Will my New Tank NOT Cycle if I only use Dry Rock (Marco Rock)? trying to avoid Cycle

[that Fish Guy]

So I am planning on upgrading my 10 Gallon Aquarium to a 30 Gallon Frag Tank (30 X 18 X 12).

People keep recommending Marco Rock.

It is Dry Rock though and not Live.

But you do avoid any Hitchhikers and it is Cheaper.

My Question is if I use Dry Marco Rock Only.

Will I avoid a Cycle (No Ammonia, Nitrite, or Nitrate)?

Also, how long will it take for the Dry Rock to become Live Rock?

Don't you have to add at least one piece of Live Rock to seed the Dry Rock and transfer all the good animals that are in Live Rock?

I mean I do not see how this stuff would Magically appear.

[nlgill13]

One thing you can do is cycle the rock in a separate container. You are right that you need to seed the rock for it to cycle and become live rock. This can be done by adding a piece of live rock into the container or adding a cup of live sand from an existing tank.

As far is avoiding the cycle...I don't think its possible but some might say otherwise. IMO it is best to plan for it.

[Bill Nye]

It is not possible to avoid a cycle. Do a google search on dry rock cycling and you will find there are a couple methods. One method is adding pure ammonia to a 2 ppm concentration until your tank can get rid of it in a day. The other is using a shrimp and letting it decay. Once it is done decaying your cycle is most likely over.

Not to be a jerk but this is the second thread you've made on this and all the answers are readily available searching this website or on google.

[clay12340]

You're talking about two different things. The cycle is simply bacteria colonizing the surface of the rock to a sufficient population to remove the added ammonia. This is going to happen when ammonia is introduced. If you don't do it up front, then it will happen when fish are added and start producing ammonia. If you wait for the fish to do it, then they will most likely die in the process as their waste builds up and poisons them. So don't do that, because it would be stupid and cruel.

The critters and algae on live rock have nothing to do with the cycle. They're just plants, algae, and animals that commonly live in marine environments. They don't magically appear. You have to put them there, either by adding the animals specifically or by adding something with them already on it such as live rock. They are often so tiny and ubiquitous that they show up accidentally when something else is added, so they are often referred to as hitch hikers. Unless you never add anything to the tank some of them will be almost unavoidable.

[that Fish Guy]

Originally Posted by clay12340

You're talking about two different things. The cycle is simply bacteria colonizing the surface of the rock to a sufficient population to remove the added ammonia. This is going to happen when ammonia is introduced. If you don't do it up front, then it will happen when fish are added and start producing ammonia. If you wait for the fish to do it, then they will most likely die in the process as their waste builds up and poisons them. So don't do that, because it would be stupid and cruel.

The critters and algae on live rock have nothing to do with the cycle. They're just plants, algae, and animals that commonly live in marine environments. They don't magically appear. You have to put them there, either by adding the animals specifically or by adding something with them already on it such as live rock. They are often so tiny and ubiquitous that they show up accidentally when something else is added, so they are often referred to as hitch hikers. Unless you never add anything to the tank some of them will be almost unavoidable.

It is a Frag Tank so there will be NO Fish.

Will it still Cycle?

[disc1]

If you use all dry rock you may not see any cycle and that would be a very bad thing. As soon as you put animals in there they'll make ammonia and the tank won't be able to handle it and then everything dies of ammonia poisoning.

You cannot run a tank without a working nitrogen cycle.

[that Fish Guy]

Originally Posted by disc1

If you use all dry rock you may not see any cycle and that would be a very bad thing. As soon as you put animals in there they'll make ammonia and the tank won't be able to handle it and then everything dies of ammonia poisoning.

You cannot run a tank without a working nitrogen cycle.

It will be a Frag Tank so NO Fish.

So I do not have to worry Right?

[disc1]

Originally Posted by that Fish Guy

It will be a Frag Tank so NO Fish.

So I do not have to worry Right?

No you still have to worry. Corals are animals too you know. They are in many cases even more sensitive than fish would be.

[Scorpius]

So all the freshwater tanks I have setup over the past 27 yrs never cycled because I didn't seed it. Yeah...... No matter how pristine and barren your dry rock is bacteria will colonize it in no time. It will take longer to get your cycle going using dry rock, but it will cycle.

Bacteria in a bottle will help things along, but why rush things. Add some fish food to your tank if you want to get things started faster to build up some ammonia.

[vipermaverickk]

Originally Posted by disc1

You cannot run a tank without a working nitrogen cycle.

I hate to hijack your thread, Fish Guy, but this statement concerns me.

disc, I was under the impression that under a few exceptions that you could run a tank safely without a cycle, as long as you prevent said cycle from starting via water changes and very close monitoring. I am attempting this method in my QT, and I'm using the information from sk8r's thread here. Please advise if this is incorrect, as I would need to take action pretty quickly.

[Spar]

Originally Posted by disc1

No you still have to worry. Corals are animals too you know. They are in many cases even more sensitive than fish would be.

+1.

you will feed your corals, with waste forming ammonia. there will be no bacteria to convert the ammonia. ammonia will hurt your inhabitants.

regardless, i am pretty sure some beneficial bacteria will hitchhike on the coral which would eventually cause a cycle... just as people are saying, it would likely take a LONG time, hurting your coral in the interim.

[Scorpius]

Originally Posted by vipermaverickk

I hate to hijack your thread, Fish Guy, but this statement concerns me.

disc, I was under the impression that under a few exceptions that you could run a tank safely without a cycle, as long as you prevent said cycle from starting via water changes and very close monitoring. I am attempting this method in my QT, and I'm using the information from sk8r's thread here. Please advise if this is incorrect, as I would need to take action pretty quickly.

Hospital tanks are fine not cycling, you just have to keep everything clean and test. Usually hospital tanks are setup in emergencies hence no time to cycle.

[disc1]

Originally Posted by vipermaverickk

I hate to hijack your thread, Fish Guy, but this statement concerns me.

disc, I was under the impression that under a few exceptions that you could run a tank safely without a cycle, as long as you prevent said cycle from starting via water changes and very close monitoring. I am attempting this method in my QT, and I'm using the information from sk8r's thread here. Please advise if this is incorrect, as I would need to take action pretty quickly.

In a QT you may be the cycle yourself by doing lots of water changes and keeping up with the Prime or Amquel to help with ammonia but it isn't optimal. That's what you do in an emergency but you'd never want to try to run a frag tank that way.

We also need to be clear about what the cycle is. We talk about it as though it is this thing that the tank goes through at the beginning and then it's over. Nothing could be further from the truth. What we observe at the startup of a new tank is the start of the nitrogen cycle. We see an ammonia spike and then nitrite because the cycle isn't running complete yet. Once the tank is up and running and has animals in it the nitrogen cycle is still running non-stop turning waste ammonia into nitrite and nitrite into nitrate. Without that process running in a tank waste ammonia will build up and poison everything.

[disc1]

Fish Guy:

I am assuming that what you want is not to have a tank with no nitrogen cycle, but to have a tank where you don't have to wait for the process of getting that going. SO you can put frags right in on day one. That can be done, but it involves lots of super premium live rock and it has to be kept alive through the whole process of getting it to the tank and getting the tank running. It happens, and it can be done, but it's definitely not going to happen with dry rock. Dry rock is going to give you the hardest and slowest of all possible cycle in scenarios.

[vipermaverickk]

Originally Posted by disc1

In a QT you may be the cycle yourself by doing lots of water changes and keeping up with the Prime or Amquel to help with ammonia but it isn't optimal. That's what you do in an emergency but you'd never want to try to run a frag tank that way.

We also need to be clear about what the cycle is. We talk about it as though it is this thing that the tank goes through at the beginning and then it's over. Nothing could be further from the truth. What we observe at the startup of a new tank is the start of the nitrogen cycle. We see an ammonia spike and then nitrite because the cycle isn't running complete yet. Once the tank is up and running and has animals in it the nitrogen cycle is still running non-stop turning waste ammonia into nitrite and nitrite into nitrate. Without that process running in a tank waste ammonia will build up and poison everything.

That makes sense, great information. Thank you for clearing that up for me.