Every Time I do a Water Change My Corals get Very Stressed Out - Is is from Palytoxin

that Fish Guy · 05/01/2014, 08:26 PM

Every Time I do a Water Change My Corals get Very Stressed Out.

The Tank has been doing great for Months then I got a Large Rock covered in Purple Death's.

Since then

My Hammers and FrogSpawn Close Up and have White/Gray Stuff on Top of them.
Zoanthids Close up for a Day or two.
Acans also get covered in this White/Gray Film and Spit stuff out.

For a while now I could not figure out what the problem was.

Then somebody said it was Palytoxin coming off the Purple Death's.

I have only heard of this affecting people though not Coral.

But it makes sense since that is the only thing new in the tank.

My Water is Perfect

Temperature 78 Degrees
Salinity 1.025
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
Alkalinity 10.2

Has anybody heard of this?

Can Palytoxin kill Coral?

Are Purple Death Paly's known for this too?

Should I just throw out the Rock of Purple Death's?

that Fish Guy · 05/01/2014, 09:20 PM

The Way I do the Water Change is that I use a Pitcher to Pour the Water back into the Tank.

I Pour it over one of my Power Heads to spread the water out more and not knock over any Coral.

The Rock is Directly below the Power Head.

So I think that a Rush of Water Hit the Purple Death's stressing them out and then having them excrete Palytoxin into the Tank stressing out the other Coral.

I did a Water Change yesterday and now pretty much everything is closed up except the Purple Death's which are all open. (I am guessing that they are immune to their own Palytoxin).

Has this happened to anyone else before or has anyone else heard of this?

I cannot think of any other reason why the Corals are so stressed.

And this only every happens the day of and day after my Weekly Water Change.

After that the Coral get gradually better but then the next week after the next water change they all get worse again.

This has been happening week after week for the last four weeks.

that Fish Guy · 05/01/2014, 09:22 PM

Here are some pics.

Please click on them to make them larger.

1. Hammer and FrogSpawn closed up
2. Acans closed up
3. Zoanthids mostly closed up
4. The Bad Purple Death Rock in question (All the Polyps are Open)
5. FrogSpawn with stuff coming out of its mouth

ws6kid · 05/01/2014, 09:28 PM

Run some carbon. I would check your ro water and make sure it's clear. Also be sure the water you are putting in is the same temp. Have you recently changed lights or bulbs? Check the tank for stray voltage. Can be a lot knowing so little about your setup mad husbandry.

GroktheCube · 05/01/2014, 09:51 PM

More likely it's the WC water. I'm almost positive palytoxin is harmless to inverts.

Temp, salinity, and alkalinity are all reasonably close in the WC water, right?

Your corals getting stressed every time you do a WC suggests that something in the WC water is likely stressing them.

that Fish Guy · 05/01/2014, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ws6kid

Run some carbon. I would check your ro water and make sure it's clear. Also be sure the water you are putting in is the same temp. Have you recently changed lights or bulbs? Check the tank for stray voltage. Can be a lot knowing so little about your setup mad husbandry.

RO water is good
Temperature is the same.
Salinity is the same.

I use the same water in four separate tanks every week and only this one has the problem so it is not the water change water.

that Fish Guy · 05/01/2014, 10:40 PM

I have heard of equipment leaching out stuff and killing Livestock so I opened my Power Heads up to clean them and saw all these Strange White Worms.

Are they Bad?

Cold they be killing the Coral?

I do not see them anywhere in the tank and none of my other 3 tanks have them.

They are just in the Power Heads (Especially the Power Head that I Pour the New Water Over).

keepswimming · 05/01/2014, 10:47 PM

What salt are you using? Have you checks mag, ca, and alk after your changes? they could be fluctuating a lot which is causing the corals to close up until you dose or they get use to the new parameters...

that Fish Guy · 05/01/2014, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keepswimming

What salt are you using? Have you checks mag, ca, and alk after your changes? they could be fluctuating a lot which is causing the corals to close up until you dose or they get use to the new parameters...

Instant Ocean Reef Crystals

All parameters are good.

I have 4 tanks that get weekly water changes and this is the only one that has this problem so it is not the water that I am adding.

that Fish Guy · 05/01/2014, 11:21 PM

Somebody mentioned Stray Voltage.

The other thing different when I change my water is I turn all my equipment off and then back on until the next water change.

I noticed both my Power Heads were making a loud grinding sound when I turned them back on.

My digital thermometer which is always saying 78.6 was saying that for a few seconds then saying 82.5 and going back and forth.

It stopped doing that when I turned off my Power Heads.

Is that what is killing the Coral?

I did not get shocked or anything.

Art13 · 05/02/2014, 06:28 AM

Stray voltage more than likely would affect the tank all the time, i've seen it, the coral really do look like they are going through shock therapy, they shrivel up and in lps it doesn't look normal at all, i knew just about instantly what it was. I keep my powerheads running through water changes to disperse the new water, and i use a small pump that takes about 10 minutes to empty a 5 gallon bucket into the tank, in a high flow area not near any coral so they don't get shocked.

ahmed_iAM · 05/02/2014, 07:01 AM

Run some chemipure for a week, do a water change then tell us if the same thing occurs. Also try smaller bi weekly water changes. I do ~5gallons twice a week for my 120. Maybe the change in concentration(Can,Mg,CO3, ect) is too much.

Crooked Reef · 05/02/2014, 07:46 AM

By chance you don't have a leather coral in the tank do you?

that Fish Guy · 05/02/2014, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crooked Reef

By chance you don't have a leather coral in the tank do you?

Just a Tyree Green Toadstool but that looks fine.

shifty51008 · 05/02/2014, 08:34 AM

do you really need to post this 3 times?

anyway the leather can release toxin's which could be causing your other corals to close up. are you running carbon?

leveldrummer · 05/02/2014, 08:53 AM

Just for fun, next time you do a water change, test the alk of the tank, and of the new water.

thegrun · 05/02/2014, 11:09 AM

How big of a water change are you making? If it is over 15% the change in water chemistry could be the problem.

snorvich · 05/02/2014, 12:16 PM

You might research allelopathy.

Metal Man 1221 · 05/02/2014, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thegrun

How big of a water change are you making? If it is over 15% the change in water chemistry could be the problem.

Too add to this. When I do larger changes, I have noticed it helps to add the new water more slowly. If you are just dumping a large volume in, it will almost certainly stress things.

ganjero · 05/02/2014, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by that Fish Guy

RO water is good
Temperature is the same.
Salinity is the same.

I use the same water in four separate tanks every week and only this one has the problem so it is not the water change water.

Are your tanks connected? Not every system is exactly the same, even if you use the same water and try to do the same on each one.
It might be the water change as I believe you do large water changes, it might be the leather coral, and/or a combination.

You need to do smaller water changes as suggested in your other posts, then find a routine that works for you and try to keep it constant for a few months and see how that works. Stability is essential, large water changes can make that difficult.

You post a lot trying to find the one answer to specific things but I think the biggest issue you are experiencing is the constant changes you do following all kind of advice you get not only in reefcentral but from every other forum you are posting the same questions.

My comment is made with a lot of respect and with all the intentions of helping you succeed.

that Fish Guy · 05/02/2014, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganjero

Are your tanks connected? Not every system is exactly the same, even if you use the same water and try to do the same on each one.
It might be the water change as I believe you do large water changes, it might be the leather coral, and/or a combination.

You need to do smaller water changes as suggested in your other posts, then find a routine that works for you and try to keep it constant for a few months and see how that works. Stability is essential, large water changes can make that difficult.

You post a lot trying to find the one answer to specific things but I think the biggest issue you are experiencing is the constant changes you do following all kind of advice you get not only in reefcentral but from every other forum you are posting the same questions.

My comment is made with a lot of respect and with all the intentions of helping you succeed.

All four Aquariums are separate and not connected.

Crooked Reef · 05/03/2014, 01:03 AM

You may be getting allelopathy from the toadstool or even some other coral that you have that you havent told us about. New water hitting one of the corals anywhere in the tank may be upsetting it and it may be releasing chemical warfare. Even if you have the exact same setup with the same corals in all 4 systems this one may have one that does not like getting hit with new water. Run carbon, chemipure, do smaller water changes more frequently and maybe add the water slower in a different section of the tank and see if you get any different results.

that Fish Guy · 05/03/2014, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crooked Reef

You may be getting allelopathy from the toadstool or even some other coral that you have that you havent told us about. New water hitting one of the corals anywhere in the tank may be upsetting it and it may be releasing chemical warfare. Even if you have the exact same setup with the same corals in all 4 systems this one may have one that does not like getting hit with new water. Run carbon, chemipure, do smaller water changes more frequently and maybe add the water slower in a different section of the tank and see if you get any different results.

I am going to try all of that next week for my weekly water change.

05/01/2014, 08:26 PM	#1
that Fish Guy Frag Swap Crusader! Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 2,538	Every Time I do a Water Change My Corals get Very Stressed Out - Is is from Palytoxin Every Time I do a Water Change My Corals get Very Stressed Out. The Tank has been doing great for Months then I got a Large Rock covered in Purple Death's. Since then My Hammers and FrogSpawn Close Up and have White/Gray Stuff on Top of them. Zoanthids Close up for a Day or two. Acans also get covered in this White/Gray Film and Spit stuff out. For a while now I could not figure out what the problem was. Then somebody said it was Palytoxin coming off the Purple Death's. I have only heard of this affecting people though not Coral. But it makes sense since that is the only thing new in the tank. My Water is Perfect Temperature 78 Degrees Salinity 1.025 Ammonia 0 Nitrite 0 Nitrate 0 Alkalinity 10.2 Has anybody heard of this? Can Palytoxin kill Coral? Are Purple Death Paly's known for this too? Should I just throw out the Rock of Purple Death's?

05/01/2014, 09:28 PM	#4
ws6kid Spongebob Squarepants Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Blacklick Posts: 203	Run some carbon. I would check your ro water and make sure it's clear. Also be sure the water you are putting in is the same temp. Have you recently changed lights or bulbs? Check the tank for stray voltage. Can be a lot knowing so little about your setup mad husbandry. __________________ 120g Marineland RR Mixed Reef w/ ATI Hybrid 36" LED/8 Bulb T5, GEO Beckett Skimmer, GEO Bio Pellet Reactor run by the Apex! "When life gives you lemons, you clone those lemons and make SUPER LEMONS

05/02/2014, 07:46 AM	#13
Crooked Reef Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 1,765	By chance you don't have a leather coral in the tank do you? __________________ “In wine there is wisdom; in beer there is freedom, in water there is bacteria.” - Benjamin Franklin Current Tank Info: 90 gallon reef. Biocube 29 lionfish tank. Mantis tank.

05/02/2014, 08:34 AM	#15
shifty51008 12-5 Chiefs record Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: NW Iowa Posts: 10,134	do you really need to post this 3 times? anyway the leather can release toxin's which could be causing your other corals to close up. are you running carbon? __________________ 75 gal. mixed DT, 100 gal. sump, 50 gal. fuge, Clownfish breeder

05/02/2014, 12:16 PM	#18
snorvich Team RC member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Outlander Posts: 40,953 Blog Entries: 46	You might research allelopathy. __________________ Warmest regards, ~Steve~

05/01/2014, 09:20 PM	#2
that Fish Guy Frag Swap Crusader! Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 2,538	The Way I do the Water Change is that I use a Pitcher to Pour the Water back into the Tank. I Pour it over one of my Power Heads to spread the water out more and not knock over any Coral. The Rock is Directly below the Power Head. So I think that a Rush of Water Hit the Purple Death's stressing them out and then having them excrete Palytoxin into the Tank stressing out the other Coral. I did a Water Change yesterday and now pretty much everything is closed up except the Purple Death's which are all open. (I am guessing that they are immune to their own Palytoxin). Has this happened to anyone else before or has anyone else heard of this? I cannot think of any other reason why the Corals are so stressed. And this only every happens the day of and day after my Weekly Water Change. After that the Coral get gradually better but then the next week after the next water change they all get worse again. This has been happening week after week for the last four weeks.

05/01/2014, 09:51 PM	#5
GroktheCube Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 2,063	More likely it's the WC water. I'm almost positive palytoxin is harmless to inverts. Temp, salinity, and alkalinity are all reasonably close in the WC water, right? Your corals getting stressed every time you do a WC suggests that something in the WC water is likely stressing them.

05/01/2014, 10:47 PM	#8
keepswimming Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 127	What salt are you using? Have you checks mag, ca, and alk after your changes? they could be fluctuating a lot which is causing the corals to close up until you dose or they get use to the new parameters...

05/01/2014, 11:21 PM	#10
that Fish Guy Frag Swap Crusader! Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 2,538	Somebody mentioned Stray Voltage. The other thing different when I change my water is I turn all my equipment off and then back on until the next water change. I noticed both my Power Heads were making a loud grinding sound when I turned them back on. My digital thermometer which is always saying 78.6 was saying that for a few seconds then saying 82.5 and going back and forth. It stopped doing that when I turned off my Power Heads. Is that what is killing the Coral? I did not get shocked or anything.

05/02/2014, 06:28 AM	#11
Art13 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: South Jersey Posts: 1,444	Stray voltage more than likely would affect the tank all the time, i've seen it, the coral really do look like they are going through shock therapy, they shrivel up and in lps it doesn't look normal at all, i knew just about instantly what it was. I keep my powerheads running through water changes to disperse the new water, and i use a small pump that takes about 10 minutes to empty a 5 gallon bucket into the tank, in a high flow area not near any coral so they don't get shocked.

05/02/2014, 07:01 AM	#12
ahmed_iAM Registered Member Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 419	Run some chemipure for a week, do a water change then tell us if the same thing occurs. Also try smaller bi weekly water changes. I do ~5gallons twice a week for my 120. Maybe the change in concentration(Can,Mg,CO3, ect) is too much.

05/02/2014, 08:53 AM	#16
leveldrummer Reefer Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Atlanta Posts: 1,831	Just for fun, next time you do a water change, test the alk of the tank, and of the new water.

05/02/2014, 11:09 AM	#17
thegrun Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Garden Grove, Ca Posts: 17,023	How big of a water change are you making? If it is over 15% the change in water chemistry could be the problem.

05/03/2014, 01:03 AM	#22
Crooked Reef Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 1,765	You may be getting allelopathy from the toadstool or even some other coral that you have that you havent told us about. New water hitting one of the corals anywhere in the tank may be upsetting it and it may be releasing chemical warfare. Even if you have the exact same setup with the same corals in all 4 systems this one may have one that does not like getting hit with new water. Run carbon, chemipure, do smaller water changes more frequently and maybe add the water slower in a different section of the tank and see if you get any different results. __________________ “In wine there is wisdom; in beer there is freedom, in water there is bacteria.” - Benjamin Franklin Current Tank Info: 90 gallon reef. Biocube 29 lionfish tank. Mantis tank.