I need Input from Experienced People

mcozad829 · 03/06/2014, 08:52 AM

Hi I am relatively new to Saltwater Aquaria about 5 years experience. I currently have an 85 Gallon Corner aggressive fowlr tank. I am planning on upgrading this year to a 300 gallon fowlr and turning my 85 into a reef tank. I would like share what I am currently using, what I plan to use on the 300 fowlr and ask what else I am going to need to add to the 85 to successfully facilitate coral growth.

Currently
85 gallon
Eschopps RS-200 Sump W/ Filter Socks
Coral life 220 protein skimmer
24 watt uv sterilizer
36" dual t-5 lighting 10k +420
115 LBS base and live rock

Proposed fowlr
300 gallon
Eschopps RS-300 Sump W/ Filter Socks
Red Sea 375 in-line filter w/uv sterilizer
Skimz monster e-series skimmer
Iwaki Return pump 1600 gph (already own)
Dual T-5 lighting (i will use the 36" from above and add a 48")
(this will have large aggressive fish that put out a lot of waste)

So I know I will be upgrading the light on the 85 probably to a hamilton cebu sun 400w hqi and 4x24w T-5. Other than that, everything on my 85 is usable when I convert it to a reef. What else do I need? Any recommended changes to my 300 gallon setup? Any input would be great Thank You.

Mike

dkeller_nc · 03/06/2014, 10:21 AM

Hmm - well, the other things needed for your 85 gallon would be (besides obvious things that you don't mention, like a heater):

Test kits - Salifert for Ca, Alk, Mg; Hanna Checker 713 for Phosphate

Test Instrumentation - Refractometer for specific gravity, preferably the digital kind.

ATO - while in theory you can keep up with evaporation manually, a high-functioning ATO will keep your tank much more stable. Tunze universal osmolators are rock-solid and proven.

Some means of maintaining Ca and Alk. That could be a calcium reactor, or a 2-part dosing system (i.e., either a couple of BRS dosing pumps controlled by an aquarium controller, or a dedicated aquarium doser).

A reactor of some sort to put GAC and/or GFO into. The TLF phosban reactors work very well and are very inexpensive.

Circulation pumps for the interior of the tank. Vortechs would be my choice, others like Tunze. Least expensive are the non-controllable Hydor Koralias. Cheap but potentially problematic are the Chinese-made Tunze rip-offs.

RODI - I'm assuming you already have one of these.

As for your 300 gallon Fowlr, I'd ditch the red sea particulate filter, you don't need it. If you really want to run particulate filtration, filter socks are far easier to maintain. UV is also unnecessary, because you must quarantine any of your new fish purchases outside of your display tank and a UV will do little if a disease is introduced.

mcozad829 · 03/06/2014, 11:15 AM

Ok this is what I need. Heaters and testing equipment go without saying but I wasn't sure as to the necessity of a phosban or calcium reactor. Haven't needed them for my fish but I know coral is a whole new ball game. As far as the RO/DI system I do not have one. This is because I don't have a water source near my tank but this will change when we move into our bigger house. I am going to plumb one in and designate a closet for remote filtration. Currently I buy distilled water for 88 cents a gallon and add 1-2 gallons per week.

Nace · 03/06/2014, 12:46 PM

I would strongly recommend getting a RO/DI system when you can. It will save you in the long run. You will not need a calcium reactor right away or ever depending on what type of coral you want to keep. Even SPS wont need one at first and levels can be kept by doing standard weekly water changes. Of course if you flood the system with large colonies right off the bat you would need to look into either a reactor or 2-part type system.

mcozad829 · 03/06/2014, 02:28 PM

I plan on starting out with some of the hardier lps corals but if I know me it won't be enough. My long term goal is to be able to keep acropora corals. How would you do it if you wanted to get acropora's in say 2 years? It's not really about the money, within reason. I don't want to get this now and plan on upgrading later. Assuming I have about a $1500 budget for the reef tank:

Light Fixture $600
RO/DI system $200
Phosban Reactor $100
Wavemakers $200

This still leaves room in my budget. With the remaining funds what is going to improve the quality of my system the best?

acabgd · 03/06/2014, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcozad829

This still leaves room in my budget. With the remaining funds what is going to improve the quality of my system the best?

Good quality skimmer.

mcozad829 · 03/06/2014, 03:21 PM

Is the coral life 220 not good quality? I have been using it for over a year and have been really happy with it. Considering my first skimmer was a sea-clown, I thought the coral-life was a huge improvement.

Sk8r · 03/06/2014, 06:30 PM

Requirements for lps coral are in my sig line. Ditch the filter sock most of the time: and a so-so skimmer is actually a good thing. They feed on particulate in the water, and like their water a little less crystal-pure than, say, sps. Keep them 6" apart until you know who's got the ability to reach. You will find a kalk-laced ATO a sanity saver. SEt your water to my parameters, then dump kalk into your ATO reservoir (2 tsp per gallon) and lid the reservoir. Use foam or even rolled paper towel for a gasket on the seal. Works like a charm. Euphyllias are a good starter: tough as nails. Corals of that class can even survive a cycle.

Mg4life0331 · 03/06/2014, 06:57 PM

I didn't see anything about RO/DI. I'm new to this, but after reading about RO/DI and reading all these people fight algae, I'm glad I listened to Sk8r, snorvich, randy, disc, among others here.

Do yourself that favor.

Aquatron · 03/06/2014, 07:49 PM

UV sterilizer, ozone, and fluidized sand filter

codyreed29 · 03/06/2014, 08:18 PM

LOL you are ready for advice. I would go with some good lights i'm guess you have a 36 length tank. Then depending on coral choice a lot of water flow 50 times turnover minimal for sps corals. Filtration a good reef octopus or buble magus a Rodi bulk reef supply sells a 75gpd for 129.99. If you want a phosban and uv filter socks alone with skimmer is Good to add will be good Autotopoff if you feal like it not a must. If you have a budget go with cheaper light and better skimmer in my opinion I buy from http://www.aquatraders.com/48-716W-M...bo-p/54267.htm can get a good fixture cheap and buy a reef octopus and rodi from bulkreefsupply.com

codyreed29 · 03/06/2014, 08:21 PM

If you want to dose you can do manually with test kits or BUY a real good salt. Using expensive salts such a kg or red sea mix will keep your paramaters in check with water changes something you need should do anyways. that's up to you.

mcozad829 · 03/06/2014, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by codyreed29

LOL you are ready for advice. I would go with some good lights i'm guess you have a 36 length tank. Then depending on coral choice a lot of water flow 50 times turnover minimal for sps corals. Filtration a good reef octopus or buble magus a Rodi bulk reef supply sells a 75gpd for 129.99. If you want a phosban and uv filter socks alone with skimmer is Good to add will be good Autotopoff if you feal like it not a must. If you have a budget go with cheaper light and better skimmer in my opinion I buy from http://www.aquatraders.com/48-716W-M...bo-p/54267.htm can get a good fixture cheap and buy a reef octopus and rodi from bulkreefsupply.com

I really hope you mean turnover 50 times a day right?

The tank is actually 48" across the front but 24" across the back (flat back corner bow front) so with the canopy and walls its very difficult to fit lights for this system. I still don't know what I want for the lights led or halide. I would stick with t-5's but because of the shape of the tank I cannot get enough of them in there to have strong enough lighting. Thanks for the info.

mcozad829 · 03/07/2014, 08:42 AM

The more time I spend on this forum, looking at all the wonderful reef tanks, the more I am considering making the 300 gallon the reef tank and just selling the 85 and doing away with the aggressive tank.

dkeller_nc · 03/07/2014, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcozad829

The more time I spend on this forum, looking at all the wonderful reef tanks, the more I am considering making the 300 gallon the reef tank and just selling the 85 and doing away with the aggressive tank.

Unless you have your heart set on fish that are incompatible with a reef (i.e., many butterfly fishes, certain triggers, etc...), that's a plan that will potentially save you money in the long run.

However there are some aspects of a very large tank (>150 gallons) that you should be aware of. One's water chemistry - unless you invest in an automatic water changing system, or have fresh saltwater for water changes plumbed from a mixing station, it will be extremely difficult to keep calcium and alkalinity where they need to be by water changes alone.

Another one is lighting. High quality, high intensity lighting fixtures are easily the most expensive pieces of equipment on a reef tank, both in terms of initial purchase price and power usage. The more square footage that you have, the more light fixtures and more power you'll need.

Finally, keep in mind that with a tank this large, you're going to want to pony up the coin for a battery bank and inverter/charger, as well as a generator. 300 gallons can easily hold $10k worth of animals, and the potential for a catastrophic loss of investment is definitely worth considering...

Fish Biscuit · 03/07/2014, 11:23 AM

ATO is a life saver. When it comes to lighting & a skimmer, buy the best equipment you can afford. There is always someone getting out of the hobby or bought an extra light that they didn't need or decided to go another route.

I bought a used MP40 on the forum, I don't care that it's 9 years old. Works like a charm & worth every penny.

mcozad829 · 03/07/2014, 08:10 PM

Thanks fish biscuit, these are some very good points you have made. I have always wanted a predator tank and I've had one for about a year now, I'm bored with the limitations I have placed on myself. They get so finicky with who is gonna kill who and the fact that I can really only keep about 4 moderate sized fish leaves me wishing for more options.

I've been researching it and I think I am going to give it a go for the 300 gallon reef. I'll take my budget from both projects and combine them and continue to make purchases every month until I get everything I need, heck maybe within a year I could fill a glass box with water.
And you aren't joking about the lights... the tank Im planning on buying is only $1600 but the lights i am considering are $2300

nicholasb · 03/07/2014, 10:39 PM

You will definately need some sorrt of phosphate/activated carbon reactor, for the reef tank. Apart from some new lights, and a few test kits if you have good flow, your good to go. Just take it slow!!.

dkeller_nc · 03/08/2014, 08:32 AM

One option on the lights is to go with metal halides. The initial purchase price will be a lot lower than the equivalent coverage in LED fixtures, though the power consumption will be considerably higher. LED fixtures are continually and rapidly improving in terms of spectrum, coverage and price. You could start with metal halides, and gradually replace them with LEDs over time if you choose.

One aspect of metal halides is the heat that they put off. That can mean that you have to run a chiller if the tank is set up with the halides inside a hood. However, I've seen plenty of tanks with metal halide pendants (and no hood) that didn't need a chiller.

03/06/2014, 08:52 AM	#1
mcozad829 Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Natchitoches, LA Posts: 619 Blog Entries: 1	I need Input from Experienced People Hi I am relatively new to Saltwater Aquaria about 5 years experience. I currently have an 85 Gallon Corner aggressive fowlr tank. I am planning on upgrading this year to a 300 gallon fowlr and turning my 85 into a reef tank. I would like share what I am currently using, what I plan to use on the 300 fowlr and ask what else I am going to need to add to the 85 to successfully facilitate coral growth. Currently 85 gallon Eschopps RS-200 Sump W/ Filter Socks Coral life 220 protein skimmer 24 watt uv sterilizer 36" dual t-5 lighting 10k +420 115 LBS base and live rock Proposed fowlr 300 gallon Eschopps RS-300 Sump W/ Filter Socks Red Sea 375 in-line filter w/uv sterilizer Skimz monster e-series skimmer Iwaki Return pump 1600 gph (already own) Dual T-5 lighting (i will use the 36" from above and add a 48") (this will have large aggressive fish that put out a lot of waste) So I know I will be upgrading the light on the 85 probably to a hamilton cebu sun 400w hqi and 4x24w T-5. Other than that, everything on my 85 is usable when I convert it to a reef. What else do I need? Any recommended changes to my 300 gallon setup? Any input would be great Thank You. Mike

03/06/2014, 11:15 AM	#3
mcozad829 Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Natchitoches, LA Posts: 619 Blog Entries: 1	I left out the obvious Ok this is what I need. Heaters and testing equipment go without saying but I wasn't sure as to the necessity of a phosban or calcium reactor. Haven't needed them for my fish but I know coral is a whole new ball game. As far as the RO/DI system I do not have one. This is because I don't have a water source near my tank but this will change when we move into our bigger house. I am going to plumb one in and designate a closet for remote filtration. Currently I buy distilled water for 88 cents a gallon and add 1-2 gallons per week.

03/06/2014, 06:30 PM	#8
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	Requirements for lps coral are in my sig line. Ditch the filter sock most of the time: and a so-so skimmer is actually a good thing. They feed on particulate in the water, and like their water a little less crystal-pure than, say, sps. Keep them 6" apart until you know who's got the ability to reach. You will find a kalk-laced ATO a sanity saver. SEt your water to my parameters, then dump kalk into your ATO reservoir (2 tsp per gallon) and lid the reservoir. Use foam or even rolled paper towel for a gasket on the seal. Works like a charm. Euphyllias are a good starter: tough as nails. Corals of that class can even survive a cycle. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

03/06/2014, 07:49 PM	#10
Aquatron Refugium pat.#D414,242 Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 844	UV sterilizer, ozone, and fluidized sand filter __________________ Doctor "Aquatron" Mister "Spinner" 300 gallon TRUVU AquaSystem "Mod" w/ 150 gallon control center....... Build Thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2276765&highlight=300+dt+

03/06/2014, 08:18 PM	#11
codyreed29 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 892	LOL you are ready for advice. I would go with some good lights i'm guess you have a 36 length tank. Then depending on coral choice a lot of water flow 50 times turnover minimal for sps corals. Filtration a good reef octopus or buble magus a Rodi bulk reef supply sells a 75gpd for 129.99. If you want a phosban and uv filter socks alone with skimmer is Good to add will be good Autotopoff if you feal like it not a must. If you have a budget go with cheaper light and better skimmer in my opinion I buy from http://www.aquatraders.com/48-716W-M...bo-p/54267.htm can get a good fixture cheap and buy a reef octopus and rodi from bulkreefsupply.com __________________ 27 Rimless cube DIY lights and sump mag 5 cad lights pls 100 jeabo rw4 jeabo dp4

03/06/2014, 10:21 AM	#2
dkeller_nc Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Central NC Posts: 5,062	Hmm - well, the other things needed for your 85 gallon would be (besides obvious things that you don't mention, like a heater): Test kits - Salifert for Ca, Alk, Mg; Hanna Checker 713 for Phosphate Test Instrumentation - Refractometer for specific gravity, preferably the digital kind. ATO - while in theory you can keep up with evaporation manually, a high-functioning ATO will keep your tank much more stable. Tunze universal osmolators are rock-solid and proven. Some means of maintaining Ca and Alk. That could be a calcium reactor, or a 2-part dosing system (i.e., either a couple of BRS dosing pumps controlled by an aquarium controller, or a dedicated aquarium doser). A reactor of some sort to put GAC and/or GFO into. The TLF phosban reactors work very well and are very inexpensive. Circulation pumps for the interior of the tank. Vortechs would be my choice, others like Tunze. Least expensive are the non-controllable Hydor Koralias. Cheap but potentially problematic are the Chinese-made Tunze rip-offs. RODI - I'm assuming you already have one of these. As for your 300 gallon Fowlr, I'd ditch the red sea particulate filter, you don't need it. If you really want to run particulate filtration, filter socks are far easier to maintain. UV is also unnecessary, because you must quarantine any of your new fish purchases outside of your display tank and a UV will do little if a disease is introduced.

03/06/2014, 12:46 PM	#4
Nace Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 72	I would strongly recommend getting a RO/DI system when you can. It will save you in the long run. You will not need a calcium reactor right away or ever depending on what type of coral you want to keep. Even SPS wont need one at first and levels can be kept by doing standard weekly water changes. Of course if you flood the system with large colonies right off the bat you would need to look into either a reactor or 2-part type system.

03/06/2014, 02:28 PM	#5
mcozad829 Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Natchitoches, LA Posts: 619 Blog Entries: 1	I plan on starting out with some of the hardier lps corals but if I know me it won't be enough. My long term goal is to be able to keep acropora corals. How would you do it if you wanted to get acropora's in say 2 years? It's not really about the money, within reason. I don't want to get this now and plan on upgrading later. Assuming I have about a $1500 budget for the reef tank: Light Fixture $600 RO/DI system $200 Phosban Reactor $100 Wavemakers $200 This still leaves room in my budget. With the remaining funds what is going to improve the quality of my system the best?

03/06/2014, 03:21 PM	#7
mcozad829 Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Natchitoches, LA Posts: 619 Blog Entries: 1	Is the coral life 220 not good quality? I have been using it for over a year and have been really happy with it. Considering my first skimmer was a sea-clown, I thought the coral-life was a huge improvement.

03/06/2014, 06:57 PM	#9
Mg4life0331 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Tallahassee Posts: 353	I didn't see anything about RO/DI. I'm new to this, but after reading about RO/DI and reading all these people fight algae, I'm glad I listened to Sk8r, snorvich, randy, disc, among others here. Do yourself that favor.

03/06/2014, 08:21 PM	#12
codyreed29 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 892	If you want to dose you can do manually with test kits or BUY a real good salt. Using expensive salts such a kg or red sea mix will keep your paramaters in check with water changes something you need should do anyways. that's up to you. __________________ 27 Rimless cube DIY lights and sump mag 5 cad lights pls 100 jeabo rw4 jeabo dp4

03/07/2014, 08:42 AM	#14
mcozad829 Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Natchitoches, LA Posts: 619 Blog Entries: 1	The more time I spend on this forum, looking at all the wonderful reef tanks, the more I am considering making the 300 gallon the reef tank and just selling the 85 and doing away with the aggressive tank.

03/07/2014, 11:23 AM	#16
Fish Biscuit Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,164	ATO is a life saver. When it comes to lighting & a skimmer, buy the best equipment you can afford. There is always someone getting out of the hobby or bought an extra light that they didn't need or decided to go another route. I bought a used MP40 on the forum, I don't care that it's 9 years old. Works like a charm & worth every penny. __________________ Michele I enjoy vodka entirely too much to share with the fish. Current Tank Info: 65 rimless with Eshopps R200 sump, current inhabitants randall goby, helfrichi, possum wrasse, barnacle blenny, mandarin, pistol, peppermint, & fire shrimp, snails, hermits, & LPS

03/07/2014, 08:10 PM	#17
mcozad829 Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Natchitoches, LA Posts: 619 Blog Entries: 1	Thanks fish biscuit, these are some very good points you have made. I have always wanted a predator tank and I've had one for about a year now, I'm bored with the limitations I have placed on myself. They get so finicky with who is gonna kill who and the fact that I can really only keep about 4 moderate sized fish leaves me wishing for more options. I've been researching it and I think I am going to give it a go for the 300 gallon reef. I'll take my budget from both projects and combine them and continue to make purchases every month until I get everything I need, heck maybe within a year I could fill a glass box with water. And you aren't joking about the lights... the tank Im planning on buying is only $1600 but the lights i am considering are $2300

03/07/2014, 10:39 PM	#18
nicholasb Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: south west england Posts: 292	You will definately need some sorrt of phosphate/activated carbon reactor, for the reef tank. Apart from some new lights, and a few test kits if you have good flow, your good to go. Just take it slow!!.

03/08/2014, 08:32 AM	#19
dkeller_nc Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Central NC Posts: 5,062	One option on the lights is to go with metal halides. The initial purchase price will be a lot lower than the equivalent coverage in LED fixtures, though the power consumption will be considerably higher. LED fixtures are continually and rapidly improving in terms of spectrum, coverage and price. You could start with metal halides, and gradually replace them with LEDs over time if you choose. One aspect of metal halides is the heat that they put off. That can mean that you have to run a chiller if the tank is set up with the halides inside a hood. However, I've seen plenty of tanks with metal halide pendants (and no hood) that didn't need a chiller.