what killed my fish and how to move forward?

hahahohol · 04/01/2014, 02:23 PM

Hi all! I'm pretty new to reef (2 months experience). Just wanted to ask some questions and get your feedback so i don't repeat my mistakes again.

I've got a 40 gal SeaClear sys II established tank on CL with about 20lb+ of rock 2 clowns (black/white & orange), 1 blue/green chromis and a blue tuxedo urchin.
Well, on Thursday I've got a scarlet skunk cleaner shrimp from PetCo (they're currently on sale for $18). I think i did a proper job acclimating my new shrimp, but the next day i noticed him laying on his back behind the coral frag and barely moving his antennas and legs. Couple of hours later i noticed two halves laying on the sand and my snails and crabs eating the dead body.
Q1. Any ideas what could of went wrong?
Just a side note... my black&white clown is very aggressive toward orange clown and chromis. Is it possible that he murdered innocent shrimp? Or evel hermits?

Unfortunately this is not all... on Sunday morning i noticed my chromis - dead, and my tuxedo urch losing his spines. Checked ammonia - .5-1 ppm.
I did an imidiate WC hoping to save urch but he lost almost all spines by monday, so after doing some research i decided to take him out and was surpised that he was hallow on the inside :/
Q2. Any thoughts what could of caused the death and or ammonia spike?

My ammonia is currently 0ppm, but i noticed that the nitrates are a little too hight-40ppm and i started having some brown discoloration on the sand. I'm planning to do another WC today.

PS: about one week before shrimp addition i added more rocks (~20lb cured), new aragonite sand and 3 tiny zoas and Kenya tree frag. ...maybe this will be some helpful info.

This what the tank looked like before thursday

image002.jpg

smtank · 04/01/2014, 04:34 PM

The tank is not sufficiently cycled as evidenced by a detectable ammonia. Your inverts and fish succumbed to the ammonia spike. Go slower.

danil · 04/01/2014, 04:44 PM

It's hard to say why since you've got established tank and all additions are 'cured' or reef ready. It could be due to 'chain of deaths'. Dead organisms release ammonia and causing more deaths releasing more ammonia. Don't rush things take it slow. You've done right with WC you might want to do another one.

ska d · 04/01/2014, 04:44 PM

Let's go back to a week ago. I'm assuming the tank was already cycled. The new rock you introduced was live or dry?. If it was live and came from the LFS then it probably bad some die off from transport. Its always a good idea to pick rock from a LFS that has been there awhile. One thing I do is give the rock a good whiff. If it smells funky then I leave it. Theres also a general rule that when you add rock to an already established tank (albeit 2 months isn't that established) you don't add more than 20% of the rock already in your tank. So in your case adding 4-5 lbs at a time is better. But there are exceptions, dry rock, or rock from a well established tank that is immediately placed into water so there is no die off.
As for the new sand you added. When the tank was set up did you use the old sand or just leave it bare. Old sand can have lots of nasty stuff built up and then released when put into a new system. Most people will use new sand when moving a tank or setting up a new system and seed the new sand with a cup or two of old sand. Never put new sand on top of already established sand. This will cause issues.
As for your aggressive clown, I to have seen a clown rip apart a shrimp but only after the shrimp wouldn't leave the area. My guess is you had a mini cycle from the addidtion of rock and possibly the new sand depending on how you did that. It doesn't appear you did anything wrong just to quickly.

hahahohol · 04/01/2014, 06:29 PM

I got a lot of dead rock from my coworker. It cycled in my 20 gallon container with some live sand and live rock. After the ammonia and nitrites got to 0 I let it sit for another week and then after rinsing cured rocks I added them into my tank.
I bought this tank two months ago but the other owner had it for one year.
I guess all of you are right - I went too fast.

And a quick update...i also changed my filter pad because it was wrong size. I wonder if i removed good bacteria with it
?

ska d · 04/01/2014, 08:15 PM

It was probably more to do with the rock, than the pad.

hahahohol · 04/01/2014, 08:33 PM

Well, can anyone suggest on what i should do? Wait? For how long? ...i really want a cleaner shrimp

hahahohol · 04/02/2014, 10:05 AM

Any thoughts? Anyone?

Cymonous · 04/02/2014, 10:22 AM

I would suggest to do another water change to get those nitrates down. All new fish should be quarantined.

What kind of water are you using? RODI, RO, DI?

hahahohol · 04/02/2014, 10:56 AM

I use filtered water...water purifier installed in the kitchen

sc50964 · 04/02/2014, 11:09 AM

Get some chemical filtration if you haven't done so. Either poly pad or purigen would work.

UMass14 · 04/02/2014, 11:24 AM

Give it some time for your tank to cycle again. It looks like your having a mini cycle with your new rock addition. Check your water parameters before you buy another shrimp. When everything looks good, take your time and drip acclimate your new shrimp.

Cymonous · 04/02/2014, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hahahohol

I use filtered water...water purifier installed in the kitchen

That water is made for drinking, not for saltwater tanks. I would suggest to get a RODI unit to make water for your saltwater tank.

hahahohol · 04/04/2014, 07:41 AM

Thank you all. I probably went too fast with additions and changes to my tank, but I learned my lesson.

I will wait at least another month before I add anything to my tank. (I still want a shrimp

)
Thanks again.

faithenfire · 04/04/2014, 07:52 AM

petco sales come and go. you'll be able to get the cleaner

established tanks still can cycle if you move them and you added more rock which can cause a cycle and then you added creatures to your tank and them dying pretty much all at once can cause a cycle.

welcome to a hobby where patience is key. it's very hard sometimes

Sk8r · 04/04/2014, 09:32 AM

Suggest a thorough reading of the sticky on how to start up, in the top of this forum. Water is not adequate for marine use and tank naturally produces lethal ammonia until it grows enough bacteria to handle the waste. You should have 4 weeks of cycle, then 4 weeks with invertebrates only before you add your first fish.

Sk8r · 04/04/2014, 09:33 AM

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...075632&page=11

snorvich · 04/04/2014, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sk8r

Suggest a thorough reading of the sticky on how to start up, in the top of this forum. Water is not adequate for marine use and tank naturally produces lethal ammonia until it grows enough bacteria to handle the waste. You should have 4 weeks of cycle, then 4 weeks with invertebrates only before you add your first fish.

This. Patience is definitely a virtue in this hobby. Nothing good ever happens quickly.

hahahohol · 04/05/2014, 02:32 PM

Hello again. I didn't want to get back to this topic again but i came home late last night and took a flash light to see if i would find anything new in my tank and to my surprise i did...after doing some research I found out that i have 3 clear/translucent "ball anemones" which reach about 1" in height. They look so cool (whoever designed them is awesome) but it's hard to see them because they are clear and hide under rocks. Are they harmless? Can I blame them for the loss of my chromis, shrimp, or urchin?

hahahohol · 04/05/2014, 03:54 PM

This is my ball anemone...

dante411x · 04/05/2014, 11:50 PM

Second the getting an ro/di unit for the tank. Also, are you dechlorinating the water that you get from the filter in the kitchen? Usually the filters in those are pretty bad since even if it goes bad, nothing too terrible will happen to you. However if that filter is letting some chlorine slip through, that could be why everything is dying off.
And yeah, too fast. Invest in some seachem prime. In emergencies, it will bind ammonia nitrite and nitrate for up to 48 hours, giving you some time to fix the problem/do a water change without things dying. Also Petco might have had copper in their tanks. They don't have the best filtration systems and it's common for water to go from one setup to another. That could have been a death sentence for the shrimp, leading to ammonia leading to other things dying.

hahahohol · 04/10/2014, 06:51 AM

Does anyone know if ball anemone is safe to keep?

hahahohol · 05/05/2014, 09:34 AM

Quick update... I decided to get another shrimp from PetCo while they're on sale (i know it's risky but I still went for it). Brought that little guy home last Friday, Temperature acclimated for 1 hr then drip acclimated for maybe 1.5 hours, than placed the container back in the tank for temp acclimation (just to make sure) and finally moved him into my tank.
The next day i put my hand in the tank to move fix a coral frag, he came out and started cleaning my hand. I thought that was awesome. My 2 clowns swim around him all the time but seems like they're cool with each other. Shrimp tried to get closer to them but they dont let him yet. He molted yesterday (proly due to salinity difference PetCo - 1.019, mine - 1.025), but he seems to be fine.

So i just wanted to thank everyone for your replies/suggestions.

Stolireef · 05/05/2014, 04:07 PM

Are you sure that's a ball anemone and not aptasia? It's really hard to tell from the picture but I'm guess that it's the latter. If so, then bad pest.

hahahohol · 05/05/2014, 06:25 PM

I've seen aiptasia before... It doesnt look like it.

04/01/2014, 02:23 PM	#1
hahahohol Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 29	what killed my fish and how to move forward? Hi all! I'm pretty new to reef (2 months experience). Just wanted to ask some questions and get your feedback so i don't repeat my mistakes again. I've got a 40 gal SeaClear sys II established tank on CL with about 20lb+ of rock 2 clowns (black/white & orange), 1 blue/green chromis and a blue tuxedo urchin. Well, on Thursday I've got a scarlet skunk cleaner shrimp from PetCo (they're currently on sale for $18). I think i did a proper job acclimating my new shrimp, but the next day i noticed him laying on his back behind the coral frag and barely moving his antennas and legs. Couple of hours later i noticed two halves laying on the sand and my snails and crabs eating the dead body. Q1. Any ideas what could of went wrong? Just a side note... my black&white clown is very aggressive toward orange clown and chromis. Is it possible that he murdered innocent shrimp? Or evel hermits? Unfortunately this is not all... on Sunday morning i noticed my chromis - dead, and my tuxedo urch losing his spines. Checked ammonia - .5-1 ppm. I did an imidiate WC hoping to save urch but he lost almost all spines by monday, so after doing some research i decided to take him out and was surpised that he was hallow on the inside :/ Q2. Any thoughts what could of caused the death and or ammonia spike? My ammonia is currently 0ppm, but i noticed that the nitrates are a little too hight-40ppm and i started having some brown discoloration on the sand. I'm planning to do another WC today. PS: about one week before shrimp addition i added more rocks (~20lb cured), new aragonite sand and 3 tiny zoas and Kenya tree frag. ...maybe this will be some helpful info. This what the tank looked like before thursday image002.jpg

04/02/2014, 10:22 AM	#9
Cymonous My Clown Attacks Me Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Akron, OH Posts: 2,105	I would suggest to do another water change to get those nitrates down. All new fish should be quarantined. What kind of water are you using? RODI, RO, DI? __________________ 100 Gallon Long with 20L sump 10 Gallon Office Tank Current Tank Info: 2 False Percula Clowns, One Spot Foxface, Diamond Watchman Goby, Yellow Tail Damsel, Engineer Goby

04/04/2014, 07:52 AM	#15
faithenfire it's all IMO Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 430	petco sales come and go. you'll be able to get the cleaner established tanks still can cycle if you move them and you added more rock which can cause a cycle and then you added creatures to your tank and them dying pretty much all at once can cause a cycle. welcome to a hobby where patience is key. it's very hard sometimes __________________ Looking for a 26 gallon bit of a underwater paradise. Current Tank Info: I am a caretaker of a 7ish year old 26 gal bowfront tank. I have watchman goby, a gold stripe neon goby, a rainford goby, pajama cardinal, possum wrasse and a clean up crew including a wall/rock climbing serpent star

04/04/2014, 09:32 AM	#16
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	Suggest a thorough reading of the sticky on how to start up, in the top of this forum. Water is not adequate for marine use and tank naturally produces lethal ammonia until it grows enough bacteria to handle the waste. You should have 4 weeks of cycle, then 4 weeks with invertebrates only before you add your first fish. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

04/04/2014, 09:33 AM	#17
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...075632&page=11 __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

04/01/2014, 04:34 PM	#2
smtank Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 1,204	The tank is not sufficiently cycled as evidenced by a detectable ammonia. Your inverts and fish succumbed to the ammonia spike. Go slower.

04/01/2014, 04:44 PM	#3
danil Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Concord, CA Posts: 935	It's hard to say why since you've got established tank and all additions are 'cured' or reef ready. It could be due to 'chain of deaths'. Dead organisms release ammonia and causing more deaths releasing more ammonia. Don't rush things take it slow. You've done right with WC you might want to do another one.

04/01/2014, 04:44 PM	#4
ska d Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: toronto Posts: 508	Let's go back to a week ago. I'm assuming the tank was already cycled. The new rock you introduced was live or dry?. If it was live and came from the LFS then it probably bad some die off from transport. Its always a good idea to pick rock from a LFS that has been there awhile. One thing I do is give the rock a good whiff. If it smells funky then I leave it. Theres also a general rule that when you add rock to an already established tank (albeit 2 months isn't that established) you don't add more than 20% of the rock already in your tank. So in your case adding 4-5 lbs at a time is better. But there are exceptions, dry rock, or rock from a well established tank that is immediately placed into water so there is no die off. As for the new sand you added. When the tank was set up did you use the old sand or just leave it bare. Old sand can have lots of nasty stuff built up and then released when put into a new system. Most people will use new sand when moving a tank or setting up a new system and seed the new sand with a cup or two of old sand. Never put new sand on top of already established sand. This will cause issues. As for your aggressive clown, I to have seen a clown rip apart a shrimp but only after the shrimp wouldn't leave the area. My guess is you had a mini cycle from the addidtion of rock and possibly the new sand depending on how you did that. It doesn't appear you did anything wrong just to quickly.

04/01/2014, 06:29 PM	#5
hahahohol Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 29	I got a lot of dead rock from my coworker. It cycled in my 20 gallon container with some live sand and live rock. After the ammonia and nitrites got to 0 I let it sit for another week and then after rinsing cured rocks I added them into my tank. I bought this tank two months ago but the other owner had it for one year. I guess all of you are right - I went too fast. And a quick update...i also changed my filter pad because it was wrong size. I wonder if i removed good bacteria with it ?

04/01/2014, 08:15 PM	#6
ska d Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: toronto Posts: 508	It was probably more to do with the rock, than the pad.

04/01/2014, 08:33 PM	#7
hahahohol Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 29	Well, can anyone suggest on what i should do? Wait? For how long? ...i really want a cleaner shrimp

04/02/2014, 10:05 AM	#8
hahahohol Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 29	Any thoughts? Anyone?

04/02/2014, 10:56 AM	#10
hahahohol Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 29	I use filtered water...water purifier installed in the kitchen

04/02/2014, 11:09 AM	#11
sc50964 Moved On Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 1,022	Get some chemical filtration if you haven't done so. Either poly pad or purigen would work.

04/02/2014, 11:24 AM	#12
UMass14 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: SO CAL Posts: 197	Give it some time for your tank to cycle again. It looks like your having a mini cycle with your new rock addition. Check your water parameters before you buy another shrimp. When everything looks good, take your time and drip acclimate your new shrimp.

04/04/2014, 07:41 AM	#14
hahahohol Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 29	Thank you all. I probably went too fast with additions and changes to my tank, but I learned my lesson. I will wait at least another month before I add anything to my tank. (I still want a shrimp ) Thanks again.

04/05/2014, 02:32 PM	#19
hahahohol Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 29	Hello again. I didn't want to get back to this topic again but i came home late last night and took a flash light to see if i would find anything new in my tank and to my surprise i did...after doing some research I found out that i have 3 clear/translucent "ball anemones" which reach about 1" in height. They look so cool (whoever designed them is awesome) but it's hard to see them because they are clear and hide under rocks. Are they harmless? Can I blame them for the loss of my chromis, shrimp, or urchin?

04/05/2014, 03:54 PM	#20
hahahohol Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 29	This is my ball anemone...

04/05/2014, 11:50 PM	#21
dante411x Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Alexandria, VA Posts: 75	Second the getting an ro/di unit for the tank. Also, are you dechlorinating the water that you get from the filter in the kitchen? Usually the filters in those are pretty bad since even if it goes bad, nothing too terrible will happen to you. However if that filter is letting some chlorine slip through, that could be why everything is dying off. And yeah, too fast. Invest in some seachem prime. In emergencies, it will bind ammonia nitrite and nitrate for up to 48 hours, giving you some time to fix the problem/do a water change without things dying. Also Petco might have had copper in their tanks. They don't have the best filtration systems and it's common for water to go from one setup to another. That could have been a death sentence for the shrimp, leading to ammonia leading to other things dying.

04/10/2014, 06:51 AM	#22
hahahohol Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 29	Does anyone know if ball anemone is safe to keep?

05/05/2014, 09:34 AM	#23
hahahohol Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 29	Quick update... I decided to get another shrimp from PetCo while they're on sale (i know it's risky but I still went for it). Brought that little guy home last Friday, Temperature acclimated for 1 hr then drip acclimated for maybe 1.5 hours, than placed the container back in the tank for temp acclimation (just to make sure) and finally moved him into my tank. The next day i put my hand in the tank to move fix a coral frag, he came out and started cleaning my hand. I thought that was awesome. My 2 clowns swim around him all the time but seems like they're cool with each other. Shrimp tried to get closer to them but they dont let him yet. He molted yesterday (proly due to salinity difference PetCo - 1.019, mine - 1.025), but he seems to be fine. So i just wanted to thank everyone for your replies/suggestions.

05/05/2014, 04:07 PM	#24
Stolireef Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Scottsdale AZ Posts: 3,180 Blog Entries: 5	Are you sure that's a ball anemone and not aptasia? It's really hard to tell from the picture but I'm guess that it's the latter. If so, then bad pest. __________________ I want to burn twice as bright and half as long. Oh, and a full tank crash is just an excuse for a new build. Current Tank Info: 125 Rimless Leemar, Apex, Trigger 30 Elite Sump, Vertex 180i Skimmer, 2 X Gen4 Radion XR30W, BM Doser, 2xMP40WES, 2xTunze 6095, Sicce Syncra 4.0.

05/05/2014, 06:25 PM	#25
hahahohol Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 29	I've seen aiptasia before... It doesnt look like it.