A noob learning the hard way. First post. LONG READ sorry

[Lucky Lefty]

Hello all,

First let me say thank you as I've been aggressively reading through these forums for the past 3 months learning as much as possible about my new found love/hobby.

Ok, so to start, any newbies like myself may learn a thing or two from my mistakes so far. 3 weeks ago, after spending quite some time building my tank stand and prepping my tank with a beautiful new background, matching gloss black acrylic overflow box covers, with black silicone of course to match, I was finally ready to fill my tank.

So here we are, 3 weeks ago, trip to the LFS to make my first substantial purchase. 2 bags of aragonite live sand to seed my already thoroughly washed dried sand that I cleaned over a period of a week, 2 new filter socks, 26 lbs of gorgeous cured Fiji live rock and of course, 165 gallons of saltwater.

Get home, pour in my live sand, wife and I design the live rock, and we begin pumping in water. This is when the fun gets turned up a notch. As the level of the water gets near the edge of the overflow boxes, I hear a large splash/bubble sound from the other side of the tank. It almost sounded like something jumped in the water. Me, my wife and my friend all said "what the hell was that?!". My incredible logic lead me to say "I don't know, maybe it was air trapped under the sand?" . Roughly 5 minutes later, when I couldn't seem to realize why the water was dribbling over the edge of the overflow, I saw complete horror on my friends face as he glanced at the ground near the tank. He didn't even say a word and just ran for the pump. Still dumbfounded, I looked down to see a fine bead of water curling at the base of my tank stand on the carpet of my living room. Upon opening the cabinet door I shut earlier to walk around and check for leaks upon filling, I found my sump box overflowing and about 3 inches of water in the bottom of my stand. JOY. Then it hit me, the air bubble wasn't in the sand idiot, it was your damn return lines dipped into the tank with loc line siphoning all the water in the tank into my sump.

After about 35 gallons of water spilled onto my carpet, and complete panic set in, I drained the tank to just above the sand, put my live rock in a styrofoam box with a pump and heater and had my awesome brother and friends arrive in what seemed like minutes, and carry my tank and stand together about 15' across the room to a tiled floor. Next morning I took the wife to Lowes, she picked out some wood grain ceramic tile, and we began installing it that night and worked the next 3 nights working after work to finish it. That Friday I mopped down the tile like a madman to clean the grout off, had some great friends help carry the tank all the way back across the room and I was back where I started and have learned an immense amount of why and what I did wrong and what I need to do to prevent it from happening again.

So this is where I am, and I hope some one out there makes it this far into reading to help me realize if this is going right.

The rock sat in the box for 5 days and I know almost anything on it pretty much died. I also think the old heater i stuck in there got too warm the last day or 2 in the box and may have had the rock at 90 degrees or even higher. The sand was very foamy the first 2 or 3 days as I stirred it up 2 or 3 times a day, but on the 4th and 5th day it barely made any foam if at all.

Filled up the tank with the water I pulled out originally, which by the way in had to use every last drop of saltwater I had to have enough water to cycle through. Started testing 2 days after cycle and my levels have been pretty much identical since. Ph at 8.0 , ammonia at .25 , nitrite at .1 and no nitrates. Water is at 1.025 salinity and the tank has been 81 degrees since it warmed up around the end of day 2.

Today I found a sponge we noticed that had grown on the rock since I had to put it in the box has nearly disintegrated. I found an empty clam shell in the rock I'm assuming died while in the box, and there are about 4 coral skeletons (I'm guessing) on the rock.

I'm all about being patient, but is there anything I should be doing to get the tank going, or is it already going? Is now the time to start feeding the tank?

I guess I'll end there for now. Congratulations, you made it.

Thanks, greatly appreciated.

[MinnFish]

Wow, what a start. Welcome to RC. Glad you made it this far. Mistakes happens quite often in this hobby. So, you have join an exclusive club. We except new member daily. Some of us are repeated members (me included). LOL.
Now, let's get you started on the left foot. Your tank is currently cycling. Ammonia and nitrites are indicators. You will probably have a slow and long cycle. Due to your amount of live rock. You are way under weight in the rock department. Live rock is the most important thing in your tank. It's the anchor to your entire filtration system. So, may I suggest you build your live rock up some. The general rule or recommendation is about a pound per volume of water. I have a few questions for you. Are you running a skimmer? Any live rock in the sump? 1 or 2 heater? What type of tank are you planning?
Yes, you can ghost feed the tank to build up your ammonia. Which will jump start your cycle. But, like I mention. You don't have enough surface to sustain a strong bioload. You will need to bump up the live rock. Happy reefing.

[m0nkie]

drop a frozen shrimp in there to get the cycle going!

or use a bottle of Dr. Tim's Live Nitrifying Bacteria to get it started. A lot of people will recommend not using Dr. Tim's and let it naturally cycle with a frozen shrimp. Choice is totally yours.

check out dry rocks at BRS or Marco rocks. You can buy very good looking ones

[Lucky Lefty]

Thanks for the replies! The start was a roller coaster. Extremely excited for months, to instantly devastated at launch. But I've moved on and learned from it and really love my tank.

I do want to add more live rock. I was so tempted to buy more the other day, but the guy at the LFS kinda talked me out of it and said I'd be starting my cycle pretty much all over, which isn't terrible consider I'm early into it. The $5/lb also kinda deterred me, otherwise i woulda have bought 100lbs at least that day.

I was originally going to buy a TON of pukani dry rock that they had for $1/lb. then we started talking curing and muriatic acid and yada yada yada, then I saw the "fancy" Fiji rock and had to have it, especially once I saw all the growth and stuff living in it, that I eventually killed in the styrofoam tomb it sat in for 5 days.

I want a FOWLR rank, and my lineup is pretty much as follows, in order, 2 clowns, anenome, porky puffer, flame hawkfish, HUGE MAYBE on a snowflake eel (kinda too cliche for me and I'm leaning towards no on this one), and ultimately my grail, clown triggerfish. Maybe a blue and yellow chocolate chip star if I ever come across one, and definitely a cross eyes squirrel fish if I ever see one of them again.

I'm definitely not out of the woods yet. My lack of experience and knowledge told me to use threaded fittings on my bulkheads and ball valves, which are dripping ever so slightly. Also, I had no knowledge of the utmost importance of sump size, and built my stand to fit the sump that was given to me with my tank. A 15 gallon sump box. That is now plumbed in my stand. And can't come out now that's kits plumbed.

SO, I've decided, to attempt to not destroy the beautiful trim work I slaved over while making my stand, and carefully cut out the side panel of my stand and turn it into a door so I can take out my shoe box sized sump box and slide in the biggest one that will fit. Today I got a 38 gallon tank, but I'd like to find a 45 gallon that's hopefully 36" long and 16" wide as opposed to this 38 that's only 12" wide.

Right now, my overflows are draining into a filter sock and pumping right back to to the DT. No rock or sand in the sump, just the sock.

I really don't mind and actually prefer the patient, natural route. I really don't want any additives or dosing or anything. I just want to know I'm doing my part in helping the tank along the way.

I've been thinking about the shrimp thing. Just don't want to push the process and seem hasty. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to wait 8 to 12 weeks, but I figure by doing the right thing it should be the average 2 to 4 weeks.

I've recently read and been told that the 1:1 rock to water ratio is a bit much than what you actually need. Seeing how small the 26 lbs looks in the tank I'd certainly like more, but I don't want my tank to look like a mountain of rock with some fish squeezing through. I'm figuring 75 - 100lbs. What do you think?

I'll try and attach a couple photos of my setup.

[Lucky Lefty]

Trying to upload some photos here.

[Lucky Lefty]

I forgot to answer these questions you had.

I'm running 2 new eheim jager heaters, each rated for 159 gallons, both in sump set to 81.

I have a protein skimmer. It's a.. Don't laugh, Berlin skimmer. It's not running now. I was so excited to see foam I ran it for like an hour when I started cycling, unplugged it to move the wire and when I plugged it back in the pump didn't start haha :/ at that point, after everything, I just laughed.

[tallball158]

Best advice I can give is, don't get discouraged. I cannot even begin to tell you how many fish and critters I have killed on accident. I have also destroyed some floor and equipment in the process! ( anyone that tells you that they haven't is either a lier or has never actually owned a tank! Lol) It sounds like you have a good sense of humor, and that is a good thing in this hobby. Almost all of my learning has come from mistakes over the years. Oh and also be prepared to be broke for the rest of your life! If you stay in the hobby, your whole world will revolve around this stuff, and you will always be buying something! Lol

[Nina51]

i do like how you can find the humor in your carpet soaking up 35 gallons of water.

you will need lots more live rock. you can get base rock (that isn't "live") and add it to what you have and it will eventually seed and become live rock.

if you decide to go the shrimp route, make sure you get a RAW shrimp, not the already-cooked stuff. and yeah, the guy in the meat department will look at you like you have 2 heads when you tell him you just want ONE raw shrimp, not a whole bag. just tell him you have an imaginary friend that is really, reeeeally tiny.

[GT350pwns]

Sucks you had to start that way, but glad to see you climbed right back on the horse!

+1 to marco rocks. When I upgrade, they'll be my first stop for rock. All I've bought from them is about 5 lbs of dry rock rubble and was still VERY impressed lol

[igot2gats]

Great looking stand! Love it.

Also, glad you didn't give up. There will be other times, not quite like this, but other trying times throughout your reefing time. You're already battle tested

Anyways, like others have said, get yourself some more rock for that big of a tank. Besides, the more rock you have, the more coral you can put in there...

We're always here to help.

[formsix]

Yikes, you definitely had an adventure to start out with!!

As others have said, you do need more rock in there, and you'll also need to add a source of ammonia in the near future. If you don't, the good bacteria that you're trying to cultivate will start to die. Basically you want to be feeding the bacteria just a little more ammonia (actual ammonia or ghost feeding) than they can handle so they stay happy and reproduce quickly. You don't want to overwhelm the tank with ammonia, but you also don't want to starve the bacteria. But you do need more rock so the bacteria have more places to colonize.

Regarding the leaky fittings, I would suggest taking care of that ASAP. Drain your tank a little -- and make sure your loc line is pointing up!! -- and get to work on the fittings. Did you use teflon tape with the threaded fittings? If not, that's a good first step. If you did, and they still leak, the best solution we found is to silicone the pieces together using aquarium-safe silicone (we had that issue -- the threaded fittings went all the way together and were still a little loose).

I have heard that the slow salt drip over time will plug up any small leaks in the pipes, but at this stage of the game I wouldn't chance it.

Also, you want an RO/DI unit. Really. Don't think too hard about it, just go buy one. For a tank of any decent size (let's say above 10g), it will pay for itself over and over, and you won't hate life as you lug buckets of saltwater from the store to the car to the house. You'll need lots of extra water on hand in case of emergencies once you get more live critters in the tank, and even just for top off and water changes, the water goes fast.

[Cymonous]

In my experience, you don't really have to follow the pound per gallon rule as long as you have a good decent amount that is very porous. Porous rock has more surface area for bacteria to colonize on. I think I have maybe 50-55lbs of rock in my tank, but it is very porous.

[G_Sanab922]

Think we've all had our fair share of "fails" in this hobby lol.
You definitely need more rock btw. But don't pay $5/lb for live base rock! I went recently to a highly reputable LFS and they had rock from 2.99-5.99(specialty LR). You can find LR easily for about $2-3. Also check the forum, but first you need 50 post and 90 days as a member. Patience is a virtue...

[Texas Paul]

Welcome to the Hobby Lefty!!

I guarantee tons of us have had more than our share of water on the floor..... I have ruined hard wood floors...Those of us who live in glass houses throw no rocks...

If you need the loc-lines down in the water for water movement, consider drilling an anti-siphon hole somewhere in your tank return line near the surface above the water level. When the power goes out it can stop the siphoning process of sucking water down to the sump, as it will pull air into the stream and stop the siphon. A check valve in the tank return line will also work, but I worry over time they might foul, so I do not use them.

+1 on all the advice for your rock. It will be fine once you get it cycling again. If you go with dry rock, I have only used Marco dry rock, and it was very clean and no phosphate leaching. It's currently cycling in a large tub and doing well.

It's always exciting to get started, but try and be patient! Good Luck!

[ThisGuy12]

I truly feel sorry for you starting off that way, but good news, it gets better! Trust me. Once the tank is finally running and those first fish get introduced the sense of accomplishment will make you feel like a million bucks!

Plus as the tank grows you can enjoy it through every stage of the process.

I would also second (or third or fourth) the notion of using a raw shrimp to help the cycle process, don't use Dr. Tim's, I've read mixed things about that, but the tried and true method is always using a raw shrimp.

The good news is that with the noticeable levels of ammonia and nitrites it means your tank is cycling.

Keep your chin up Welcome.

[Lucky Lefty]

Thanks for all of the advice! In regards to the live rock, its very porous, almost like giant rock pine cones would be the best analogy. I was hoping that the greater surface area would make up for the low weight, but I do know and definitely want more rock.
If my tank were to finish cycling or at least close to it, let's say 2 weeks from now, could I just buy more love rock like this (already cured) and put it straight into the tank? Or does that create a cycling process? Or is their an acclimation process similar to fish? Maybe I should search that.

The dreaded, or threaded fittings.... I used Teflon everywhere, and my OCD make me triple check that I was wrapping it correctly. The only thing that gets me is that I'm pretty sure every threaded connection is dripping, eeeever so slightly, but dripping which makes me believe it's installer error somewhere. I'm going to convert everything to slip fittings just for piece of mind in the long run. That's happening as soon as I'm ready to install my new sump box.

Speaking of sump box. Not sure if I mentioned it, but I have a ridiculously small sump box now. It's 15 gallons. I just picked up a 38 gallon tank, 12" wide and 36" long. I was hoping to find something 36 x 15 or 16.. Around 45 gallons at least. I'm just so restricted on space with my stand, I can't fit anything wider than 16 or longer than 36". I'm not sure if the 38 gallon I got is even aquarium worthy (is there such a thing quality wise)? I know it's much better than the 15, but is this good enough for a long term sump for my 150. I don't want to do a refugium or anything, just basic sock filter and protein skimmer filtration.

Cymonous, someone was telling me that as well, however with 50-55 pounds in a 65 gallon is such a greater ratio than my 26lbs in a 150. Do you think 80 to 100lbs would be sufficient? I just don't want a mountain in a fish tank, I'm going for a balanced look between water, live rock, and fish.

I appreciate the words of encouragement. Everyday we were installing that tile I felt...I don't know, terrible. Felt incredibly terrible for destroying our house. I asked everyone if I was doing the right thing. If I was crazy for even thinking about continuing. And honestly, for a moment, or a day or 5, I felt like I made a mistake. That feeling of What did I get myself into. But great words of encouragement and support from my wife, brother and friends made me push on and get back on that horse and on day 2, I came home from petsmart with all kinds of cleaning tools and just carefully cleaned up the whole tank. As soon as the sponge hit the glass, it was like instant gratification. That moment literally changed the whole week from hell to heaven. So to anyone out there who may come across this in a similar situation, push on! Don't give up! Trust me!

As for an RODI system, that was one of my very first purchases a couple months back and holy crap that the greatest thing I've done yet. I definitely did not anticipate the amount of evaporation there would be and how small my sump really was. When I woke up on day 2 or 3 I couldn't believe how low the water level was in the sump. The leaks barely covered the bottom of a bucket so it wasn't them. I had to displace water with jugs in the sump box while I went to work and setup the rodi system into one of my drums. Which brings us to our next lesson on RODI systems, keep in mind the backwash valves operating position, because if the system is making noise and you leave it on backwash for about 8 hours while your at work, you might come home to about a handful of water.

I keep writing short stories, sorry about that. But thanks for reading.

[Lucky Lefty]

Photo of my live rock just to give you an idea of how porous it is.

[Lucky Lefty]

I just thought of a question that may be very important to cycling. I read a post last night about not be able to stand the noise of their tank, someone explained to turn back there return pump to match the flow of the drain to eliminate all the suction and chatter noises.

Of course I ran downstairs and started twisting ball valves and BOOYAH my left side drain stopped sounding like a predator hunting Arnold Schwarzenegger. Awesome indeed. But when I was done adjusting I noticed the returns were nowhere near producing the output the were at full steam.

So my question, will this restriction for noise reduction mess up my cycle? My little giant pump is a 3-mdq-sc rated for 700gph. With no other pumps or powerheads in the tank, should I just let this thing go full blast? I plan on adding Ecotech mp40s eventually, as I don't want wires or cords in the tank, but right now my bank account said no so that's on hold.

[acabgd]

It might well be porous but it's still way too little for such a large tank. And I would certainly add more rock now, while cycling, and not later.

[Lucky Lefty]

Ok, I'm going to try to get more rock ASAP. I probably have to wait until at least next weekend.

[novadan67]

Here is what I'd recommend if you don't want a lot of rock in your tank. Buy a large sump, it sounds like a 40 breeder might be perfect (36x18x17) and you can get them at Petco for $40 during their $1 per gallon sale. You can put a LOT of rock in the 40b... it just has to be in your system, not necessarily in your display tank. This way, you can buy cheap dry rock (like from reefcleaners, etc) and it will not look out of place with the rock you have. I'd still add more to your display, but having a lot in your sump means you'll need less in the DT.

One thing I noticed is that you said you want it to be a FOWLR tank, but then also mention an anemone. This is a bit of a contradiction... the anemone will require very bright lights and water quality of a reef tank... Is it worth all the extra expense and maintenance for the anemone? You might as well add coral too since your tank would be able to support it! Just something to consider.

[Lucky Lefty]

Novadan, thanks a million for that! Great idea for the 40b I'm going to try and find one. Hopefully the 17" is the width because I don't think I can fit 18 wide. I have a 12" wide 38 gallon I just grabbed. Didn't leak test it yet tho.

The anemone was for the clowns really. I know they don't need them, but who can resist watching clowns rolling around getting all high off anemone stings... Little junkies. I have a 6'coralife light fixture with 4 96watt PC's and 3 250 watt mh bulbs, as well as 4 tiny leds. Old school energy and heat wise I know, but this was a $1000 light new and I couldn't pass it up knowing its a reef quality light.

The main reason I don't want other corals or inverts is because I really really really want a clown triggerfish and I know they are unpredictable and known as not reef safe.

I was wondering if anyone can tell me if restricting my returns for noise reduction (also my only means of flow right now) is damaging my cycle. If necessary I'll put em on full blast and deal with the noise until I can afford some mp40s.

Thanks

[Lucky Lefty]

Any input on my flow situation? Thanks guys

[PatW]

Well you were off to a rocky start but you recovered. Good save. By the way, I think being OCD is a definite plus in this hobby.

[Lucky Lefty]

Originally Posted by PatW

Well you were off to a rocky start but you recovered. Good save. By the way, I think being OCD is a definite plus in this hobby.

Thanks.. I have selective OCD. as in I over tighten and quadruple check random things and usually end up going just beyond the point of perfect... And by perfect I mean as in stopping exactly on the edge of the cliff, as opposed to sliding right over it and burning.