope this has helped you in any way. some times i ramble on in the mornings when i am still half asleep

dinger28 · 01/10/2014, 08:41 AM

Thanks so much guygettnby for your response. I currently have my fixture around 12 inches above the water line on my biocube and have the whites, reds, and greens running at 20 percent power, with the blues at 35 percent. Will keep it this way for a while to let the corals adjust to the new light, before I start cranking up the blues little by little. Thanks for the input! Anyone else out there please give me yours as well.

blasterman789 · 01/10/2014, 01:03 PM

One of the biggest myths in this industry is claiming that T5's and halides are 'tried and true' technology while LED's are 'newfangled' and not proven yet.

(1) Been reefing since the 80's, and metal halide bulb changes over reef tanks have resulted in more SPS bleach-outs and sleep-less nights than LEDs. Lets stop trying to revise history.

(2) Good luck getting two metal halide bulbs with the same spectra. Because of the laws of mass production reef oriented MH suffer inevitable deviations, even with bulbs made with the same run. This is why commercial caliber halide bulbs are so expensive and have such large lot runs. Fluorescent tubes are much easier to control via their phosphor coatings.

(3) For every argument against LEDS on reef tanks the lighting industry in general will make a million for them. The same physics apply to lighting a shopping center and a reef tank, and I don't know of anybody in the general lighting industry arguing the superiority of halides unless it's lighting baseball stadiums.

(4) LED's initially had coloration issues on reef tanks because of the lack of red extension in high PAR / high lumen cool white LEDs. That issue has been corrected in most new fixtures.

The remaining arguments are otherwise pretty specific. T5's distribute their illumination over a very large area which produces even growth in SPS if not a lack of 'specular impact'. Halides function more like LEDs.

The biggest negative issue specific with LED's is optics. Being able to bend emitted light into a 60degree or tighter cone presents an adaptation problem for coral that's unique to LED's. This is the biggest reason for excessive bleach-outs with LEDs - not the spectrum. Put a large Fresnel lens over a halide bulbs and you'd be facing the same issue. Again, the reef lighting industry has solved a lot of this with wider angle lights, or those lacking optics.

jda · 01/10/2014, 02:35 PM

This all depends on expectations. Like any kind of light, they won't be for everybody. There are plenty of reasons to both use, and not use, LED. I think that the experienced hobbyist with a wide breath and depth of experience gets this - the arguments mostly happen when a fanboy/fangal of one or the other, without good experience with other types, logs in.

There are plenty of people who have issues with LED as general lighting. There are studies and articles all over the web. The light sometimes is not warm and can cause people to not feel comfortable and leave earlier than they might have otherwise - this can be both good and bad... LED are not all the way done evolving for general purposes either. LED can still be a harsh light in some situations.

01/09/2014, 07:17 PM	#1
dinger28 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Indian Land, SC Posts: 385	Is there something wrong with LED lights? Hey all. Been reading a lot of forums lately about how they want to switch their lights from LED's, or wish they never bought LED's. I'm new to LED's, but so far I absolutely love them. I went from a 150w metal halide to a Evergrow LED fixture over my 29g Biocube. I think my corals look amazing, even running at 40 percent blue and 15 percent white. So are LED's just not what everyone thinks anymore? Let me know because I want to hear what y'all think!

01/09/2014, 07:46 PM	#2
klwheat Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 676	Well, just my opinion here, but I love my leds. I think many people having problems fall into a couple of categories. 1) not aclimating properly and frying their corals, or 2) inadequate leds that are cheaply made and not good spectrum and good output. __________________ 180 Gallon Mixed reef President/Co-founder Running4Trisomy A Butterfly's Touch

01/09/2014, 09:38 PM	#4
unitedbga Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 160	I have had LED's for a year. In fact they are Evergrow. They grow some coral great but I had my acans die off which were doing great before with T5's Here is a video by Mike Paletta and Sanjay. They noticed had similar thoughts. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4yIEIM1R48

01/10/2014, 07:22 AM	#5
Guygettnby Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: FL Posts: 3,050	IMHO, LED's are still very new too the hobby. MH,T5,VHO and PC's have all been around for a long time and are proven to work. they are about as good as they are going to get. LED's on the other hand, being so new to the hobby are always changing. companies are always upgrading the lights as the technology gets better. Then you have a few issues that make things even worse. 1: LED's are not cheap when wanting a good name brand fixture. so most reefers who are on a budget, who want to try LED's go on ebay and find the cheapest thing they can. Well, that doesnt always work. most of the time they get junk and because they buy it from ebay, they have no help when something goes wrong. There are cheaper LED lights out there that do work well and have good customer support. But again there are people out there selling Knock offs of knock offs... well some where down the line things get super cheap and not what it really says the light is. So if you go the cheaper route, go with a company that you know has a good rep and will be there if you have any issues. In my experience thru the years, i try to talk to the company as much as i can. question the products they sell and make sure i know everything i can about what i am going to buy, before i buy it. 2: Some dont acclimate there tank to the light. This could happen from many different things. Some get the light and just try to judge how the new LED light looks compared to there old light and think thats what it should be. That would be a very bad way to do it. there is really no way your eyes can compare the intensity of LED light to MH, T5, VHO or PC. Others ramp up the light way too fast and fry their corals. Keep this in mind, nothing in this hobby happens over night. take the time to acclimate correctly, adjust the intensity slowley, raise the fixture up or down if needed and borrow a PAR meter if needed. 3: Peoples corals do not have good coloration. this can be caused by many things and it is not always the light. could be bad water conditions, flow, lights and others. Some companies use cheap LED's that put out poor light and arent even the right spectrum of light. also could again be caused by having too much light or not enough, acclimation is key. 4: From what i have heard and read, some corals just dont do good under LED's. i cant personally say i know anything about this subject besides what i have heard from people i talk to or read some place. So from what i am reading you already have an evergrow fixture and i have heard a lot of good things about them. I hope this has helped you in any way. some times i ramble on in the mornings when i am still half asleep

01/10/2014, 08:41 AM	#6
dinger28 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Indian Land, SC Posts: 385	Thanks so much guygettnby for your response. I currently have my fixture around 12 inches above the water line on my biocube and have the whites, reds, and greens running at 20 percent power, with the blues at 35 percent. Will keep it this way for a while to let the corals adjust to the new light, before I start cranking up the blues little by little. Thanks for the input! Anyone else out there please give me yours as well.

01/10/2014, 01:03 PM	#7
blasterman789 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 365	One of the biggest myths in this industry is claiming that T5's and halides are 'tried and true' technology while LED's are 'newfangled' and not proven yet. (1) Been reefing since the 80's, and metal halide bulb changes over reef tanks have resulted in more SPS bleach-outs and sleep-less nights than LEDs. Lets stop trying to revise history. (2) Good luck getting two metal halide bulbs with the same spectra. Because of the laws of mass production reef oriented MH suffer inevitable deviations, even with bulbs made with the same run. This is why commercial caliber halide bulbs are so expensive and have such large lot runs. Fluorescent tubes are much easier to control via their phosphor coatings. (3) For every argument against LEDS on reef tanks the lighting industry in general will make a million for them. The same physics apply to lighting a shopping center and a reef tank, and I don't know of anybody in the general lighting industry arguing the superiority of halides unless it's lighting baseball stadiums. (4) LED's initially had coloration issues on reef tanks because of the lack of red extension in high PAR / high lumen cool white LEDs. That issue has been corrected in most new fixtures. The remaining arguments are otherwise pretty specific. T5's distribute their illumination over a very large area which produces even growth in SPS if not a lack of 'specular impact'. Halides function more like LEDs. The biggest negative issue specific with LED's is optics. Being able to bend emitted light into a 60degree or tighter cone presents an adaptation problem for coral that's unique to LED's. This is the biggest reason for excessive bleach-outs with LEDs - not the spectrum. Put a large Fresnel lens over a halide bulbs and you'd be facing the same issue. Again, the reef lighting industry has solved a lot of this with wider angle lights, or those lacking optics.

01/10/2014, 02:35 PM	#8
jda Dogmatic Dinosaur Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 6,256	This all depends on expectations. Like any kind of light, they won't be for everybody. There are plenty of reasons to both use, and not use, LED. I think that the experienced hobbyist with a wide breath and depth of experience gets this - the arguments mostly happen when a fanboy/fangal of one or the other, without good experience with other types, logs in. There are plenty of people who have issues with LED as general lighting. There are studies and articles all over the web. The light sometimes is not warm and can cause people to not feel comfortable and leave earlier than they might have otherwise - this can be both good and bad... LED are not all the way done evolving for general purposes either. LED can still be a harsh light in some situations.