Pondering new tank and had plumbing question on 300DD tank drains and return....

[DavidinGA]

Considering a 300DD tank and was wondering about the drain/returns...

Everyone says the four 1" holes are undersized as most people want more flow than what they can offer and usually people will use all 4 holes as drains and then run the returns up and over the back; I was considering something different.

I'm not a big fan of high turnover through the sump and would be content at 3-4x turnover like I'm running in my 210gal now. So, would their be any problems running a herbie drain setup where I used 2 of the drains at full siphon and the third as the backup dry/emergency line and then use the 4th hole as a single return line? That way I could avoid having to use any up and over extra return lines.

I prefer in-sump return pumps for simplicity and would run perhaps a Water Blaster 10000 return. At my 5ft of head on those that would put me at around 1350gph. Two full siphon 1" drains should do up to 1600gph right (800gph each)?


Thanks

[alton]

I have been running my 300DD since 2009 with a Pan World 50PXX (1110 gph) and a 40PX (480gph) with no issues

[alton]

Sorry Double Post

[DavidinGA]

Originally Posted by alton

I have been running my 300DD since 2009 with a Pan World 50PXX (1110 gph) and a 40PX (480gph) with no issues

So your returns are 1590gph; does that take into account your head loss and are you running two 1" drains?

[ridetheducati]

I run four drains, two primary and two emergency (Herbie style). Tank turn over is approximately 1000 gph. I aim for 3x tank volume.

[DavidinGA]

Originally Posted by ridetheducati

I run four drains, two primary and two emergency (Herbie style). Tank turn over is approximately 1000 gph. I aim for 3x tank volume.

Why use all four drains if your only running 1000gph though? Have you experimenting with a bigger gph return to see how many gph those drains could handle?

[viggen]

If possible I would consider going with a larger tank. The 300g is only 90g or so larger.... When you are going through all the hassle why not go bigger

[DavidinGA]

Originally Posted by viggen

If possible I would consider going with a larger tank. The 300g is only 90g or so larger.... When you are going through all the hassle why not go bigger

Not enough room anywhere

I have a space where I could put up to a 7ft long tank and up to 36" wide. I could have a custom tank built that would be a bit bigger than the 300dd (maybe a 7ft x 3ft x 30"T) but that's a bunch of cash...

[DavidinGA]

A 300gal is almost a 43% increase over my 210gal too

[albano]

IMO using 2 as drains and 2 as emergency/overflow is the only way to go... A 1" drain can easily be clogged by a large snail...that would be a big problem

[DavidinGA]

Originally Posted by albano

IMO using 2 as drains and 2 as emergency/overflow is the only way to go... A 1" drain can easily be clogged by a large snail...that would be a big problem

I suppose if the pipe is left open enough for a snail or something to clog it...

On my current herbie drain standpipe what I did was drill a bunch of holes all around the pipe up and down and then put an end cap on the top of the pipe with a little hole drilled in it too. That way the holes are much too small for anything to get in there big enough to ever clog the drain. The large number of holes that I drilled ensure their is still no restriction in the full siphon. I wish I had a picture but you get the idea....

[ridetheducati]

Originally Posted by albano

imo using 2 as drains and 2 as emergency/overflow is the only way to go... A 1" drain can easily be clogged by a large snail...that would be a big problem

+1

[DavidinGA]

ttt

[alton]

Originally Posted by DavidinGA

So your returns are 1590gph; does that take into account your head loss and are you running two 1" drains?

Still using the factory equipment from Marineland which are 1" and they exit straight down not a lot of 90's which can cause problems. External pumps do not lose as much GPH as internal pumps, but I do not know the exact GPH my pumps are putting out

[travis010]

I use two for the returns and two for the drains on my 300g DD. I have a Fluval Sea SP6 return pump (3434 gph at 0 head height) that splits to feed both returns. I measured the rate of the two returns into my sump and I'm getting right around 1500 gph total. The drains have no problem keeping up with that rate.

[ca1ore]

I run a dual overflow marineland 265. I see no benefit to pushing massive amounts of water through my sump, so use a Panworld 150 as my main pump. It's pushing up from my basement, so I estimate I'm getting about 900 net of head and pipe resistance. I set my drains up as a full siphon/open channel in one corner and an open channel/return in the other. I adjusted the height of the solo open channel so that it takes about a third of the flow (it feeds my ATS, so requires 300 GPH or so) which keeps it relatively quiet; remaining 2/3 is via the siphon. I think if I was doing it over I'd go with dual siphons though; and run the return through the back of one of the overflows - either that or just not get a RR tank and do it right.

BTW, simple screen on all drains prevents majority of large catastrophic obstructions.

[DavidinGA]

You guys are running full syphon drains without a dry emergency backup?

[rgulrich]

I use one full siphon and one emergency per corner in my 300DD. For the siphon I put a large bulkhead overflow strainer in each. They need to be cleaned of assorted hubris (okay, debris, but so much of what we here in relation to these systems is hubris, and it needs to be cleaned out) every couple of weeks, and I don't worry about a snail clogging the intake and causing the requisite advertised havoc. If either intake should clog, either of the emergencies can more than easily take up the flow.
Reeflo Hammerhead 'Cuda Hybrid in basement for return. Use some of the return flow for a large waterfall algae filter, calcium reactor, and gfo/carbon reactor. I'm moving an estimated 900-1000 gallons an hour through the sump, a little over 3X aquarium volume in turnover. Plenty of filtration. 1" returns over the top, street 90 in the overflow chamber where I use the loc-line to exit one of the punch-outs in each overflow.
Sump easily handles the back siphon from these overflows, and is tested at least once daily for feedings and occasional maintenance or filter cleaning.

[alton]

Originally Posted by DavidinGA

You guys are running full syphon drains without a dry emergency backup?

For 24 years

[jared355]

I run mine with 2 drains and 2 returns. My return pump is a hammerhead reef lo and I have it 3/4" open if not more and it does fine. It only powers my bio pellets. It use to power my MRC orca pro but I was having issues after doing water changes so I switched it to a mag pump and it handled the extra gph without over filling still. Not sure how but my 2 1" bulk head move a lot of water very quickly

My tank is sps dominated so I stil don't see how people think there underrated/underpowered

[DogueDeBordeaux]

I have a 300DD plumbed herbie style. I am using all 4 as drains (2 siphon, 2 emergency) with 1 return over the top with seaswirl.
I used 2 1' gate valves on drains, then both Tee into 1 1/2" larger pipe to sump.

[DavidinGA]

Originally Posted by DogueDeBordeaux

I have a 300DD plumbed herbie style. I am using all 4 as drains (2 siphon, 2 emergency) with 1 return over the top with seaswirl.
I used 2 1' gate valves on drains, then both Tee into 1 1/2" larger pipe to sump.

For guys running this style of setup...why not run two siphons, one dry backup and the final 4th hole as the return? The odds of needing both reserve emergency drains would be pretty slim I would imagine.

[rgulrich]

@DavidinGA - It has to do with physics or fluid dynamics or somesuch...at any rate, the side without a siphon will tend to stagnate, unless you incorporate a way to move the water out. That's the nature of installing a Herbie-style system in these reef-ready variants of the DD aquariums. It's much easier to engineer and install an over the back return, 2 siphons, and 2 emergencies, than it is to move that standing water out in a graceful manner.

If there was an efficient and not-so-messy way of connecting the two corner overflows, that might solve the problem. Unfortunately...well, they are in opposite corners and that makes it a little difficult. That is one of main arguments against Reef Ready equipped aquariums, and for a coast-to-coast or Bean Animal-type of overflow.

I'm quite happy with mine as it worked out with my Herbie-style system, even though the 1 1/2" combined drain line runs nearly 20 feet down to the basement and over a room...something many folks have told me over and over again doesn't work. I guess the physics or whatever are off a bit at my place. Actually, that might explain a lot of things around here....

Cheers, and have fun!
Ray

[DavidinGA]

Rgulrich...

I was under the impression that the 300dd had four 1" holes, right? So what I was saying was to use a full syphon drain in each overflow and one of the overflows would have a dry emergency backup and one of the overflows would have the return.

So, left corner:
One full syphon
One dry backup


Right corner:
One drain
One return line


Their shouldn't be any stagnation issues as water will drain to the sump through both overflows.

[albano]

Originally Posted by DavidinGA

I was under the impression that the 300dd had four 1" holes, right?...

They may have changed it, but I thought that there was 1x 1" & 1x 3/4" in each overflow