is this ich

johnhenry1 · 09/08/2014, 03:15 PM

Is this ich? I dont think it is because my naso has had these white spots for a month now. 1 month of copper didnt affect it, if anything it made the spots worse. The naso doesn't seem affected by them, other than twitching of the fins. (i have seen other nasos do this so I am not sure if this is normal). He eats like a pig and is not shy at all. It almost looks like I could pick the spots off. Could this be lymphocytis? He is currently the only fish in a 300 gallon fowlr.

snorvich · 09/08/2014, 03:43 PM

Yes, it appears to be ich from the picture; however a fish does not have to have visible symptoms in order to have ich. It is not lymphocystis. If copper is not maintained at a therapeutic dose for at least 30 days, it will not kill ich. Treating with copper in a tank that has live rock, live sand, will be an effort in futility.

HumbleFish · 09/08/2014, 03:48 PM

Are you saying the fish has continuously had these white spots for a month now? Or do they come & go?

johnhenry1 · 09/08/2014, 04:48 PM

He has had these white spots continuously, which is confusing because that disagrees with the ich life cycle. Also, he was grated in a different tank than shown, that's the display, and he was treated in a 75 gallon quarantine tank. the copper was tested every three days for a month and it measured .5. However, it was an API test kit and I was using cupramine. I just find it strange that the spots haven't gone away or increased, and the fish doesn't seem affected.

HumbleFish · 09/08/2014, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnhenry1

He has had these white spots continuously, which is confusing because that disagrees with the ich life cycle. Also, he was grated in a different tank than shown, that's the display, and he was treated in a 75 gallon quarantine tank. the copper was tested every three days for a month and it measured .5. However, it was an API test kit and I was using cupramine. I just find it strange that the spots haven't gone away or increased, and the fish doesn't seem affected.

Then it must be something other than ich/velvet. When you say it "looks like I could pick the spots off"; does that mean it appears to be on top of the skin? "White spots" caused by ich trophonts would appear to be under the skin.

It could be worms of some sort. If so, a FW dip or formalin bath may have an effect on it. Also, check out the two threads below to see if what you're dealing with bears any resemblance:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2440449

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2295036

johnhenry1 · 09/08/2014, 06:45 PM

Yes it looks like I could easily pick them off. They look like whiteheads of pimples.

johnhenry1 · 09/08/2014, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HumbleFish

Then it must be something other than ich/velvet. When you say it "looks like I could pick the spots off"; does that mean it appears to be on top of the skin? "White spots" caused by ich trophonts would appear to be under the skin.

It could be worms of some sort. If so, a FW dip or formalin bath may have an effect on it. Also, check out the two threads below to see if what you're dealing with bears any resemblance:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2440449

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2295036

It is definitely the disease of the first thread, if not worse. maybe it was caused by the copper?

HumbleFish · 09/08/2014, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnhenry1

It is definitely the disease of the first thread, if not worse. maybe it was caused by the copper?

Possibly. At the moment it's a "mystery disease" that we seem to be seeing more of on here.

NarakuAulonocar · 09/08/2014, 08:57 PM

Does anyone think it might be a possibility that this "mystery disease" is a mutant strain of ich being passed in captive fish? Maybe our use of copper and hypo has caused them to adapt over time.

I have noticed that these kind of spots don't fall off the fish easily. They fell off one of my fish during hurricane Sandy. I'm speculating maybe they are stimulated to fall off during darkness. IME fish may appear fine for months but eventually they stop eating.

These spots appear bigger than traditional whitespot. Maybe the exterior is thickened to protect them from copper and hypo.

its a loose loose situation because fish can't eat if you keep the lights off 24/7.
Yet the spots don't fall off. Then you can't touch the spots with copper nor hypo. Chloroquine seems to have mixed results.

NarakuAulonocar · 09/08/2014, 09:06 PM

It maybe caused by copper. However, in my experience, it happened without me adding copper after a month in quarantine. Then when I add the copper, it got better for a few days and then came back worse.

Thats why I'm thinking copper with TT but people are saying thats too harsh and copper is the cause.

I am really stumped by this disease

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnhenry1

It is definitely the disease of the first thread, if not worse. maybe it was caused by the copper?

avandss · 09/08/2014, 10:05 PM

this does kind of look like what is happening to my pyramids, only difference it the pyramids seems to have it mostly on the body, your are spread everywhere

at this point, after everything else failed, i will try the 3 days of darkness.

this is very odd...

NarakuAulonocar · 09/08/2014, 10:10 PM

I think the spots fell off on the 8th day of hurricane sandy (in darkness)
in my case FYI

Quote:

Originally Posted by avandss

this does kind of look like what is happening to my pyramids, only difference it the pyramids seems to have it mostly on the body, your are spread everywhere

at this point, after everything else failed, i will try the 3 days of darkness.

this is very odd...

ca1ore · 09/09/2014, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HumbleFish

Possibly. At the moment it's a "mystery disease" that we seem to be seeing more of on here.

I wonder if it's some kind of 'new' parasite? Wouldn't that be wonderful .....

johnhenry1 · 09/17/2014, 08:43 PM

Well the Naso Tang died. It's a shame because he was such a nice fish. The spots were the same as before, not worse not better. When he died,he was laying on the bottom with his spine curved. When I took him out of the water, the white spots were gone, but there were holes where the white spots had been. I am starting to think that this may have been some type of worms and not ich.

09/08/2014, 03:15 PM	#1
johnhenry1 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 58	is this ich Is this ich? I dont think it is because my naso has had these white spots for a month now. 1 month of copper didnt affect it, if anything it made the spots worse. The naso doesn't seem affected by them, other than twitching of the fins. (i have seen other nasos do this so I am not sure if this is normal). He eats like a pig and is not shy at all. It almost looks like I could pick the spots off. Could this be lymphocytis? He is currently the only fish in a 300 gallon fowlr.

09/08/2014, 03:43 PM	#2
snorvich Team RC member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Outlander Posts: 40,953 Blog Entries: 46	Yes, it appears to be ich from the picture; however a fish does not have to have visible symptoms in order to have ich. It is not lymphocystis. If copper is not maintained at a therapeutic dose for at least 30 days, it will not kill ich. Treating with copper in a tank that has live rock, live sand, will be an effort in futility. __________________ Warmest regards, ~Steve~

09/08/2014, 03:48 PM	#3
HumbleFish Moved On Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 4,757	Are you saying the fish has *continuously* had these white spots for a month now? Or do they come & go?

09/08/2014, 04:48 PM	#4
johnhenry1 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 58	He has had these white spots continuously, which is confusing because that disagrees with the ich life cycle. Also, he was grated in a different tank than shown, that's the display, and he was treated in a 75 gallon quarantine tank. the copper was tested every three days for a month and it measured .5. However, it was an API test kit and I was using cupramine. I just find it strange that the spots haven't gone away or increased, and the fish doesn't seem affected.

09/08/2014, 06:45 PM	#6
johnhenry1 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 58	Yes it looks like I could easily pick them off. They look like whiteheads of pimples.

09/08/2014, 08:57 PM	#9
NarakuAulonocar Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: New Jersey Posts: 231	Does anyone think it might be a possibility that this "mystery disease" is a mutant strain of ich being passed in captive fish? Maybe our use of copper and hypo has caused them to adapt over time. I have noticed that these kind of spots don't fall off the fish easily. They fell off one of my fish during hurricane Sandy. I'm speculating maybe they are stimulated to fall off during darkness. IME fish may appear fine for months but eventually they stop eating. These spots appear bigger than traditional whitespot. Maybe the exterior is thickened to protect them from copper and hypo. its a loose loose situation because fish can't eat if you keep the lights off 24/7. Yet the spots don't fall off. Then you can't touch the spots with copper nor hypo. Chloroquine seems to have mixed results.

09/08/2014, 10:05 PM	#11
avandss I'm hooked Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Canada / Montreal Posts: 818	this does kind of look like what is happening to my pyramids, only difference it the pyramids seems to have it mostly on the body, your are spread everywhere at this point, after everything else failed, i will try the 3 days of darkness. this is very odd...

09/17/2014, 08:43 PM	#14
johnhenry1 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 58	Well the Naso Tang died. It's a shame because he was such a nice fish. The spots were the same as before, not worse not better. When he died,he was laying on the bottom with his spine curved. When I took him out of the water, the white spots were gone, but there were holes where the white spots had been. I am starting to think that this may have been some type of worms and not ich.