Basement Return Pump

Vapour1ze · 08/27/2014, 01:17 PM

Hi all, so planning out my next build and I have to plumb everything to the basement, tank is going to be on the 1st level on a stand, I'm going to drill a main hole behind the tank through the carpet and subfloor, and then jog over about 12ft to a room in the basement. I have probably a 15' drop total, but the total hose length would be about 30' I would assume.... I want something that is reliable, eco friendly on my power bill, and something that I can get around 1000gph on that much of a head.. Anyone do this or am I crazy?

Thanks!

lawdog · 08/27/2014, 01:20 PM

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2437170 - Yes my Iwaki that I have for sale! Not sure how much it would be to ship...but i could check...

Vapour1ze · 08/27/2014, 01:22 PM

What does that cost a month in electricity lol!

Vapour1ze · 08/27/2014, 01:32 PM

Jeez.....

hkgar · 08/27/2014, 01:32 PM

Fifteen feet from 3-4 feet off the floor on main floor to 4-5 from the ceiling in basement only seems to be about 9 foot max. Are you dropping two stories?

Vapour1ze · 08/27/2014, 01:34 PM

No, I have 9' ceilings, and to the back of the tank on the main level will be at least 5' and if the pump is on the floor in the basement. That is 14....

Vapour1ze · 08/27/2014, 01:36 PM

What about something like this? http://www.marinedepot.com/Pan_World...WPEPZT-vi.html

Aquarist007 · 08/27/2014, 01:45 PM

Here's my set up

150 Gal upstairs

Aquarist007 · 08/27/2014, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vapour1ze

Jeez.....

I like this Tks for posting
Where did you get the energy calculator?

hkgar · 08/27/2014, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vapour1ze

No, I have 9' ceilings, and to the back of the tank on the main level will be at least 5' and if the pump is on the floor in the basement. That is 14....

Wants again see what happens when you assume. Tight after i posted I realized I assumed you had the sump on a stand and standard basement ceilings.

Vapour1ze · 08/27/2014, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by capn_hylinur

Here's my set up

150 Gal upstairs

This is excellent, what kind of pump is that? What is your head approx? And what do you think you are getting for GPH up top in the display... Pump reliable?

ca1ore · 08/27/2014, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vapour1ze

What about something like this? http://www.marinedepot.com/Pan_World...WPEPZT-vi.html

Pan world pumps are nice, I use them, but they aren't going to save you much versus Iwaki in terms of energy usage. Pumping against 15 feet of head pressure and a 30' run of piping means that you will lose at good chunk of capacity, maybe as much as half, so your looking at the Panworld 200PS. That's 290 watts compared to the Iwaki 70 at about 320; a bit less, but still probably the most expensive energy consumer on the tank. Trouble is that pumping against that much pressure requires a pump rated for pressure - shocker! Maybe something like a ReeFlo would work too, but I've no direct experience with them - or even if they are more energy efficient. Physics tends to be physics.

FWIW, most people, IMO, feel the need to run far more water through their sump than is necessary. I'm currently running a 265 and use the Panworld 150PS as my main return pump (180 watts) against maybe a bit less pressure than you propose (head of 10 feet and 20' run) which gives me 2-3 times tank turnover per hour - more than sufficient as the picture attests.

Loads of in-tank flow though!

Vapour1ze · 08/27/2014, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ca1ore

Pan world pumps are nice, I use them, but they aren't going to save you much versus Iwaki in terms of energy usage. Pumping against 15 feet of head pressure and a 30' run of piping means that you will lose at good chunk of capacity, maybe as much as half, so your looking at the Panworld 200PS. That's 290 watts compared to the Iwaki 70 at about 320; a bit less, but still probably the most expensive energy consumer on the tank.

FWIW, most people, IMO, feel the need to run far more water through their sump than is necessary. I'm currently running a 265 and use the Panworld 150PS as my main return pump (180 watts) against maybe a bit less pressure than you propose (head of 10 feet and 20' run) which gives me 2-3 times tank turnover per hour - more than sufficient.

Good reasoning, I agree too, I see a lot of people pumping all the water through there sump before it is even skimmed. I will take a look at what you are using! Thanks!

Vapour1ze · 08/27/2014, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by capn_hylinur

I like this Tks for posting
Where did you get the energy calculator?

http://www.rapidtables.com/calc/elec...calculator.htm

Aquarist007 · 08/27/2014, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vapour1ze

This is excellent, what kind of pump is that? What is your head approx? And what do you think you are getting for GPH up top in the display... Pump reliable?

A lot more pics of my build here
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1786183
Appreciate if you would comment to bring the thread back up as active

That's a blue line 70. The pump has been operating 24/7 for 7 years now.
The head is 10 feet. The flow through the system is 1500 gph. Even with that head and flow I still have a return release into the sump.
The only maintenance I have had to do is occasionally remove very small snails or debris from the impeller. That's easy too..5 bolts and the head pops right off
I don't know the energy usage but I am about to find out with the link that was just posted

ca1ore · 08/27/2014, 02:35 PM

Blueline 70 = Panworld 200; same pump just a different badge.

Vapour1ze · 08/27/2014, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by capn_hylinur

A lot more pics of my build here
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1786183
Appreciate if you would comment to bring the thread back up as active

That's a blue line 70. The pump has been operating 24/7 for 7 years now.
The head is 10 feet. The flow through the system is 1500 gph. Even with that head and flow I still have a return release into the sump.
The only maintenance I have had to do is occasionally remove very small snails or debris from the impeller. That's easy too..5 bolts and the head pops right off
I don't know the energy usage but I am about to find out with the link that was just posted

Excellent! I will be checking out that thread!

Thanks man!

Aquarist007 · 08/27/2014, 04:38 PM

The blue line 70 costs at a high 22 dollars a month to run. In Ontario there peak mid peak and off peak hours with different rates

Vapour1ze · 08/28/2014, 07:19 AM

I guess that would be the key factor in my power bill. + led lights but those can't be much.

neogenix · 08/28/2014, 07:54 AM

http://www.reeflopumps.com/lowspeedhighflow.html

I've recently picked up two reeflo barracuda hammerhead hybrids for a similar task. At 22 feet they'd come in at a peak load of 190 watts each (I'm using one as a backup) but you could also tune it down to slow the flow even more, and use less power.

They're not cheap though! And they do have other models that use less power

neogenix · 08/28/2014, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vapour1ze

I guess that would be the key factor in my power bill. + led lights but those can't be much.

You'd be surprised. Some of them get as high as 190w per module. Still significantly less than a 1kw mh, and less need to run a chiller, etc...

Find power usage on this post (in the spec table):

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2013/8/review

Also, don't forget to account for power heads, skimmer, heaters and fuge light (if you're going to run a fuge).

You could also save power by putting a larger volume of water in your basement and insulating/covering it (reduce evap, and cooking needs).

If you can shrink the distance a few feet you could always use one of these:

http://www.championlighting.com/prod...5&cat=0&page=1

neogenix · 08/28/2014, 08:08 AM

Oh also, before I forget, don't forget to account for horizontal head pressure, and fittings, especially 90 degree bends (each adding a foot of head pressure).

If it's just for return, you'll need to just get enough water going up there to turn your tank over once or twice an hour, nothing insane.

Vapour1ze · 08/28/2014, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neogenix

Oh also, before I forget, don't forget to account for horizontal head pressure, and fittings, especially 90 degree bends (each adding a foot of head pressure).

If it's just for return, you'll need to just get enough water going up there to turn your tank over once or twice an hour, nothing insane.

Thanks buddy! Appreciate it!

shermanator · 08/28/2014, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by capn_hylinur

That's a blue line 70. The pump has been operating 24/7 for 7 years now.
The head is 10 feet. The flow through the system is 1500 gph.

How is that possible? A BL70 is 1750 gph @ 0'.

Vapour1ze · 08/28/2014, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shermanator

How is that possible? A BL70 is 1750 gph @ 0'.

I think it's actually about 1020 at a 10' head...

08/27/2014, 01:17 PM	#1
Vapour1ze I'm an Addict. Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Yorkville, IL Posts: 3,036	Basement Return Pump Hi all, so planning out my next build and I have to plumb everything to the basement, tank is going to be on the 1st level on a stand, I'm going to drill a main hole behind the tank through the carpet and subfloor, and then jog over about 12ft to a room in the basement. I have probably a 15' drop total, but the total hose length would be about 30' I would assume.... I want something that is reliable, eco friendly on my power bill, and something that I can get around 1000gph on that much of a head.. Anyone do this or am I crazy? Thanks! __________________ 93 Reef \| 220 Reef \| Basement Fish Life Support Room \| Empty Savings Account

08/27/2014, 01:20 PM	#2
lawdog Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Rootstown, Ohio Posts: 794	http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2437170 - Yes my Iwaki that I have for sale! Not sure how much it would be to ship...but i could check... __________________ Regards, Craig "Will be giving Free Legal Advice Tomorrow..." Current Tank Info: Marineland 200DD Reef Tank, In Wall, Still Rocking dual 250W MH lights; LifeReef skimmer, Custom Sump/Refuge, Reeflo Dart Return to Seaswirls; Tunze Streams (waiting for new Riptide!); Lifereef Calc Reactor; Keeper of Magnifica Ritteri!

08/27/2014, 01:22 PM	#3
Vapour1ze I'm an Addict. Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Yorkville, IL Posts: 3,036	What does that cost a month in electricity lol! __________________ 93 Reef \| 220 Reef \| Basement Fish Life Support Room \| Empty Savings Account

08/27/2014, 01:32 PM	#4
Vapour1ze I'm an Addict. Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Yorkville, IL Posts: 3,036	Jeez..... __________________ 93 Reef \| 220 Reef \| Basement Fish Life Support Room \| Empty Savings Account

08/27/2014, 01:32 PM	#5
hkgar Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Dewitt MI Posts: 5,051	Fifteen feet from 3-4 feet off the floor on main floor to 4-5 from the ceiling in basement only seems to be about 9 foot max. Are you dropping two stories? __________________ Gary 180 gallon, 40 gallon sump, 3 250 W MH + 4 80W ATI T5's, MTC MVX 36 Skimmer, Apex controller Aquamaxx T-3 CaRx Current Tank Info: A 2 Barred Rabbitfish, Red Head Salon, Yellow/Purple, McMaster Fairy, Possum, 2 Leopard Wrasses, Kole, & Atlantic Blue Tangs, 2 Percula Clown, 3 PJ and 1 Banggai Cardinalfish , Swallowtail, Bellus and Coral Beauty Angels

08/27/2014, 01:34 PM	#6
Vapour1ze I'm an Addict. Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Yorkville, IL Posts: 3,036	No, I have 9' ceilings, and to the back of the tank on the main level will be at least 5' and if the pump is on the floor in the basement. That is 14.... __________________ 93 Reef \| 220 Reef \| Basement Fish Life Support Room \| Empty Savings Account

08/27/2014, 01:36 PM	#7
Vapour1ze I'm an Addict. Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Yorkville, IL Posts: 3,036	What about something like this? http://www.marinedepot.com/Pan_World...WPEPZT-vi.html __________________ 93 Reef \| 220 Reef \| Basement Fish Life Support Room \| Empty Savings Account

08/27/2014, 01:45 PM	#8
Aquarist007 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Hamilton, Canada Posts: 28,240 Blog Entries: 1	Here's my set up 150 Gal upstairs __________________ I prefer my substrates stirred but not shaken Current Tank Info: 150gal long mixed reef, 90gal sump, 60 gal refugium with 200 lbs live rock

08/27/2014, 02:35 PM	#16
ca1ore Grizzled & Cynical Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Stamford, CT Posts: 17,319	Blueline 70 = Panworld 200; same pump just a different badge. __________________ Simon Got back into the hobby ..... planned to keep it simple ..... yeah, right ..... clearly I need a new plan! Pet peeve: anemones host clowns; clowns do not host anemones! Current Tank Info: 450 Reef; 120 refugium; 60 Frag Tank, 30 Introduction tank; multiple QTs

08/27/2014, 04:38 PM	#18
Aquarist007 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Hamilton, Canada Posts: 28,240 Blog Entries: 1	The blue line 70 costs at a high 22 dollars a month to run. In Ontario there peak mid peak and off peak hours with different rates __________________ I prefer my substrates stirred but not shaken Current Tank Info: 150gal long mixed reef, 90gal sump, 60 gal refugium with 200 lbs live rock

08/28/2014, 07:19 AM	#19
Vapour1ze I'm an Addict. Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Yorkville, IL Posts: 3,036	I guess that would be the key factor in my power bill. + led lights but those can't be much. __________________ 93 Reef \| 220 Reef \| Basement Fish Life Support Room \| Empty Savings Account

08/28/2014, 07:54 AM	#20
neogenix Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 95	http://www.reeflopumps.com/lowspeedhighflow.html I've recently picked up two reeflo barracuda hammerhead hybrids for a similar task. At 22 feet they'd come in at a peak load of 190 watts each (I'm using one as a backup) but you could also tune it down to slow the flow even more, and use less power. They're not cheap though! And they do have other models that use less power

08/28/2014, 08:08 AM	#22
neogenix Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 95	Oh also, before I forget, don't forget to account for horizontal head pressure, and fittings, especially 90 degree bends (each adding a foot of head pressure). If it's just for return, you'll need to just get enough water going up there to turn your tank over once or twice an hour, nothing insane.