Any issues for a heater in the main tank?

[Gunsnroses]

Other than looks?
I just received my two Eheim 300 watt heaters and I never bothered to check the length on these things before I ordered them. They are 20 inches long.
I had planned to put them in my sump. But I cant because my sump is only 17 inches wide.
So I have two options. Either return the heaters and trade down to a pair of 200 watt heaters that are only 16 inches long or put the 300 watt heaters in the main tank.
The main tank is 180 gallons, sump is 75 gallons and the fish room is not heated. Hence the two 300 watt heaters.

What would you do?

[odst223]

I hide all mine in my DT just try and keep them in high flow. This usually doesn't matter as long as you have powerheads.

[FuGu2]

The one thing that I would warn against having heaters in your DT is the possibility that something (fish, coral, snails, etc) will get burnt. I had this happen with my yellow tang. For a few months, I notice that the tang would occasionally get pinkish marks on its skin. I thought it was a skin parasite or something, but finally figured out that he liked to hide close to the heater and when it cut on, it would burn him. I movved the heater to the sump and no more pink marks on the tangs skin....

[Whisperer]

DO you have an overflow?

[rfgonzo]

If your heaters is 20 inches long and you're sump is 17 inches wide, just put it on an angle in the sump. It will all still be underwater.

[bromdad]

You definitely need two 300 watt heaters in that tank. Put them in the overflows. Best to use a controller because sooner or later one will fail in the on position and overheat your tank. With a controller, you can set them for a degree higher that your cut off temp.

[Gunsnroses]

I do have overflows. One on each side of the tank.
My only issue with putting them in the overflows is the fact that I am running a dual Herbie drain. And, if for some reason, the water level drops to the top of the open drain, the heater will be 6 inches below the minimum water lever for the heater. Never ran a Herbie before, so I dont know how often that could happen.

I have ordered a Ranco 111000 temp controller for the heaters. It will be here Monday.

As for laying them sideways in the sump....I could only do that in my skimmer compartment. Even with them sideways, the top of the heater is just below the waterline of my 12" baffles. And since the return section fluctuates in water level, the heater would be below the min. water level sometime during the day.
The skimmer section already has the Reef Octopus DCS200 skimmer in it as well as the filter sock and 4 drains. I could fit one heater in there, but not both.
Not sure I would want to put the heaters in my refugium or not??????

Burning livestock as well as scraping encrusted organisms off every so often was my main concerns of having them in the tank.

Will the heaters be just as effective in the overflows as they would out in the main tank? Cause I have plenty of room in the overflows. I have a GlassCages tank and the overflows are huge.

[julie180]

If you can get one in the sump, I would put one there and the other in the DT. If your pump should go out for any reason, you would have a little protection.

Putting the heater in the overflow is fine unless your pump fails.

[Gunsnroses]

Not sure what to do.
Every option has a draw back.

[dkeller_nc]

Never put a heater in an overflow, and if you have a separate heater and controller, it's essential that you place both the temperature sensor and the heater in the same compartment of a sump, or in the display tank.

The reason is the consequences of a return pump failure. If that happens, and the heater(s) are in a separate compartment from the temp probe (or even worse, the temp probe is in the main tank and the heaters are in the sump), then the controller will keep the heaters on 100% of the time.

That will likely lead to extreme evaporation from the compartment that contains the heater(s), and possibly even boiling the water if one is using the kind of heater that doesn't have an internal thermostat. The very hot water can crack a glass sump, or melt an acrylic one. And once the water is gone, the heaters have a high probability of catching fire.

So not only might you lose everything in the tank, you also might start a house fire.

[dkeller_nc]

By the way - if this is a new tank you're setting up and your fish room isn't heated, consider the idea of insulating the bottom, back and two sides of your tank. The rigid 1/2" foam board with an aluminum skin that's sold at home improvement stores works well for this purpose.

Not only will it cut way down on the amount of power and $$$ required to heat the tank, it also provides a little bit of extra insurance in case the power goes off and your tank has no heat.

[downbeach]

I had a similar problem with the length of the Jager heaters, so I went with the Hydor THEO's that are 15.5" long. See if you can exchange them, or maybe sell them locally.

[McGarnicle]

On my old tank I had the heater in the overflow and never had any issues

[Whisperer]

Originally Posted by dkeller_nc

Never put a heater in an overflow, and if you have a separate heater and controller, it's essential that you place both the temperature sensor and the heater in the same compartment of a sump, or in the display tank.

The reason is the consequences of a return pump failure. If that happens, and the heater(s) are in a separate compartment from the temp probe (or even worse, the temp probe is in the main tank and the heaters are in the sump), then the controller will keep the heaters on 100% of the time.

That will likely lead to extreme evaporation from the compartment that contains the heater(s), and possibly even boiling the water if one is using the kind of heater that doesn't have an internal thermostat. The very hot water can crack a glass sump, or melt an acrylic one. And once the water is gone, the heaters have a high probability of catching fire.

So not only might you lose everything in the tank, you also might start a house fire.

Very rich imagination only Stephen King can concoct. The overflow does not completely drain in an event of extended power outage. Heaters usually have maximum attainable temp and will not explode unless drop in cold water while at its maximum temperature.

[dkeller_nc]

Originally Posted by Whisperer

Very rich imagination only Stephen King can concoct. The overflow does not completely drain in an event of extended power outage. Heaters usually have maximum attainable temp and will not explode unless drop in cold water while at its maximum temperature.

No imagination required - there was a gentleman that posted exactly this incident about a month ago on R.C. The over-temp melted the durso in his overflow, which allowed the water to drain out. The heater then caught fire and cracked his tank. Fortunately for him, he managed to catch the issue in time to prevent a house fire.

And it is incorrect to make a blanket statement that a heater has a maximum attainable temperature. A properly functioning all-in-one heater does indeed have a thermostat that will turn the heater off, though it will get far hotter if it's out of the water than it will if it's totally immersed. But titanium heaters and malfunctioning all-in-ones will most certainly get hot enough to melt the internals and potentially cause a fire if a significant fraction of their surface area is exposed to air and they are continuously energized.

Bottom line - don't put heaters in overflows, period.

[Whisperer]

That's is why there is a dial at the top of most heaters, so they shut off when it achieves the desired temp. Get a good heater and you will be fine.( Can't help but think of Carrie setting the ballroom on fire...)

[dkeller_nc]

Correct. A properly functioning all-in-one will indeed shut off. But almost all heater designs except for Cobalt's accu-therm and neo-therms use a set of metal contacts within the heater to switch the current flow on and off. They often weld together, and fail in the "on" position, leading to an over-temp condition. And titanium heaters intended for use with a temperature controller don't have a thermostatic shut-off.

Both types will get hot enough to burn the interior thermoplastic components and electrical cord if they aren't completely immersed. This is not a rare failure mode. It's a little like driving a car without a seatbelt. So long as there are no collisions, the seatbelt is unnecessary.

[Gunsnroses]

O.k. What about this....
The fuge I built in my sump is deep and long enough to house the two heaters.
So I could put the two heaters in there with some rock rubble to fully utilize the
space. Then I could buy a seperate 40 gallon tank to use as a remote fuge and have
it drilled for a gravity drain back into the main sump.
Viable solution???

[slowjazz]

Originally Posted by Gunsnroses

I do have overflows. One on each side of the tank.
My only issue with putting them in the overflows is the fact that I am running a dual Herbie drain. And, if for some reason, the water level drops to the top of the open drain, the heater will be 6 inches below the minimum water lever for the heater. Never ran a Herbie before, so I dont know how often that could happen.

I have ordered a Ranco 111000 temp controller for the heaters. It will be here Monday.

As for laying them sideways in the sump....I could only do that in my skimmer compartment. Even with them sideways, the top of the heater is just below the waterline of my 12" baffles. And since the return section fluctuates in water level, the heater would be below the min. water level sometime during the day.
The skimmer section already has the Reef Octopus DCS200 skimmer in it as well as the filter sock and 4 drains. I could fit one heater in there, but not both.
Not sure I would want to put the heaters in my refugium or not??????

Burning livestock as well as scraping encrusted organisms off every so often was my main concerns of having them in the tank.

Will the heaters be just as effective in the overflows as they would out in the main tank? Cause I have plenty of room in the overflows. I have a GlassCages tank and the overflows are huge.

You could put it there, but not sure if I would work correctly. The amount of water is less then the sump or DT. I would think that either that water would heat up faster and cause the heater to turn off too soon or by the time that water made it through the sump it would be cooler then you wanted it.

[dkeller_nc]

Originally Posted by Gunsnroses

O.k. What about this....
The fuge I built in my sump is deep and long enough to house the two heaters.
So I could put the two heaters in there with some rock rubble to fully utilize the
space. Then I could buy a seperate 40 gallon tank to use as a remote fuge and have
it drilled for a gravity drain back into the main sump.
Viable solution???

Well sure, as long as there's a fair bit of flow through the fuge, but that sounds like an awful lot of "fix" instead of just buying another couple of heaters that will fit your existing space. Why not just replace the eheims with Cobalt Accu-Therms? The 300W model is 14-1/2" long, so it should fit, and are about $34 each.

I mostly have eheim-jagers, but did buy a 200W accu-therm based on the inner circuitry design. Because these heaters use a mosfet relay to turn the current on/off to the heating element, they're much more likely to fail in the "off" position rather than the "on" condition that's common with the conventional design with mechanical contacts.

[Gunsnroses]

The only issue I have with switching to the Cobalt is the fact that their 300 watt
Is only rated for a 80 gallon tank.
So two is only good for 160 gallon which will be underated for the display tank and the sump.
One of my Eheim Jager's is rated at 150-250 gallon.

[Khemul]

Don't worry about what the manufacturer rates them at. That's a marketing tool, since it depends on the specific environment the tank is in.

[Moorepower]

I have 2 300 watt heaters in my main tank ( got very cold outside and they are near a window dropped to 64 in my tank but nothing died). My puffer see my avatar will now sleep on my heater at night time lol. I have a 75 gallon tank 15 gallon sump but the sump.

And he sleeps on it when it's on lol. Never got burnt been doing this for over a week

[Gunsnroses]

Khemul, my tank is in a worse case scenario environment.
The room my tank is in usually does not get but about 20 degrees above
the outside air temp. Like right now, it is 28 degrees outside.
The tank room is at 54 degrees.
So I need all the heat I can get. So the more powerful the heater, the better.

I will be adding a wall mounted heat/air unit to the room next year.
But I have to make due until then.

[shifty51008]

a 300 watt heater no matter what brand will still put out 300 watts toward the heat. so just because colbalt says it's only rated at 80 gal. what makes you think the other brand heaters just didn't over rate theirs?