predator FOWLR filtration help!

R6REEFER · 05/14/2014, 02:11 PM

Hey guys,
Looking for a bit of insight on filtration for my first tank. Its gonna be a big bioload so I want to make sure its done right the first time. 55gal with 28lbs LR and 45lbs LS. Here's what I plan on adding:

Volitan lion
Coral grouper
Niger trigger
Dogface puffer
Coral cat shark

I know, way to much for that size but I'm getting them all babies and the tank size will progress as they do. That's aside from what I'm asking. Right now I have an emperor 400 power filter. Looking to add a reef octopus bh2000 and possibly swap the emperor for a canister w/ a UV steralizer in it. Would this be an ideal choice for that load? Any opinions or personal experience? Also is there any other accessories I should possibly be looking into? Also forgot to add I will be throwing in a flow pump for circulation and to keep all the organics afloat and within the octopus' reach.

Sgt Jonny Cat · 05/14/2014, 02:18 PM

I'm a rookie here, but I wouldnt bother with the canister, it will only add to your nitrates. I have a 55 gallon tank and right now I'm running approx 50 lbs of live rock 45-50 lbs of live sand and a Eshopps HOB skimmer. I got rid of my canister as I found it becomes a nitrate factory. Check out Sk8r's post about filters on this forum it's very helpful. I would also get some sort of refugium for macro algae to export nutrients. From what I have learned, the skimmer should be the main filtration, and good flow. Check out Jebao wave makers, good product for the money.

sponger0 · 05/14/2014, 02:19 PM

First step, get a 500 gallon curved tank. No 90 degree angles. Then filtration can be considered.

R6REEFER · 05/14/2014, 02:38 PM

Thanks Jonny cat, I'll look into those articles. So your running just the skimmer or you have some sort of other filtration device as well? I've looked into refugiums very briefly beings as I dont want to get into anything other than hang ons until I get a bigger tank/stand. What's the purpose of exporting nutrients? Probably a dumb question but I'm super new to this stuff as well

sponger0 · 05/14/2014, 02:39 PM

Then you should get a bigger thank then go from there

Sgt Jonny Cat · 05/14/2014, 02:47 PM

Yea if youre going to have those big fish, get a bigger tank, Yes all I run for now is the skimmer, live rock and sand. The live rock is the main biologoical filtration I will be getting a CPR Aquafuge hang on back refugium in the very near future. In the refugium you can add live sand and macro algae. The algae will eat the nutrients from your tank (nitrates and phosphates) so you will have less in your display tank. Like I said, I am still learning as I go but the canister is a waste...I'm already looking to sell mine LOL.

The skimmer is very important though and I am happy with my Eshopps PSK 100H hang on back.

I've learned a ton on this forum and on you tube...good luck...

R6REEFER · 05/14/2014, 02:50 PM

Thanks man, great info. I'm looking into that stuff this evening.

m0nkie · 05/14/2014, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R6REEFER

Thanks Jonny cat, I'll look into those articles. So your running just the skimmer or you have some sort of other filtration device as well? I've looked into refugiums very briefly beings as I dont want to get into anything other than hang ons until I get a bigger tank/stand. What's the purpose of exporting nutrients? Probably a dumb question but I'm super new to this stuff as well

Skimmer + live rocks + sump/refugium is good enough. Adding a filter means weekly cleaning or possible nitrate spike.

You export nutrients to keep a tank clean. Mostly Nitrate (NO3) and Phosphate (PO4). It's like why do we use a toilet..

with your concept of thinking.. you are going to be buying several tanks, and several sets of equipment... $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!!! go big or go home! :P OR buy equipment that will work for your future tank. This is why we usually get larger Sump/Skimmers/Pumps in the beginning. We will switch tanks, but keep everything else

my tank is 100gallon, my skimmer will run a 200 gal no problem.. my LEDs are good enough, i got enough powerhead flow.. If i want to switch to a 200 gallon, all I need is a new tank and some more rocks

sponger0 · 05/14/2014, 02:55 PM

I cannot express get a bigger tank in this case. Niormally its putting a tang in a 75 that needs a 180.

But you want to put a fish that needs a 500 gallon tank full grown. Its one thing to go from a 75 to a 180. Another to go from a 55 to 500 gallon tank.

Also sharks need a tank that has no angles. The can seriously hurt themselves. So the tank needs to be curved on the end.

You really should reconsider what you want. Or get a 500 gallon tank. When youre ready to do that, Ill be willing to discuss filtration.

m0nkie · 05/14/2014, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sponger0

I cannot express get a bigger tank in this case. Niormally its putting a tang in a 75 that needs a 180.

But you want to put a fish that needs a 500 gallon tank full grown. Its one thing to go from a 75 to a 180. Another to go from a 55 to 500 gallon tank.

Also sharks need a tank that has no angles. The can seriously hurt themselves. So the tank needs to be curved on the end.

You really should reconsider what you want. Or get a 500 gallon tank. When youre ready to do that, Ill be willing to discuss filtration.

+1

Also, read this sub forum about pred/aggro fish. Specially the first 2 sticky threads..

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/fo...play.php?f=139

I have a 475 gallon round tank if you are ready for that jump

R6REEFER · 05/14/2014, 03:09 PM

Ha, yea I got plenty of money for upgrades and what not but a 500 gal in an apartment?! Dont think so. Think I'll replace the coral cat for an eel or something. I was under the impression I can just give the shark back when it gets to big or let it go (I live in the gulf). So with that minute adjustment

now lets hear your opinion. Thanks monkey btw, sounds like the direction I will be going, I hear sumps can be a real pain especially gravity fed which is why I wanted to avoid that specific addition until the bigger tank comes along, with experience comes knowledge though, another reason I chose this hobby, there's always room to grow.

R6REEFER · 05/14/2014, 03:11 PM

Also I guess the peckerheads at the LFS didnt get the memo about no angles in the tank 😎

whosurcaddie · 05/14/2014, 03:24 PM

Its not just the shark. That grouper gets huge. The trigger needs a larger tank as well. The grouper requires a minimum of 500 gallons.. that's MINIMUM.

m0nkie · 05/14/2014, 03:27 PM

sump and the whole plumbing system definitely took some research and time to plan. Specially if you have no prior plumbing knowledge. (I literally went to home depot to ask how to connect PVC) But the initial cost is about the same and it will be easier to maintain. And more reliable! With a filter, you must clean it every week or two. A nitrate spike from dirty filter will wipe your tank.

I aim to do the least amount of work as possible once things set up. It's already enough work testing and changing water weekly.. no need to add switching filter pads on top of that. There are many successful tanks with filter systems. To me it's just too much work

you can start off with a Durso standpipe for your plumbing needs. It's very easy to build. A Herbie style if you want quieter and safer plumbing. Bean Animal for complete quiet/safe plumbing.

as for UV sterilization. Many people think it's not useful. opinions are very mixed on it. But if you want one, get a big one. For example the EMPEROR AQUATICS SMART UV LITE 40 WATT. You should keep the flow inside the UV slower than factory recommended speed to give the water maximum sterilization. I don't think a canister UV will do much

Cu455 · 05/14/2014, 04:00 PM

I would keep the canister for filtration. Put a sponge on the intake and clean it often. Especially after you feed. Live rocks are great but to support that bioload you will have to fill your tank with rocks and it will leave no room for you fish. The more rock you add the less water volume you have. A HOB overflow and a sump will help add some water volume and keep your filtration.

It's a good idea to pass on the coral catshark. You said you wanted to get a young shark. I have three newly hatched ones now and they are a pain to feed. Keeping them in a tank with those tank mates and lots of rock work will be tough. Catsharks can live in tanks with corners.

You could keep the emperor and get a second filter like a ac110 and fill it with rock rubble or ceramic rings. I have a couple of aquaions HOB filters I use for my chemi pure and mechanical filtration. Use a different media the the filter floss the emperor comes with. If you look online there are mods to turn the Ac110 into a refugium.

sponger0 · 05/14/2014, 04:09 PM

The grouper and shark are the big tank requirements.

The other you could get away with 200 gallon and still have options for other aggressive fish. Normally Im not so big on the fish size and tank...but we are tanking about some really large ones.

mcozad829 · 05/14/2014, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R6REEFER

Ha, yea I got plenty of money for upgrades and what not but a 500 gal in an apartment?! Dont think so. Think I'll replace the coral cat for an eel or something. I was under the impression I can just give the shark back when it gets to big or let it go (I live in the gulf). So with that minute adjustment

now lets hear your opinion.

Save this quote... if you are still in this hobby in 2 years look back and read it. You will say to yourself "what the hell was I thinking"

Letting a fish go is illegal in most (if not all) Gulf states. Plus it is just outright wrong. That is why the lion fish is such an issue in Florida as an invasive species. The list goes on and on of all of the invasive species we have in this country that were once someones pet. And for what its worth, you probably won't be able to find a suitable home for a full grown shark.

sponger0 · 05/14/2014, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcozad829

Save this quote... if you are still in this hobby in 2 years look back and read it. You will say to yourself "what the hell was I thinking"

Letting a fish go is illegal in most (if not all) Gulf states. Plus it is just outright wrong. That is why the lion fish is such an issue in Florida as an invasive species. The list goes on and on of all of the invasive species we have in this country that were once someones pet. And for what its worth, you probably won't be able to find a suitable home for a full grown shark.

This is true. Lionfish are also a problem off the coast of North Carolina. Some will pay you for catching them in Florida I believe. They are so abundant that they are now becoming a food source for people but destroying the reefs.

R6REEFER · 05/14/2014, 05:51 PM

Thanks guys, I'm looking into all of these suggestions as we speak. And as far as the letting the shark go thing that was more of a joke, it probably wouldn't survive 9 times out of ten. If I do stick with the emperor and bh2000 what type of media should I look into? All I'm finding is those stupid carbon filled standard ones...

05/14/2014, 02:11 PM	#1
R6REEFER Moved On Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 28	predator FOWLR filtration help! Hey guys, Looking for a bit of insight on filtration for my first tank. Its gonna be a big bioload so I want to make sure its done right the first time. 55gal with 28lbs LR and 45lbs LS. Here's what I plan on adding: Volitan lion Coral grouper Niger trigger Dogface puffer Coral cat shark I know, way to much for that size but I'm getting them all babies and the tank size will progress as they do. That's aside from what I'm asking. Right now I have an emperor 400 power filter. Looking to add a reef octopus bh2000 and possibly swap the emperor for a canister w/ a UV steralizer in it. Would this be an ideal choice for that load? Any opinions or personal experience? Also is there any other accessories I should possibly be looking into? Also forgot to add I will be throwing in a flow pump for circulation and to keep all the organics afloat and within the octopus' reach.

05/14/2014, 02:18 PM	#2
Sgt Jonny Cat Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: North of Boston Ma. Posts: 685	I'm a rookie here, but I wouldnt bother with the canister, it will only add to your nitrates. I have a 55 gallon tank and right now I'm running approx 50 lbs of live rock 45-50 lbs of live sand and a Eshopps HOB skimmer. I got rid of my canister as I found it becomes a nitrate factory. Check out Sk8r's post about filters on this forum it's very helpful. I would also get some sort of refugium for macro algae to export nutrients. From what I have learned, the skimmer should be the main filtration, and good flow. Check out Jebao wave makers, good product for the money. __________________ In the process of putting together a 150 gallon mixed reef. Ill keep you posted. Current Tank Info: 55 Gallon

05/14/2014, 02:47 PM	#6
Sgt Jonny Cat Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: North of Boston Ma. Posts: 685	Yea if youre going to have those big fish, get a bigger tank, Yes all I run for now is the skimmer, live rock and sand. The live rock is the main biologoical filtration I will be getting a CPR Aquafuge hang on back refugium in the very near future. In the refugium you can add live sand and macro algae. The algae will eat the nutrients from your tank (nitrates and phosphates) so you will have less in your display tank. Like I said, I am still learning as I go but the canister is a waste...I'm already looking to sell mine LOL. The skimmer is very important though and I am happy with my Eshopps PSK 100H hang on back. I've learned a ton on this forum and on you tube...good luck... __________________ In the process of putting together a 150 gallon mixed reef. Ill keep you posted. Current Tank Info: 55 Gallon

05/14/2014, 03:27 PM	#14
m0nkie Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: LA Posts: 6,264	sump and the whole plumbing system definitely took some research and time to plan. Specially if you have no prior plumbing knowledge. (I literally went to home depot to ask how to connect PVC) But the initial cost is about the same and it will be easier to maintain. And more reliable! With a filter, you must clean it every week or two. A nitrate spike from dirty filter will wipe your tank. I aim to do the least amount of work as possible once things set up. It's already enough work testing and changing water weekly.. no need to add switching filter pads on top of that. There are many successful tanks with filter systems. To me it's just too much work you can start off with a Durso standpipe for your plumbing needs. It's very easy to build. A Herbie style if you want quieter and safer plumbing. Bean Animal for complete quiet/safe plumbing. as for UV sterilization. Many people think it's not useful. opinions are very mixed on it. But if you want one, get a big one. For example the EMPEROR AQUATICS SMART UV LITE 40 WATT. You should keep the flow inside the UV slower than factory recommended speed to give the water maximum sterilization. I don't think a canister UV will do much __________________ 560gal in the making Last edited by m0nkie; 05/14/2014 at 03:35 PM.

05/14/2014, 02:19 PM	#3
sponger0 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Virginia Beach Posts: 6,659	First step, get a 500 gallon curved tank. No 90 degree angles. Then filtration can be considered.

05/14/2014, 02:38 PM	#4
R6REEFER Moved On Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 28	Thanks Jonny cat, I'll look into those articles. So your running just the skimmer or you have some sort of other filtration device as well? I've looked into refugiums very briefly beings as I dont want to get into anything other than hang ons until I get a bigger tank/stand. What's the purpose of exporting nutrients? Probably a dumb question but I'm super new to this stuff as well

05/14/2014, 02:39 PM	#5
sponger0 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Virginia Beach Posts: 6,659	Then you should get a bigger thank then go from there

05/14/2014, 02:50 PM	#7
R6REEFER Moved On Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 28	Thanks man, great info. I'm looking into that stuff this evening.

05/14/2014, 02:55 PM	#9
sponger0 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Virginia Beach Posts: 6,659	I cannot express get a bigger tank in this case. Niormally its putting a tang in a 75 that needs a 180. But you want to put a fish that needs a 500 gallon tank full grown. Its one thing to go from a 75 to a 180. Another to go from a 55 to 500 gallon tank. Also sharks need a tank that has no angles. The can seriously hurt themselves. So the tank needs to be curved on the end. You really should reconsider what you want. Or get a 500 gallon tank. When youre ready to do that, Ill be willing to discuss filtration.

05/14/2014, 03:09 PM	#11
R6REEFER Moved On Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 28	Ha, yea I got plenty of money for upgrades and what not but a 500 gal in an apartment?! Dont think so. Think I'll replace the coral cat for an eel or something. I was under the impression I can just give the shark back when it gets to big or let it go (I live in the gulf). So with that minute adjustment now lets hear your opinion. Thanks monkey btw, sounds like the direction I will be going, I hear sumps can be a real pain especially gravity fed which is why I wanted to avoid that specific addition until the bigger tank comes along, with experience comes knowledge though, another reason I chose this hobby, there's always room to grow.

05/14/2014, 03:11 PM	#12
R6REEFER Moved On Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 28	Also I guess the peckerheads at the LFS didnt get the memo about no angles in the tank 😎

05/14/2014, 03:24 PM	#13
whosurcaddie Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 2,354	Its not just the shark. That grouper gets huge. The trigger needs a larger tank as well. The grouper requires a minimum of 500 gallons.. that's MINIMUM.

05/14/2014, 04:00 PM	#15
Cu455 Moved On Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 672	I would keep the canister for filtration. Put a sponge on the intake and clean it often. Especially after you feed. Live rocks are great but to support that bioload you will have to fill your tank with rocks and it will leave no room for you fish. The more rock you add the less water volume you have. A HOB overflow and a sump will help add some water volume and keep your filtration. It's a good idea to pass on the coral catshark. You said you wanted to get a young shark. I have three newly hatched ones now and they are a pain to feed. Keeping them in a tank with those tank mates and lots of rock work will be tough. Catsharks can live in tanks with corners. You could keep the emperor and get a second filter like a ac110 and fill it with rock rubble or ceramic rings. I have a couple of aquaions HOB filters I use for my chemi pure and mechanical filtration. Use a different media the the filter floss the emperor comes with. If you look online there are mods to turn the Ac110 into a refugium.

05/14/2014, 04:09 PM	#16
sponger0 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Virginia Beach Posts: 6,659	The grouper and shark are the big tank requirements. The other you could get away with 200 gallon and still have options for other aggressive fish. Normally Im not so big on the fish size and tank...but we are tanking about some really large ones.

05/14/2014, 05:51 PM	#19
R6REEFER Moved On Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 28	Thanks guys, I'm looking into all of these suggestions as we speak. And as far as the letting the shark go thing that was more of a joke, it probably wouldn't survive 9 times out of ten. If I do stick with the emperor and bh2000 what type of media should I look into? All I'm finding is those stupid carbon filled standard ones...