Can you get by without a controller? Yes.

Sk8r · 02/15/2014, 05:00 PM

A really nice controller can set you back 700 dollars. Most of us haven't got that hanging about as discretionary spending.

They are really nice if you can afford a good one.

Granted you can't---there are several measures you can take that substitute for having one. Back in the Jurassic we didn't have them, as a rule---and I still don't.

1. buy a top end heater: the Jager is good. We just had a lengthy discussion on how to set them, and the answer is, don't touch the red ring! That's the calibration. Move the blue ring. It's not the most user-friendly heater out there, but it's high quality and safer than some...

2. have two thermometers, one in your sump and one in your display, and check both if you note anything 'wrong' or just because its time. Develop the habit of laying your hand on your tank as you pass, and learn what 'right' feels like.

3. have a log book. This is a small cheap notebook in which you faithfully record the date and the following with blanks filled: Date/temperature/alkalinity/salinity. [Fish-onlies and softie reefs can stop here. Stony reefs continue:] Calcium/Magnesium. Plus add things like [added clownfish to tank] or [added buffer] or [new bulbs.] You should have tests and supplements for all these parameters, and stony reefs should consider kalk or two part. I'd add, if you're a fish-only, add the tests for nitrate and ammonia to your list. Reefs don't have to worry about that so much if the corals are spread out and happy. If corals tuck up, you betcha! run those two tests and run alkalinity, asap. And write down the result of the test and write down what you did about it. [One day you'll read the early part of your logbook and say, oh, dear...me...I remember. It is a great teaching tool, that book.]

and (4) have an ATO (autotopoff) and a schedule for dealing with it. Usually you want a reservoir that will go at least a week. Mine will go a month.

With those few things, you know what your temperature is and you're tracking some things that, if good, will mean good water and a happy tank...and you have the TREND of what's going on. Stuff runs out. Alkalinity starts to drop. You don't LET it get to a bad zone before you correct it by adding more buffer. That's what I mean when I say "dose INTO a trend, don't chase one!" Always correct a 'bad' trend before it gets to 'bad water.'

Controllers automate this sort of thing. They're wonderful. BUT---you can do it yourself. And you can set things up so even your Aunt Tisiphone can handle it.

GT350pwns · 02/15/2014, 05:41 PM

Thanks for this! great info!

flamron · 02/15/2014, 05:56 PM

A heater controller is a minimum IMO. That's the reason to have any controller for me. Even if it's a Ranco.

But if you're going to do an ATO with float switches, and then a Ranco for heater failure protection, you can get a low end controller for a few more bucks and ditch the timers for your lights as well.

It is a convenience thing to an extent, but the safety they provide is a necessity due to cheap heaters.

Sk8r · 02/15/2014, 06:08 PM

Heaters are indeed a caution: if you handle them carefully and are the ONLY person who handles them (brother Fred neglects to tell you he picked it up and let it swing against the wall, whack!) you are much safer. I don't jnow how to warn you except---spend the wad on a heater. The best. I've been at this a long, long time, and I've had heaters go out, but I've never had a specimen loss due to the problem.

Absolutely they are one of THE most dangerous pieces of equipment going: they can catch fire and burn your house down, overheat your tank, underheat your tank, and generally have to be protected from water even if they assure you their tops are safe and sealed, and otherwise --- don't believe what they say until you see it confirmed by two thermometers saying the same thing. I have never had ANY heater that told me the truth except the Jager, and I don't trust it. It could lie next week. Paranoid? Yes. Never trust the printed numbers and never set a heater and leave it without multiple checks on what it's doing.

Also note that your ambient temperature matters! Minute you hit a warm spell, check your tank temperature; the night it dips below freezing, check your tank. It's not hard. I have a digital thermometer on the tank and another one, and when they agree and the tank feels right to the touch, ok.

maddmaxx · 02/15/2014, 06:16 PM

very good call on touching the tank to feel the semi temp. i do this daily, and thought it was just me lol...

flamron · 02/15/2014, 06:17 PM

My controller tells me if the temp falls out of a range of 76-82.

Johnnycat · 02/15/2014, 07:04 PM

Thanks for posting this. I'm on the fence about a controller, but I have a separate ATO that I trust and a separate dosing pump already. My lights don't do fancy sunrise and sunset and I have to manually stop my pumps and power heads for feeding, but I think I can manage for a little while.

It would be really nice to have that controller and I'm sure I will some day. Right now I don't don't have the cash after buying all the other equipment.

Terefel · 02/16/2014, 10:35 AM

With respect to the log book, the spreadsheet available through this forum is super cool. It guides you through each of the items sk8r referenced above.

snorvich · 02/16/2014, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flamron

A heater controller is a minimum IMO. That's the reason to have any controller for me. Even if it's a Ranco.

But if you're going to do an ATO with float switches, and then a Ranco for heater failure protection, you can get a low end controller for a few more bucks and ditch the timers for your lights as well.

It is a convenience thing to an extent, but the safety they provide is a necessity due to cheap heaters.

I tend to agree with the heater controller issue especially. Since the control mechanism in the heater is the highest point of failure, and it seems when it fails that it fails in the on position, that investing in a Ranco heater controller is advised. I have seen far too many threads with cooked tanks.

snorvich · 02/16/2014, 11:03 AM

Now, for fuller disclosure. I use Profilux to control all sorts of stuff, but more because I love technology, and I use LED lights which are controllable. Except for temperature and ATO, a controller is probably a luxury rather than a necessity.

flamron · 02/16/2014, 11:08 AM

I'm away from my tank every day at work. It's nice to dial up an app on my phone and check on it whenever I have a minute.

Not a necessity by any means, but it's peace of mind for sure!

snorvich · 02/16/2014, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flamron

I'm away from my tank every day at work. It's nice to dial up an app on my phone and check on it whenever I have a minute.

Not a necessity by any means, but it's peace of mind for sure!

I agree. If I start dialing up my tank from my IPAD (I could), I might have to find a different wife.

02/15/2014, 05:00 PM	#1
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	Can you get by without a controller? Yes. A really nice controller can set you back 700 dollars. Most of us haven't got that hanging about as discretionary spending. They are really nice if you can afford a good one. Granted you can't---there are several measures you can take that substitute for having one. Back in the Jurassic we didn't have them, as a rule---and I still don't. 1. buy a top end heater: the Jager is good. We just had a lengthy discussion on how to set them, and the answer is, don't touch the red ring! That's the calibration. Move the blue ring. It's not the most user-friendly heater out there, but it's high quality and safer than some... 2. have two thermometers, one in your sump and one in your display, and check both if you note anything 'wrong' or just because its time. Develop the habit of laying your hand on your tank as you pass, and learn what 'right' feels like. 3. have a log book. This is a small cheap notebook in which you faithfully record the date and the following with blanks filled: Date/temperature/alkalinity/salinity. [Fish-onlies and softie reefs can stop here. Stony reefs continue:] Calcium/Magnesium. Plus add things like [added clownfish to tank] or [added buffer] or [new bulbs.] You should have tests and supplements for all these parameters, and stony reefs should consider kalk or two part. I'd add, if you're a fish-only, add the tests for nitrate and ammonia to your list. Reefs don't have to worry about that so much if the corals are spread out and happy. If corals tuck up, you betcha! run those two tests and run alkalinity, asap. And write down the result of the test and write down what you did about it. [One day you'll read the early part of your logbook and say, oh, dear...me...I remember. It is a great teaching tool, that book.] and (4) have an ATO (autotopoff) and a schedule for dealing with it. Usually you want a reservoir that will go at least a week. Mine will go a month. With those few things, you know what your temperature is and you're tracking some things that, if good, will mean good water and a happy tank...and you have the TREND of what's going on. Stuff runs out. Alkalinity starts to drop. You don't LET it get to a bad zone before you correct it by adding more buffer. That's what I mean when I say "dose INTO a trend, don't chase one!" Always correct a 'bad' trend before it gets to 'bad water.' Controllers automate this sort of thing. They're wonderful. BUT---you can do it yourself. And you can set things up so even your Aunt Tisiphone can handle it. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

02/15/2014, 05:56 PM	#3
flamron Professional Stick Gluer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: NW Arkansas Posts: 2,216	A heater controller is a minimum IMO. That's the reason to have any controller for me. Even if it's a Ranco. But if you're going to do an ATO with float switches, and then a Ranco for heater failure protection, you can get a low end controller for a few more bucks and ditch the timers for your lights as well. It is a convenience thing to an extent, but the safety they provide is a necessity due to cheap heaters. __________________ Ronnie 60g cube - Ghost Overflow - ATI 8 bulb dimmable sunpower - Apex - MP10s - Synergy sump

02/15/2014, 06:08 PM	#4
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	Heaters are indeed a caution: if you handle them carefully and are the ONLY person who handles them (brother Fred neglects to tell you he picked it up and let it swing against the wall, whack!) you are much safer. I don't jnow how to warn you except---spend the wad on a heater. The best. I've been at this a long, long time, and I've had heaters go out, but I've never had a specimen loss due to the problem. Absolutely they are one of THE most dangerous pieces of equipment going: they can catch fire and burn your house down, overheat your tank, underheat your tank, and generally have to be protected from water even if they assure you their tops are safe and sealed, and otherwise --- don't believe what they say until you see it confirmed by two thermometers saying the same thing. I have never had ANY heater that told me the truth except the Jager, and I don't trust it. It could lie next week. Paranoid? Yes. Never trust the printed numbers and never set a heater and leave it without multiple checks on what it's doing. Also note that your ambient temperature matters! Minute you hit a warm spell, check your tank temperature; the night it dips below freezing, check your tank. It's not hard. I have a digital thermometer on the tank and another one, and when they agree and the tank feels right to the touch, ok. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

02/15/2014, 06:16 PM	#5
maddmaxx Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Jersey Shore Posts: 3,003	very good call on touching the tank to feel the semi temp. i do this daily, and thought it was just me lol... __________________ One Life One Shot Current Tank Info: 40B Mixed reef

02/15/2014, 06:17 PM	#6
flamron Professional Stick Gluer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: NW Arkansas Posts: 2,216	My controller tells me if the temp falls out of a range of 76-82. __________________ Ronnie 60g cube - Ghost Overflow - ATI 8 bulb dimmable sunpower - Apex - MP10s - Synergy sump

02/15/2014, 05:41 PM	#2
GT350pwns Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 600	Thanks for this! great info!

02/15/2014, 07:04 PM	#7
Johnnycat Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 86	Thanks for posting this. I'm on the fence about a controller, but I have a separate ATO that I trust and a separate dosing pump already. My lights don't do fancy sunrise and sunset and I have to manually stop my pumps and power heads for feeding, but I think I can manage for a little while. It would be really nice to have that controller and I'm sure I will some day. Right now I don't don't have the cash after buying all the other equipment.

02/16/2014, 10:35 AM	#8
Terefel Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Newport Beach, CA Posts: 303	With respect to the log book, the spreadsheet available through this forum is super cool. It guides you through each of the items sk8r referenced above. __________________ Young and growing 40B mixed reef

02/16/2014, 11:03 AM	#10
snorvich Team RC member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Outlander Posts: 40,953 Blog Entries: 46	Now, for fuller disclosure. I use Profilux to control all sorts of stuff, but more because I love technology, and I use LED lights which are controllable. Except for temperature and ATO, a controller is probably a luxury rather than a necessity. __________________ Warmest regards, ~Steve~

02/16/2014, 11:08 AM	#11
flamron Professional Stick Gluer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: NW Arkansas Posts: 2,216	I'm away from my tank every day at work. It's nice to dial up an app on my phone and check on it whenever I have a minute. Not a necessity by any means, but it's peace of mind for sure! __________________ Ronnie 60g cube - Ghost Overflow - ATI 8 bulb dimmable sunpower - Apex - MP10s - Synergy sump