A less than perfect start

[Gup_King]

About a week ago I added the first livestock to my tank; I went for a tuxedo urchin, a few turbos and a starfish (the type escapes me but it is possibly a sand sifter, as that is what it spends it's time doing).

Whilst acclimatising them the urchin managed to climb out of it's bag, taking a couple of turbos with it. Everything was fine for a couple of days but the urchin then stopped moving, as did a couple of the snails, I gave them a few days but eventually accepted that the shock of jumping into a new system had killed them.

As my star and remaining snails were okay and parametres stable I decided to add a fish and a couple of corals on Sunday, as well as replacing my casualties. The lavender dartfish has settled in nicely and I was pleasantly surprised to find him outside of his cave on Monday morning. The inverts on the other hand are not looking so fantastic. My urchin has not moved in a day and I believe one of the snails may have died. As for the corals, the white xenia appears to be very 'limp' (though apparently this is fairly normal in a new tank) and the green polyp is closed and has orange looking 'tubes' on it (not sure if that is normal).

I'm quite upset about the whole thing as a lot of time, effort and money has gone into the tank and I still kind of feel like I've done something wrong and ended up killing my should-be inhabitants as a result.

The parameters of my tank still seem stable, with the exception of salinity, which was reading at 1.026 but yesterday evening showed 1.027 and today 1.028. As I am using a hydrometer I'm concerned that salinity may be even high than these readings.

My dartfish and star still seems very active and healthy, as do the definitely live snails. Do I assume that salinity is the issue or could it be something else? I have ordered a refractometer and done a partial water change to lower salinity but is there anything else I can/should be doing?

I've attached photos but they were a bit rushed so let me know more would be helpful.

Thanks!

[bundybear1981]

How long has your tank been set up for now?
Can you please post your water figures - ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, calcium, alk and mag?
Was this a new or 2nd hand tank? Has it ever been treated with copper?
Also some details on your tank itself, the size, flow, lighting ect?

[Zer0.]

are you top toping off with fresh water either manually or with an ATO?

[Gup_King]

Originally Posted by Zer0.

are you top toping off with fresh water either manually or with an ATO?

I'm topping off with RO water.

[Gup_King]

Originally Posted by bundybear1981

How long has your tank been set up for now?
Can you please post your water figures - ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, calcium, alk and mag?
Was this a new or 2nd hand tank? Has it ever been treated with copper?
Also some details on your tank itself, the size, flow, lighting ect?

Ammonia - 0
Nitrate - 0
Calcium - 540ppm (a little high)
Ph - 8.2
Temperature - 26

Magnesium I'm unsure on, I was told that I wouldn't need to worry about it unless my Ph or calcium were suffering; should I rush out and buy a test kit?

Technically it was a second-hand tank but it was never actually used. I cleaned it out when I got it and towel dried to make sure that no tap water was left. I've stuck to RO water and as it was unused I doubt the tank has ever seen copper, though I could be wrong.

The tank is 130l (part of that is a built in filter), the powerhead is a aqua one moray 480 (720l/hr). The tank has 11kg of live rock and a live sand and crushed coral mixed bed about an inch and a half deep.

Sorry for the delay, I've been trying to find out the lamp wattage, however I've lost the piece of paper with it on and googling the model gives no joy. When I took it into a LFS they said it should be fine (but I have since changed stores because I wasn't entirely happy with them). The best I can offer is that it's a 72 led strip.

EDIT: A bit more digging and I found that the wattage MAY be 17W, which seemed low so after a quick google, apparently I shouldn't be looking at wattage for LEDs.

[Gup_King]

Originally Posted by Gup_King

I'm topping off with RO water.

Sorry, was in a hurry. I'm topping off manually.

[thegrun]

I would say you are rushing things a little and need to do a little more research on livestock before you purchase them. At this point in time I do not see the need for you to test magnesium; once you start keeping stony corals I would test for magnesium, but with fish and soft corals your primary concerns are ammonia, nitrates, alkalinity, salinity and temperature. How are you acclimating your livestock? The proper steps in acclimating are very important; many of the animals we keep do not handle changes in salinity or temperature well. You should also be quarantining all livestock or eventually you will have a major issue with disease. On a more specific note, your tank may not have enough algae to support your urchin and it will starve if you do not feed it nori. It is highly unlikely that a new tank could support a sand sifting starfish; it will starve after it decimates everything living in your sand.

[Gup_King]

Originally Posted by thegrun

I would say you are rushing things a little and need to do a little more research on livestock before you purchase them. At this point in time I do not see the need for you to test magnesium; once you start keeping stony corals I would test for magnesium, but with fish and soft corals your primary concerns are ammonia, nitrates, alkalinity, salinity and temperature. How are you acclimating your livestock? The proper steps in acclimating are very important; many of the animals we keep do not handle changes in salinity or temperature well. You should also be quarantining all livestock or eventually you will have a major issue with disease. On a more specific note, your tank may not have enough algae to support your urchin and it will starve if you do not feed it nori. It is highly unlikely that a new tank could support a sand sifting starfish; it will starve after it decimates everything living in your sand.

I've done quite a bit of research but there are so many contrasting views I've found myself ultimately going with the opinion of my LFS, who advised me that everything I've added should be fine (whilst suggesting me to hold off on other things). With regards to the star, I wasn't planning on getting one, for exactly the reasons you said but again my LFS suggested it may help as I had quite a bit of algae on my sand.

I acclimatised the livestock over an hour and a half, by placing the bags in the main tank and adding tank water every ten minutes for an hour and a half.

What would you advise me to do at this stage?

Edit: I should point out that my LFS is a respected chain, not a guy with a few dirty tanks in a bank room.

[thegrun]

I suspect that the salinity may be the culprit here, but far from certain. In the short term if your LFS is close, have them check your salinity. If it is off, make adjustments very slowly. Invertebrates are particularly susceptible to rapid changes in salinity. Adjustments should be made over days, not hours. Try to limit the salinity changes to 0.001 per day, 0.002 at the absolute most. If your salinity levels are in range we will need to explore other possibilities.

[Gup_King]

Originally Posted by thegrun

I suspect that the salinity may be the culprit here, but far from certain. In the short term if your LFS is close, have them check your salinity. If it is off, make adjustments very slowly. Invertebrates are particularly susceptible to rapid changes in salinity. Adjustments should be made over days, not hours. Try to limit the salinity changes to 0.001 per day, 0.002 at the absolute most. If your salinity levels are in range we will need to explore other possibilities.

Thanks.

I'm going to give it another day but assuming the urchin is dead should I avoid replacing it? Also, will the corals recover in the correct salinity (assuming that is the issue).

[Petrocelli.N]

If this is still a new tank the issue may be lack of food for the snails and urch

[disc1]

Originally Posted by Gup_King

Ammonia - 0
Nitrate - 0
Calcium - 540ppm (a little high)
Ph - 8.2
Temperature - 26

Alkalinity?

[edinphilly]

Definitely would get a refractometer. You can get one cheap on eBay.

[zeebies]

Originally Posted by bundybear1981

How long has your tank been set up for now?

^^^

[MinnFish]

This is not the time to replace lost livestock. Concentrate on getting your water parameter under control and stable first. Remember your LFS is out to sell, sell, sell. Research before purchasing any livestock. Tell us how long the tank been running. If, you salinity is raising by .001 each day. You are waiting too long to add water. Instead of investing in livestock, purchase a ATO. ATO will keep your salinity stable. Hope this helps, happy reefing.

[Shaummy]

Something I may have missed....how long has it been set up..and did you cycle it before you started all the livestock additions?

[Gup_King]

Originally Posted by Shaummy

Something I may have missed....how long has it been set up..and did you cycle it before you started all the livestock additions?

Nope, it's me that missed it.

It has been set up for around six weeks. Two with a small amount of rock, another two without livestock and the then gradually adding livestock.

It may seem very rushed but the rock was cured and from established tanks with no ammonia reading (I still test every couple of days to be safe and still no sign of any), and I was told that the tank would be safe and could be considered cycled.

[Gup_King]

Originally Posted by MinnFish

This is not the time to replace lost livestock. Concentrate on getting your water parameter under control and stable first. Remember your LFS is out to sell, sell, sell. Research before purchasing any livestock. Tell us how long the tank been running. If, you salinity is raising by .001 each day. You are waiting too long to add water. Instead of investing in livestock, purchase a ATO. ATO will keep your salinity stable. Hope this helps, happy reefing.

I think I will. Am I okay with a single float ATO or is it worth investing in a double?

[shesacharmer]

Those look to be Vermetid Snails in your polyps, those tubes each house a worm like creature. Usually if there is one or two it's not so bad but those polyps look irritated by them since there are so many. I'd break off the tubes and fill the holes with super glue gel.

The Xenia will probably perk up again. Softies often go through cranky phases. The Urchin...well if it doesn't move...maybe smell it? If it smells bad it's a goner. And the starfish would probably starve in a six month tank let alone a six week tank I'm sorry to say.

[Gup_King]

Originally Posted by shesacharmer

Those look to be Vermetid Snails in your polyps, those tubes each house a worm like creature. Usually if there is one or two it's not so bad but those polyps look irritated by them since there are so many. I'd break off the tubes and fill the holes with super glue gel.

The Xenia will probably perk up again. Softies often go through cranky phases. The Urchin...well if it doesn't move...maybe smell it? If it smells bad it's a goner. And the starfish would probably starve in a six month tank let alone a six week tank I'm sorry to say.

Thanks. I'll deal with Vermetid's tonight.

With the star I think I put a little too much stock in what the LFS told me but I guess it's a learning big curve.

Is there anything you'd advise with regards to the Xenia, or just give it time?

[PCygni]

Isn't that poor Starfish gonna starve to death, meester?

[Gup_King]

Originally Posted by PCygni

Isn't that poor Starfish gonna starve to death, meester?

Looks that way. I'm gonna see what I can do about it but I'm not sure about returning it to the LFS for the same thing to happen again.

I do plan on doing something though, I just haven't got it worked out yet.

[Mhay]

If the urchin is dead all the spines would fall off. I would get your parameters stabilized before adding anything else. I personally think it is too soon to add corals, but that is my personal view. What size tank and how much rock do you have? You may need more to be able to handle the bio load.

[Gup_King]

Originally Posted by Mhay

If the urchin is dead all the spines would fall off. I would get your parameters stabilized before adding anything else. I personally think it is too soon to add corals, but that is my personal view. What size tank and how much rock do you have? You may need more to be able to handle the bio load.

The first urchin was definitely deadbut still had its spines.
I will hold off on adding much but the corals that are in there will have to stay and once I get the Xenia establised I'm hoping it will act as a 'parameter alarm' (as well as testing).
The tank is 130litres with 11 kg of live rock.

[Mhay]

Xenias are pretty hardy not sure if they would work as an "alarm" as it would take a good amount to upset them. I would add more rock, I would rather have too much than not enough. Also depends on the type of rock you have. I would also test for copper just to rule that out as well. I had a problem with that and it really messed things up.