When to worry...things you do and don't want to find hitchhiking...

Sk8r · 03/23/2014, 09:42 AM

Bad things:
1. mantis shrimp in a reef. Kills fish.
2. pistol shrimp in a reef. Ditto, eventually, as they get bigger. The pistol goby pair is very interesting in a small tank, but the tiger pistol in particular is a problem as it grows.
Warning sign: loud sounds from the tank at night. Pops or snaps.
3. eunicid worm: kind of like a centipede with tentacles atop its head.
4. fireworm: has a very 'fluffy' appearance down its sides, bristles that make it really quite beautiful.
5. hairy crabs are particularly bad; crabs with a large claw are bad; in general, the only 'safe' crab is the emerald mithrax; but even they can get a bit nippy with fish fins. In general they don't eat bubble algae---or not very much of it. In my tanks, I think the record is two bubbles and a chunk out of a mandy's finnage. Do not buy a sally lightfoot crab for a reef: they get the size of a dinner plate; do not buy an arrow crab---they eat your bristleworms, and this is a bad thing. But they're neat critters.

6. caulerpa algae in any form: starting from a sump fuge, it reproduces from any fragment, or from spores; it gets through the pump, it roots in your rockwork where nothing can remove it; and it's toxic to eat. Few fish can eat it. It can take a tank, especially a tank too small to have the fish that can eat it...and that fish grows large and kills tankmates when it feels cramped. Not a good thing, no.
7. nudibranchs: sea slugs---no big deal most times, but if you have zoas, they eat those, and they can lay eggs. A tank that is a waystation to your main tank is a good idea (ie, a qt). Dipping is where you start, but corals that come on complex rockwork can deliver surprises. Caution is a good thing.
8. little red bugs that you need a magnifying glass to see: bad news for sps corals, particularly. Dip. And buy from known clean sources or friends whose tanks you know are clean.
9. asterina stars (little starfish always one arm short---) are in both the good and bad column, depending on what you keep. Zoa keepers, as I recall, don't like them. They've never given me any trouble.
10. little majano or aiptasia anemones: minor problem, usually. I always keep a couple of peppermint shrimp, since I seem to grow aiptasia in my fuge. One of my peps is getting very large and fat. But I keep sps and lps corals with no fuss. I've been known to move a torch coral next to a persistent stand of these stinging creatures: torch is just as nasty in that department.
11. tiny little brown fuzz that, if magnified, looks like trees with branches: hydroids. They sting, too. If you have a rock with hydroids, one trick is to coat the outbreak with reef putty, or remove the rock. I've also had some success just flipping the rock and burying the colony in the sandbed.
12. little things that look like the Star Trek symbol...triangular with a forked tail: flatworms. Consult here before you try removal and we'll walk you through it safely. These are not a good critter for your tank. Some flatworms also appear in large economy size, but I've never seen one of those: most are quite tiny.
13. a little crustacean with black alien eyes (you know, the Roswell aliens) ---cirolanid isopod: parasite on fish.
14. white saltlike dots on your fish that aren't sand grains that fall off again: these are pimples produced by the ich parasite, and no, a cleaner shrimp or goby can't cure it. This is a nearly invisible [near-microscopic] parasite that lives in your sandbed, and this is why you use quarantine in a bare glass tank, to be sure this parasite can't reach your main sandbed.

Good things to find: worms, bristleworms, spaghetti worms, shell-less snails [stomatella], various small corals and buttons, sponges, in general---sponges are hard to grow, in most tanks, so an outbreak of little white pineapple sponges tends to be brief. Same with little brittle stars and a plague of asterinas---as soon as they consume whatever they have in excess, they die back.
The meme has it that worms are good unless you have 'too many.' Well, that's not true. WOrms in just about any number short of heaving masses are good because they're eating something your tank has too much of. They and your skimmer are cleaning up the excess in your tank, and if you get something to kill the worms you'll still have the excess. Let them work, in general, until they've done their job. Then they'll gradually die back and you won't have many worms. Understand they don't have jaws, don't really even have mouths, just an opening with suction that takes in food: all they can eat is slime or dissolving food pellet, particle at a time. They don't bother corals, they don't bother fish (if your clown gets a faceful of spines from them, it's ok: the fish will learn after a while and stop trying to use the worm's burrow. The spines fall off harmlessly after about 3 days unless he's getting a nightly dose.) Just treasure your worms. The two exceptions are above. There are some that get about a foot long: these usually inhabit a particular rock and only stretch out to get food, then retreat rapidly.
Little white bugs are good: these are copepods and tiny fish love them. Dragonets have to have them.
Little funny crustacean swimmers are good: amphipods.
In general, most that comes in with our rock is beneficial. Accept it. It's why I don't 'cook' live rock that I get that's full of life. I want whatever it can bring in---and on average, it's really good, interesting stuff. Some people want to 'control' their tanks---that's ok; but I prefer the wild and wooly rock, so to speak. Two different strokes for two different folks. Both work.

GT350pwns · 03/23/2014, 10:02 AM

Add fulgida worm to that list of stuff you don't really want to find lol

Thanks again sk8er, great write up!

mcozad829 · 03/23/2014, 10:55 AM

sk8er,

Can you elaborate on crabs? I am about to order a clean-up crew and have been getting mixed opinions, do you consider hermit crabs reef safe? Dwarf hermits? Thanks!

dkeller_nc · 03/23/2014, 12:53 PM

Add vermetid worms to the "bad" list. They don't directly kill desirable creatures, but they do steal food from them, and can reproduce in a tank to reach plague proportions. You can recognize them by the calcerous tube they build, and the sticky strands of mucous they produce that look like spider's webs.

mcozad829 - Many authors state that all crabs are potentially omnivorous (blue-legged hermits are often listed as "herbivorous"). They can definitely assassinate snails for their shells, and if the tank is only sparsely fed, I've seen them attack and eat red/green star polyps and zoas.

Sk8r · 03/23/2014, 05:21 PM

I love micro hermits: scarlets are my favorite inverts. THere are people (probably without zoas) who love them; and people who detest them. One of my fellows is about the size of your knuckle (with shell) and has been with me many years. He's not a scarlet---don't really know what he is, but he's definitely micro. The big ones that are sold specifically for pets are of course way out of scale and would be dangerous; micro hermits are about the size of your little fingernail (without shell) and never get larger.

Buy a handful of empty shells for the hermits and you'll have far less trouble with them dispossessing snails. I buy shells every time I make an invert order, and I've never noticed a problem with snail murder. SNails are tolerably short-lived, because some (pointy ones) fall over when they try to cross a sandbed and die of starvation or predation; some are sold inappropriately---our tanks are near 80 degrees, and margaritas are closer to 70. Some just chug along forever: nassarius and cerith, and really are two of the better varieties to have. Nassarius live submerged in the sandbed and keep things clean, and clean up any dieoff, as well. About 2 big ones per 50 gallon tank.

Just figure whether you're going to like crabs or not. NEITHER is going to clean your tank spotlessly, but they are part of that 'circle of life' thing and help if you have something die in your tank. THeir big initial job is to prepare your sandbed for fish, which takes about 4 weeks between cycle and first fish. Their poo is far more lightweight than most fish poo. Remove algae? Nothing does that but GFO. Maybe an urchin, in a very small tank. Crabs and snails are just part of the life that goes on, and it's your choice, on those.

Sk8r · 03/23/2014, 05:26 PM

Really, srsly, TRY to buy what you buy because you like them, not because they're going to do thus-and-such a job in the tank. Honestly nothing eats hair algae, bubble or whatnot---there is a fix for it; but likewise, don't expect a sea hare or an urchin to take care of it; mithrax crabs won't eat enough bubble to matter. GFO is the way to go if you have an algae problem; but a good cleanup crew will prep the waste for the sandbed to digest: they're kind of the middle stage in converting fish poo into tiny, tiny particles that slip right down in the sandbed for bacteria to work on. So in general, they're good things to have. Just most people mistake what their job is and expect algae miracles. Really, their big job is poo.

mcozad829 · 03/23/2014, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sk8r

Really, srsly, TRY to buy what you buy because you like them, not because they're going to do thus-and-such a job in the tank. Honestly nothing eats hair algae, bubble or whatnot---there is a fix for it; but likewise, don't expect a sea hare or an urchin to take care of it; mithrax crabs won't eat enough bubble to matter. GFO is the way to go if you have an algae problem; but a good cleanup crew will prep the waste for the sandbed to digest: they're kind of the middle stage in converting fish poo into tiny, tiny particles that slip right down in the sandbed for bacteria to work on. So in general, they're good things to have. Just most people mistake what their job is and expect algae miracles. Really, their big job is poo.

I am not trying to eliminate any specific problem with them, I am running GFO and don't have an algae problem (minor cyanobacteria but not enough to fret over). I mainly want crabs (hehe) just for the diversity in the tank, I like the emerald mithrax and hermits, I just want to make sure I am not setting myself up for a headache when I start to add LPS and fanworms.

Sk8r · 03/24/2014, 01:41 PM

Don't know about fanworms: fish seem the bigger problem. Crabs may clamber over your corals, but their tiny feet and low mass just don't seem to bother the coral. A zoa might close temporarily, probably as much because of the crab's shadow as his feet.

03/23/2014, 09:42 AM	#1
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	When to worry...things you do and don't want to find hitchhiking... Bad things: 1. mantis shrimp in a reef. Kills fish. 2. pistol shrimp in a reef. Ditto, eventually, as they get bigger. The pistol goby pair is very interesting in a small tank, but the tiger pistol in particular is a problem as it grows. Warning sign: loud sounds from the tank at night. Pops or snaps. 3. eunicid worm: kind of like a centipede with tentacles atop its head. 4. fireworm: has a very 'fluffy' appearance down its sides, bristles that make it really quite beautiful. 5. hairy crabs are particularly bad; crabs with a large claw are bad; in general, the only 'safe' crab is the emerald mithrax; but even they can get a bit nippy with fish fins. In general they don't eat bubble algae---or not very much of it. In my tanks, I think the record is two bubbles and a chunk out of a mandy's finnage. Do not buy a sally lightfoot crab for a reef: they get the size of a dinner plate; do not buy an arrow crab---they eat your bristleworms, and this is a bad thing. But they're neat critters. 6. caulerpa algae in any form: starting from a sump fuge, it reproduces from any fragment, or from spores; it gets through the pump, it roots in your rockwork where nothing can remove it; and it's toxic to eat. Few fish can eat it. It can take a tank, especially a tank too small to have the fish that can eat it...and that fish grows large and kills tankmates when it feels cramped. Not a good thing, no. 7. nudibranchs: sea slugs---no big deal most times, but if you have zoas, they eat those, and they can lay eggs. A tank that is a waystation to your main tank is a good idea (ie, a qt). Dipping is where you start, but corals that come on complex rockwork can deliver surprises. Caution is a good thing. 8. little red bugs that you need a magnifying glass to see: bad news for sps corals, particularly. Dip. And buy from known clean sources or friends whose tanks you know are clean. 9. asterina stars (little starfish always one arm short---) are in both the good and bad column, depending on what you keep. Zoa keepers, as I recall, don't like them. They've never given me any trouble. 10. little majano or aiptasia anemones: minor problem, usually. I always keep a couple of peppermint shrimp, since I seem to grow aiptasia in my fuge. One of my peps is getting very large and fat. But I keep sps and lps corals with no fuss. I've been known to move a torch coral next to a persistent stand of these stinging creatures: torch is just as nasty in that department. 11. tiny little brown fuzz that, if magnified, looks like trees with branches: hydroids. They sting, too. If you have a rock with hydroids, one trick is to coat the outbreak with reef putty, or remove the rock. I've also had some success just flipping the rock and burying the colony in the sandbed. 12. little things that look like the Star Trek symbol...triangular with a forked tail: flatworms. Consult here before you try removal and we'll walk you through it safely. These are not a good critter for your tank. Some flatworms also appear in large economy size, but I've never seen one of those: most are quite tiny. 13. a little crustacean with black alien eyes (you know, the Roswell aliens) ---cirolanid isopod: parasite on fish. 14. white saltlike dots on your fish that aren't sand grains that fall off again: these are pimples produced by the ich parasite, and no, a cleaner shrimp or goby can't cure it. This is a nearly invisible [near-microscopic] parasite that lives in your sandbed, and this is why you use quarantine in a bare glass tank, to be sure this parasite can't reach your main sandbed. Good things to find: worms, bristleworms, spaghetti worms, shell-less snails [stomatella], various small corals and buttons, sponges, in general---sponges are hard to grow, in most tanks, so an outbreak of little white pineapple sponges tends to be brief. Same with little brittle stars and a plague of asterinas---as soon as they consume whatever they have in excess, they die back. The meme has it that worms are good unless you have 'too many.' Well, that's not true. WOrms in just about any number short of heaving masses are good because they're eating something your tank has too much of. They and your skimmer are cleaning up the excess in your tank, and if you get something to kill the worms you'll still have the excess. Let them work, in general, until they've done their job. Then they'll gradually die back and you won't have many worms. Understand they don't have jaws, don't really even have mouths, just an opening with suction that takes in food: all they can eat is slime or dissolving food pellet, particle at a time. They don't bother corals, they don't bother fish (if your clown gets a faceful of spines from them, it's ok: the fish will learn after a while and stop trying to use the worm's burrow. The spines fall off harmlessly after about 3 days unless he's getting a nightly dose.) Just treasure your worms. The two exceptions are above. There are some that get about a foot long: these usually inhabit a particular rock and only stretch out to get food, then retreat rapidly. Little white bugs are good: these are copepods and tiny fish love them. Dragonets have to have them. Little funny crustacean swimmers are good: amphipods. In general, most that comes in with our rock is beneficial. Accept it. It's why I don't 'cook' live rock that I get that's full of life. I want whatever it can bring in---and on average, it's really good, interesting stuff. Some people want to 'control' their tanks---that's ok; but I prefer the wild and wooly rock, so to speak. Two different strokes for two different folks. Both work. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%. Last edited by Sk8r; 03/23/2014 at 10:20 AM.

03/23/2014, 10:55 AM	#3
mcozad829 Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Natchitoches, LA Posts: 619 Blog Entries: 1	sk8er, Can you elaborate on crabs? I am about to order a clean-up crew and have been getting mixed opinions, do you consider hermit crabs reef safe? Dwarf hermits? Thanks! __________________ "You'll have plenty of time for rolling doobies... when you're living in a van... down by the river!"

03/23/2014, 05:21 PM	#5
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	I love micro hermits: scarlets are my favorite inverts. THere are people (probably without zoas) who love them; and people who detest them. One of my fellows is about the size of your knuckle (with shell) and has been with me many years. He's not a scarlet---don't really know what he is, but he's definitely micro. The big ones that are sold specifically for pets are of course way out of scale and would be dangerous; micro hermits are about the size of your little fingernail (without shell) and never get larger. Buy a handful of empty shells for the hermits and you'll have far less trouble with them dispossessing snails. I buy shells every time I make an invert order, and I've never noticed a problem with snail murder. SNails are tolerably short-lived, because some (pointy ones) fall over when they try to cross a sandbed and die of starvation or predation; some are sold inappropriately---our tanks are near 80 degrees, and margaritas are closer to 70. Some just chug along forever: nassarius and cerith, and really are two of the better varieties to have. Nassarius live submerged in the sandbed and keep things clean, and clean up any dieoff, as well. About 2 big ones per 50 gallon tank. Just figure whether you're going to like crabs or not. NEITHER is going to clean your tank spotlessly, but they are part of that 'circle of life' thing and help if you have something die in your tank. THeir big initial job is to prepare your sandbed for fish, which takes about 4 weeks between cycle and first fish. Their poo is far more lightweight than most fish poo. Remove algae? Nothing does that but GFO. Maybe an urchin, in a very small tank. Crabs and snails are just part of the life that goes on, and it's your choice, on those. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

03/23/2014, 05:26 PM	#6
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	Really, srsly, TRY to buy what you buy because you like them, not because they're going to do thus-and-such a job in the tank. Honestly nothing eats hair algae, bubble or whatnot---there is a fix for it; but likewise, don't expect a sea hare or an urchin to take care of it; mithrax crabs won't eat enough bubble to matter. GFO is the way to go if you have an algae problem; but a good cleanup crew will prep the waste for the sandbed to digest: they're kind of the middle stage in converting fish poo into tiny, tiny particles that slip right down in the sandbed for bacteria to work on. So in general, they're good things to have. Just most people mistake what their job is and expect algae miracles. Really, their big job is poo. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

03/24/2014, 01:41 PM	#8
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	Don't know about fanworms: fish seem the bigger problem. Crabs may clamber over your corals, but their tiny feet and low mass just don't seem to bother the coral. A zoa might close temporarily, probably as much because of the crab's shadow as his feet. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

03/23/2014, 10:02 AM	#2
GT350pwns Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 600	Add fulgida worm to that list of stuff you don't really want to find lol Thanks again sk8er, great write up!

03/23/2014, 12:53 PM	#4
dkeller_nc Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Central NC Posts: 5,062	Add vermetid worms to the "bad" list. They don't directly kill desirable creatures, but they do steal food from them, and can reproduce in a tank to reach plague proportions. You can recognize them by the calcerous tube they build, and the sticky strands of mucous they produce that look like spider's webs. mcozad829 - Many authors state that all crabs are potentially omnivorous (blue-legged hermits are often listed as "herbivorous"). They can definitely assassinate snails for their shells, and if the tank is only sparsely fed, I've seen them attack and eat red/green star polyps and zoas.