Sump return question

theaquareef · 05/02/2014, 10:57 AM

While thinking in my head about drilling my solana, I came up with a question I cant find an answer to. My question is - in the event of a power outage, would my return from my sump act as a drain pouring more water to the sump? Thanks!

myram · 05/02/2014, 10:59 AM

It will.
Some people put a check valve on their return lines.

JackandJill · 05/02/2014, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by myram

It will.
Some people put a check valve on their return lines.

Check valves, unfortunately, are notorious for failing in a saltwater system.

It would be wise to drill a hole close on the return pipe just below the surface of the water in the display tank. This will allow the water to drain only to that hole and then by sucking in air stop the siphon and allow only a minimal amount of water to drain into the sump.

thegrun · 05/02/2014, 11:06 AM

I would not trust a check valve, they will eventually fail to close and you risk a flood. Make the return pump section of your sump large enough to handle all the drain down water. Drilling a small hole in the side of the return nozzle will introduce air to the return line and reduce the amount of drain down water when the pump is off, but in the end you need to account for all the water.

PirateToast · 05/02/2014, 11:07 AM

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00A7Z...pi=SL500_SY115

power boat jim · 05/02/2014, 11:08 AM

Check valves have their own set of problems. If the returns are only an small distance below the surface the water, it will back flow (syphon) only until the returns start to suck air and that will break the syphon. Just make sure you have room in the sump for an inch or two of tank water. If the return lines are deeper in the tank the tank will drain to that level. You can drill a hole just below the water surface in the return line to act as a syphon break. These do clog over time so the holes need to be cleaned on occassion.

The check valves are not usually a good idea since they generally will fail even if the smallest amount of dirt or debris is present in the pipe.

theaquareef · 05/02/2014, 11:12 AM

Thanks guys, I kind of assumed so but wasn't sure if when it caught air it would continue. I'm trying to get everything right, its my first time with a sump. Ive heard check valves are risky so i wont be going that route. return near the top of the tank is fine with me. Ill have to make my baffles a little shorter in my sump to accommodate the extra water then make sure my calculations are correct. My only problem is I am not 100% sure where my water line is going to sit but I'm going to assume 1/2" to 1" above the teeth of the overflow.

MondoBongo · 05/02/2014, 11:37 AM

my return line does back-siphon.

all i did was drill a couple siphon breaks in the return, just below where the water level should be when the tank is running. i have a split return from a Y fitting, so i drilled 2x 1/4" holes in each of the outlets from the Y. that way, when a pesky snail decides to situate himself over one of the holes, which they have, there is a backup.

Fallling · 05/02/2014, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theaquareef

Thanks guys, I kind of assumed so but wasn't sure if when it caught air it would continue. I'm trying to get everything right, its my first time with a sump. Ive heard check valves are risky so i wont be going that route. return near the top of the tank is fine with me. Ill have to make my baffles a little shorter in my sump to accommodate the extra water then make sure my calculations are correct. My only problem is I am not 100% sure where my water line is going to sit but I'm going to assume 1/2" to 1" above the teeth of the overflow.

I have my returns about even with the teeth of my overflow (maybe slightly below). I use locline with the flat nozzle and keep it just at the surface of the water for plenty of surface agitation. When the power goes out, the water won't drain below the opening of the nozzle, and I make sure there is plenty of room in the sump to handle the water. That's the safest way... check valves and holes in the return can all lead to failure.

theaquareef · 05/02/2014, 11:56 AM

I'm thinking of just using a 3/4" 45° elbow for the return out of the 3/4 bulkhead instead of using loc line. Think it might work?

05/02/2014, 10:57 AM	#1
theaquareef Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 578	Sump return question While thinking in my head about drilling my solana, I came up with a question I cant find an answer to. My question is - in the event of a power outage, would my return from my sump act as a drain pouring more water to the sump? Thanks!

05/02/2014, 11:37 AM	#8
MondoBongo Obligate Feeder Obsessed Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 4,061	my return line does back-siphon. all i did was drill a couple siphon breaks in the return, just below where the water level should be when the tank is running. i have a split return from a Y fitting, so i drilled 2x 1/4" holes in each of the outlets from the Y. that way, when a pesky snail decides to situate himself over one of the holes, which they have, there is a backup. __________________ [Citation Needed] "You don't use science to show that you're right, you use science to become right" - xkcd Current Tank Info: A rectangular shaped money pit.

05/02/2014, 10:59 AM	#2
myram #347, 19 years Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Biddeford, ME Posts: 1,714	It will. Some people put a check valve on their return lines.

05/02/2014, 11:06 AM	#4
thegrun Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Garden Grove, Ca Posts: 17,023	I would not trust a check valve, they will eventually fail to close and you risk a flood. Make the return pump section of your sump large enough to handle all the drain down water. Drilling a small hole in the side of the return nozzle will introduce air to the return line and reduce the amount of drain down water when the pump is off, but in the end you need to account for all the water.

05/02/2014, 11:07 AM	#5
PirateToast Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 537	http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00A7Z...pi=SL500_SY115

05/02/2014, 11:08 AM	#6
power boat jim Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Wisconsin, The big peninsula Posts: 2,100	Check valves have their own set of problems. If the returns are only an small distance below the surface the water, it will back flow (syphon) only until the returns start to suck air and that will break the syphon. Just make sure you have room in the sump for an inch or two of tank water. If the return lines are deeper in the tank the tank will drain to that level. You can drill a hole just below the water surface in the return line to act as a syphon break. These do clog over time so the holes need to be cleaned on occassion. The check valves are not usually a good idea since they generally will fail even if the smallest amount of dirt or debris is present in the pipe.

05/02/2014, 11:12 AM	#7
theaquareef Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 578	Thanks guys, I kind of assumed so but wasn't sure if when it caught air it would continue. I'm trying to get everything right, its my first time with a sump. Ive heard check valves are risky so i wont be going that route. return near the top of the tank is fine with me. Ill have to make my baffles a little shorter in my sump to accommodate the extra water then make sure my calculations are correct. My only problem is I am not 100% sure where my water line is going to sit but I'm going to assume 1/2" to 1" above the teeth of the overflow.

05/02/2014, 11:56 AM	#10
theaquareef Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 578	I'm thinking of just using a 3/4" 45° elbow for the return out of the 3/4 bulkhead instead of using loc line. Think it might work?