BTA Propagation Tank

[Ad Meliora]

Over the next year or so I really want to set up a BTA propagation tank.

My motivation has been increasing with the rising prices for some of our BTA morphs here in Australia. Rose Bubble Tips retail around $350 on the low end - $550 for decent size ones. I've only seen anything equivalent to the Sunfire BTA over there in America a couple of times, which got bought with a private bid of ~$1000 I think. Crazy.

So if you guys were to set one up, how would you do it? What's the perfect set up? I'm thinking wide and shallow, with extra precautions for anything to do with pumps and wavemakers. Probably sumpless, though a closed loop system with a sump could be good. Ideally the costs/overheads would have to be as low as possible in order to make profit out of it, especially seeming that it would take a while to build up stock levels to a point where you would want to start selling them. I've been reading as much as possible, and found a few videos like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwb92qDQABs

Also, I need to get some experience with that actual propagation. I've seen debates over cutting vs encouraging splitting with feeding and slight system shocks. I've read a lot into the cutting side of things (one clean cut, etc) but I haven't actually done it yet. Going to practice with some cheaper green morphs before I get into anything rarer.

So any ideas, advice, or experience to share? How would you (or did you) do it? Even if it's from propagation experience from other animals, corals or fish etc. I understand actually making a profit from these things after all the overheads is always the challenge. I pretty much permanently lurk over here in these forums (the Australian ones can be dead quiet) and I have a lot of respect for the combined experience and knowledge here.

Thanks
Ad Meliora

[simo2004]

Can't really help but I am tagging along for the ride

[enchelycore808]

I would probably do the wide shallow with no rock or substrate in the prop tank. Easier to get them off to frag. Can feed them everyday/other day to get hem to split or cut them. I wouldn't trust the stress split to much (as if cutting them in half isn't stressful lol). In a system I would want, I would put a sump just so I could keep my equipment out of the prop tank. If your cutting them, maybe get a skimmer as well. Good luck! Those prices are crazy! I heard ricordea are crazy expensive there too.

[Ad Meliora]

Originally Posted by enchelycore808

I would probably do the wide shallow with no rock or substrate in the prop tank. Easier to get them off to frag. Can feed them everyday/other day to get hem to split or cut them. I wouldn't trust the stress split to much (as if cutting them in half isn't stressful lol). In a system I would want, I would put a sump just so I could keep my equipment out of the prop tank. If your cutting them, maybe get a skimmer as well. Good luck! Those prices are crazy! I heard ricordea are crazy expensive there too.

A lot is, even though we have high supply all our nicest stuff goes straight over to you guys. On top of that, you can't import any living invertebrates to Australia so we don't get cheap anything from all our Asian neighbours. I assume we have stuff that's a good price but I'm not sure. I'm mainly into anemones, and purple gigs go well into the thousands. I'm in the wrong country

I think I'd prefer sump as well, though I could always partition part of the tank off, doesn't have to be pretty. Cutting seems to be a good way to go, but when you have 20+ nems I wonder how much stress that would put on the system.

Thanks for the reply!

[Anemone12]

Holy shi* 350$!!!!!! I usually pay 100$ for a good BTA.

[Ad Meliora]

Originally Posted by Anemone12

Holy shi* 350$!!!!!! I usually pay 100$ for a good BTA.

I know, I decided to consciously not go into any aquarium stores last time I was over there for fear that I'd buy something and try smuggle it back haa

[Anemone12]

I'm assuming you flew over to us? How long of a flight was it?

[lavi1000]

Look at this


http://www.aqua.org.il/forums/showthread.php?t=326084


I start cut then in two

They like it

[m0nkie]

Originally Posted by Anemone12

I'm assuming you flew over to us? How long of a flight was it?

Traveling to asia/australia is about 12-14hrs... pita..

[Anemone12]

Can't you bring it on the plane with you? I'm pretty sure you can but customs would have to check.

[Ad Meliora]

Originally Posted by Anemone12

I'm assuming you flew over to us? How long of a flight was it?

Originally Posted by m0nkie

Traveling to asia/australia is about 12-14hrs... pita..

12-14 hours if you can afford it maybe. I had 2 stopovers, total journey time from US hotel to Australian Airport ended up being 30 hours
I've never felt that insane.

Originally Posted by Anemone12

Can't you bring it on the plane with you? I'm pretty sure you can but customs would have to check.

If you declared any invertebrate they would destroy it and if you didn't and they found out, Australia has very intense customs laws.

The maximum penalty for illegal importing or exporting wildlife
under the Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation
Act 1999 is A$100,000 and/or 10 years jail.

It's a shame you can't bring something in under strict quarantine in order to establish propagation here. Saying all this things definitely get smuggled in occasionally, I've seen Ricordia Florida around for instance.

Originally Posted by lavi1000

Look at this


http://www.aqua.org.il/forums/showthread.php?t=326084


I start cut then in two

They like it

Thanks!

[lavi1000]

It is risk job
Look what bta do to me yes'

http://youtu.be/6rntiPY-XXI

[Anemone12]

Wow. If you weight about 2 years btas will be evrywhere.

[raythepilot]

I've been bifurcating BTA for a few years. It is pretty easy just cut them in half. I have never been able to get a nem to split on its own.
While I've split them into smaller pieces, the recovery is longer for smaller pieces. It takes about a week for the animal to recover and after about 6 weeks it is ready for (in my case) give away.
The secret is being able to keep healthy anemone in the first place. I keep them in 10 gal tanks doing 2 x 25% water change each week.
I guess if you want to do this commercially you probably want to keep them in the smallest tank possible. I've kept them in a 1.5 liter holding tank for a few weeks doing daily 100% water changes. I keep the holding tank in a bigger tank for thermal stability.

If you PM me I'll give you more details.

[BonsaiNut]

I agree with Ray. There are few saltwater inverts as robust as a BTA IF YOU HAVE A GOOD ENVIRONMENT IN THE FIRST PLACE. I have had a BTA go through a pump before - not a powerhead but a PUMP - and become anemone soup. One of the larger pieces actually survived and grew to become an adult. (I would not recommend this procedure, however, since I started with one anemone and ended up with one).

If you wanted to go commercial, I would recommend three isolated setups. (1) Anemones about to be cut - heavy feed and trying to get them super healthy (2) recovery tank(s) after being cut. Possible antibiotic use and anemones releasing stress chemicals (3) Recovery tank(s) after the first week or two when the anemone is on the rebound.

Note this advice is ONLY for BTAs!!! The only other asexual clown anemone is H. magnifica, and they are MUCH more fickle about being cut. Any other clown anemone that you cut will be the death of the anemone - 99.9% of the time!

[northernreefe]

I fed mine heavily, (once a day at minimum). Ended up with six in a few months. Had to back off the feeding nobody else needed one.

[todddye]

What did you feed them on a daily basis? How big were they when they split?

[Ad Meliora]

Originally Posted by raythepilot

I've been bifurcating BTA for a few years. It is pretty easy just cut them in half. I have never been able to get a nem to split on its own.
While I've split them into smaller pieces, the recovery is longer for smaller pieces. It takes about a week for the animal to recover and after about 6 weeks it is ready for (in my case) give away.
The secret is being able to keep healthy anemone in the first place. I keep them in 10 gal tanks doing 2 x 25% water change each week.
I guess if you want to do this commercially you probably want to keep them in the smallest tank possible. I've kept them in a 1.5 liter holding tank for a few weeks doing daily 100% water changes. I keep the holding tank in a bigger tank for thermal stability.

If you PM me I'll give you more details.

So you prefer each individual BTA in its own small tank?
Will do! Thanks Ray

Originally Posted by BonsaiNut

I agree with Ray. There are few saltwater inverts as robust as a BTA IF YOU HAVE A GOOD ENVIRONMENT IN THE FIRST PLACE. I have had a BTA go through a pump before - not a powerhead but a PUMP - and become anemone soup. One of the larger pieces actually survived and grew to become an adult. (I would not recommend this procedure, however, since I started with one anemone and ended up with one).

If you wanted to go commercial, I would recommend three isolated setups. (1) Anemones about to be cut - heavy feed and trying to get them super healthy (2) recovery tank(s) after being cut. Possible antibiotic use and anemones releasing stress chemicals (3) Recovery tank(s) after the first week or two when the anemone is on the rebound.

Note this advice is ONLY for BTAs!!! The only other asexual clown anemone is H. magnifica, and they are MUCH more fickle about being cut. Any other clown anemone that you cut will be the death of the anemone - 99.9% of the time!

Antibiotic use is something I haven't seen much use of over here. I know Americans had to really get on the ball with it because of the long and poor shipping conditions for gigs. I like the idea of separate systems, though I'd like to not have to duplicate hardware when possible. Do you think the Grow tank and the Recovery tank could share water

Originally Posted by northernreefe

I fed mine heavily, (once a day at minimum). Ended up with six in a few months. Had to back off the feeding nobody else needed one.

Originally Posted by todddye

What did you feed them on a daily basis? How big were they when they split?

+1, what did you feed them? Pretty impressive

Thanks for all the replies everyone. Keep them coming

[lavi1000]

Originally Posted by northernreefe

I fed mine heavily, (once a day at minimum). Ended up with six in a few months. Had to back off the feeding nobody else needed one.

What did you feed them ?

What do u mean few mounths ? 3,4,5,7,12 ?

[Anemone12]

The best thing I would think to do is have one big tank.

[Eric Boerner]

Originally Posted by Ad Meliora

My motivation has been increasing with the rising prices for some of our BTA morphs here in Australia. Rose Bubble Tips retail around $350 on the low end - $550 for decent size ones. I've only seen anything equivalent to the Sunfire BTA over there in America a couple of times, which got bought with a private bid of ~$1000 I think. Crazy.

Holy crapatolly... Those are 1990 prices for RBTA's here in the states. How about starting an import business instead of propagating? I was having a hard time selling my clones for $25, and they were some of the most beautiful RBTA's available on the west coast (I am biased, but still).

[Eric Boerner]

Originally Posted by Anemone12

The best thing I would think to do is have one big tank.

That is how I was cloning when I was in full swing. I was up to 38 brood mothers in a 120. I force fed propagation twice daily to get monthly "healthy" splits. I was cut cloning for awhile before that, but did not get the same turn around as feed cloning.

However, that said, I basically saturated the local market because I was so efficient, I didn't have anyone else to sell them to. I'd sure be willing to transship them to Australia for $200 a pop though.

[Ad Meliora]

Originally Posted by Eric Boerner

Holy crapatolly... Those are 1990 prices for RBTA's here in the states. How about starting an import business instead of propagating? I was having a hard time selling my clones for $25, and they were some of the most beautiful RBTA's available on the west coast (I am biased, but still).

I wish but as I said before, you can't import. Would have to be a smuggling business I wonder if I had 10 posted, what the chance of one coming through would be

What's the reasoning behind one big tank? Purely just cost efficiency?

[raythepilot]

<>

I was looking at the distribution of E. quadricolor and I think they are native to western Australia. You should check that out.
I don't think you can smuggle something into a country that is already there?

[Eric Boerner]

Originally Posted by Ad Meliora

What's the reasoning behind one big tank? Purely just cost efficiency?

Both cost and stress relief for the new splits. Forced splits take around 2-3 months to recover for both clones. They typically wander the tank for awhile. With a larger space and ample rockwork, they'll settle and recover a lot faster. I was able to turn around a new 'very' healthy clone in less than a month from a forced split. They survive transportation a lot better that way.