BRS Pukani or ReefSaver?

[firemountain]

I need to start buying dry rock for aquascaping. Since this is my first reef tank, I have no experience with the Pukani and the Reef Saver. I watched their YouTube videos and while they were informative, I am still torn since I have never worked with either of them.

I am looking for some input on what you guys like, and how it was to work with, as well how to go about curing/cycling it it while my 65g tank is on order.

Also...living in the North East, how is the BRS pricing vs. your average LFS.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Dom

[magnoliarichj]

Marco rocks I like

[pugmommie]

I have both. We got the Pukani when we set up our 120 gal and they sent up great big pieces of real nice rock. The Pukani is very pourous and seems lighter than the reef saver.
The reef saver I got for my 16 gal nuvo and again great rock! I have to agree with their video about how the reef saver pieces together very easy when aquascaping! For a 65 gal. maybe the reef saver, just because it's so easy to piece together. I used tank water and some rubble from the 120 to get a fast cycle on my nuvo. I gonna test often and do lots of water changes if needed!

[ReachTheSky]

I think Pukani is their most porous rock. It has a tendency of releasing a lot of phosphorous so it's often necessary to treat the rock first with Lanthanum Chloride before putting it in the reef tank.

I'm using Reef Saver and I'm happy with it. No phosphate issues and it's really nice and porous.

[GQuinn]

No experience with the Reef Saver rock, but the Pukani has great shapes and character. It just requires a little more work before using in a reef tank.

[garyinco]

I recently had to make the same decision. Marco was a choice I considered too. I ended going with the Pukani. Concerned about phosphate I acquired some of the Lanthanum Chloride mentioned a couple posts back.

I ordered 80 lbs, and the UPS labels said a gross weight of 90. I did not weigh to get a final dry net weight. Tank is 100+ gallons, 48x24x21.

I put the rock in 2 totes I had. Added some old spare Koralias and a heater to each tote. Filled with both new and water-changed (from an existing tank) saltwater. Some but not a lot of discoloration in the water. Totes were placed in a small room adjoining my garage. Never any odor I noticed. I have not changed out any of the saltwater, just topped off with fresh RO to compensate for evaporation. No room for skimmers in the totes. Below are my results to-date. Phosphate was with the Hanna Checker lo-range.

I've never been much of a reefscaper in the past. Alway ended up with one or more piles of rock. Looked nice but going to try and do better this time. I don't think I will use all that BRS delivered. The actual lanthanum chloride I had acquired via Amazon (local spa type stores had no idea what I was talking about) is labeled
SeaKlear
Phosphate Remover CR
For Pools.

I've never been able to get something resembling a table to look right. In any forum. The LC added is mL preceeded by "added". Hope below is understandable.
big tote (ppm) LC mL
03/20/14 0 added0
04/02/14 2.03 added20
04/13/14 - added25
04/26/14 0.08 added0

small tote (ppm) LC mL
03/20/14 0 added0
04/02/14 0.69 added15
04/13/14 - added15
04/26/14 0.15 added24

My tank has not even been delivered yet, so I'll continue to "cure" the rock for at least two more weeks. If I'm able to edit this post I will add more later.

[EllisJuan]

Marco

[firemountain]

Thanks everyone for the advice.

What's about running a Fluval 306 ( I don't have any power heads yet ) in a garbage can, and place some media like some Seachem PhosGuard and/or Chemipure in the filter and removing the sponges.

Any other recommendations on a media to put in the canister would be greatly appreciated.

Dom

[Deton8it]

I'm following this. I'm breaking my tank down right now because of a military move and I'm selling everything. Once I get situated in our new house I'm going to set up again. I too have been looking at dry rock and trying to make up my mind about what to buy.


John

[Mark426]

Marco Rocks and don't forget their mortar. It makes it so easy to have an amazing rockscape. I wasn't a believer in the mortar until I used it and now I all I can say is its a must have.

[firemountain]

I have heard with a new setup, it's best to lay the rock in first, then spread the sand around it. With long leech time of phosphates that the Pukani rock allegedly takes, I don't want to run the risk of prematurely putting the rock in, and then find out I have an unpredictable spike that causes a problem.

I really like that the Pukani is easily chiseled, and can render some really cool custom designs, esp. when I get my Dremmel going...making a cave like affects and overhangs

D

[Linkblaze]

I used the Pukani a couple of years back in my first build. I didn't treat it with the acid first, and just cycled in the tank. Did indeed have a massive algae bloom due to the phosphates. Wasn't a huge deal if you're willing to wait on adding things like SPS, as it eventually did clear the system.

I'm now thinking about doing another tank. Looking smaller at about 50g. This time I think I'm going to try the reef builders rock and here's why. The Pukani really is some of the best rock I've seen, but it is a bit hard to work with. You really need to be ready to saw some pieces up like they show in their videos, as the pieces are quite large and don't really stack together all that great. The other thing about the Pukani is that it seemed to be to be something of a flesh magnet! I mean just a light brush of the hands across this stuff while working in the tank would tend to open a gash in my hand.

If you do get it, I don't think you'll regret it. Order small, though. Something around 0.6 lbs per gallon is probably plenty unless you are going for the massive rock pile look.

[Chris Lakies]

What ever rock you choose be sure to treat with the acid bath!

[firemountain]

I definitely want to use the Pukani....I have read by so many members on how awesome the rock looks. Spoke BRS this morning, and they said that while a few and up to 6 months is the norm, it can realistically take up to a year before it totally leaches out the phosphate.

I think I will order at least half of my total rock with Pukani, and just play the waiting game with cycling it in a plastic tote in the basement and monitor it. I will buy some Reef Saver to start cycling the main tank. I am in no rush and feel that the caves and overhangs I can create with the Pukani is worth the wait.

What we need is a company to sell precured Pukani that has been cycled for 1+ years with a price point that wouldn't break the bank.

Thanks for the input guys....it has been a huge help

Dom

[NTP66]

Originally Posted by firemountain

I definitely want to use the Pukani....I have read by so many members on how awesome the rock looks. Spoke BRS this morning, and they said that while a few and up to 6 months is the norm, it can realistically take up to a year before it totally leaches out the phosphate.

I think I will order at least half of my total rock with Pukani, and just play the waiting game with cycling it in a plastic tote in the basement and monitor it. I will buy some Reef Saver to start cycling the main tank. I am in no rush and feel that the caves and overhangs I can create with the Pukani is worth the wait.

What we need is a company to sell precured Pukani that has been cycled for 1+ years with a price point that wouldn't break the bank.

Thanks for the input guys....it has been a huge help

Dom

Lanthanum Chloride (SeaKlear) can help greatly speed up the process in terms of PO4. If you do a search, there's a massive thread on the topic that's worth a read. It's a piece of cake to dose.

I have a combination of Pukani (bottom pieces) and Reefsaver (top pieces) rock in my tank and love them both. In hindsight, I wish I bought more Pukani because of how awesome it looks. That's not a slight on Reefsaver, either.

I always buy my big items like rock during BRS' Thanksgiving sale, because you can save a LOT of money... if you can wait until then.

[garyinco]

Originally Posted by firemountain

...What we need is a company to sell precured Pukani that has been cycled for 1+ years with a price point that wouldn't break the bank...

Sounds like a great business opportunity. Go for it, I'll be your first customer.

Speaking of opportunities... The qt bottle I bought of the SeaKlear has to be enough to do 100 tanks my size, if not more. If you'll pay the postage I'll send you 1/2 of my bottle and you'll get the opportunity to invest it into the rock curing business or you can pass on the 98% you have left when you get finished with your tank's rock. And I get the opportunity to not have to waste it by throwing it away. If you're interested PM me and we can work out the details.

[firemountain]

Originally Posted by NTP66

Lanthanum Chloride (SeaKlear) can help greatly speed up the process in terms of PO4. If you do a search, there's a massive thread on the topic that's worth a read. It's a piece of cake to dose.

I was originally going to do that, but I remember reading a post from someone who warned against using it. He had mentioned that while it did work as instructed, it rendered a problem with his tank down the road...I forgot specifically, but if can find that post, I will paste it in here. It was enough to scare me into not using the product.

Anyway, I think I may just painfully due it the old fashioned way with time lapsing.

Dom

[GQuinn]

Originally Posted by firemountain

I was originally going to do that, but I remember reading a post from someone who warned against using it. He had mentioned that while it did work as instructed, it rendered a problem with his tank down the road...I forgot specifically, but if can find that post, I will paste it in here. It was enough to scare me into not using the product.

Anyway, I think I may just painfully due it the old fashioned way with time lapsing.

Dom

If you do find this information please post it. I have used the SeaKlear in the past, fortunately I have had no problems. Some people actually dose a little of this in the tanks slowly thru filter socks to reduce phosphate.

[NTP66]

The only times I've seen it become an issue is where somebody doses it in their display tank via the filter sock, and wound up using too much, so I wouldn't mind reading up on another thread, either. I dosed the hell out of my Pukani while curing it and have not seen any negative effects more than one year later, fwiw.

But hey, there's absolutely nothing wrong with playing it safe in this hobby. Mistakes and problems can get expensive quickly.

[firemountain]

Hey guys....here is one of the posts I was referring to, in regards to curing the Pukani rock...

"While many have had great success using LC in a running tank I've heard as many stories about it precipitating outside the filter socks... IMHO, considering the amount I had to clean up I'd never risk it and again... No one really knows what the precipitate (very fine particulates) will do to your critters long term (there's also some speculation that after a time the precipitate breaks back down and releases the bound phosphates). My tubing, pump, heater and Brute were very white with precipitate when I finished my first batch. Can't imagine what a DT & Sump would look like. I actually had to throw out the tubing. The LC works really good though"

Hence it almost seems like the materials you use to cure the rock, should be separate from your DT. The last thing I would want is to go through a long term curing process, and find out that I didn't clean something like an interior pump/ powerhead enough that would cause me a problem don the road.

Call me cautious, but when I was running a salt tank over 25 years ago when I was 18. I made a rookie mistake and treated a disease in my DT. It killed my coral, and embedded itself in my gravel. It cause me to shut the tank down and take a break from the hobby. I am trying not to have a repeat since I am going to be setting up a reef which is more dynamic than just a FOWOLR.

Dom

[tkeracer619]

Just because its your first reef I would suggest the reef saver.

[NTP66]

They key, IMO, is to cure the rock outside of your DT. I cured mine in a 32g Brute, so I never had those issues. No "production" equipment was used. I had a separate heater and powerhead for the curing process.

[firemountain]

Originally Posted by tkeracer619

Just because its your first reef I would suggest the reef saver.

I was originally thinking along those lines and start the tank with Reefsaver. Additionally I will cure some Pukani separately in a backup tank in the basement. When it's done, it's done....however long it naturally takes.

Thanks.