What next, upgrade skimmer or more rock?

Ser Davos · 01/08/2015, 01:34 PM

Hi all, I just got my 125g tank w/ 30g sump up and running. I drilled it for a safe and silent overflow system with a internal calfo overflow box. I have about 120 lbs of live sand in it, with not that much rock (maybe 25-30 lbs). Here is the equipment I have so far:

Return pump: Eheim 1262
Heater: Eheim Jager TruTemp 250
Lights: 2x OceanRevive Arctic-T247 LEDs
Wavemaker: 2x Jebao WP-40 (up to ~3400gph each)
Skimmer: Marineland 100 series (from what I have read this is junk, but it was free)

Also have a refractometer, and using Instant Ocean salt @ ~0.23-0.24.

I was hoping to take my time (although its been a year already) and have more rock and a nicer skimmer when I first set it up, but my wife wanted it out of the garage and running so I had to move quickly. The tank has been running for two weeks now with just sand, and the rock, one piece of which is live.

Due to budget contraints (ahem, again my wife lol) I can't get more rock and skimmer both at the moment. It will probably be 3-6 months before I can get the other. With about $250 to spend, what would be the next thing I should get? This is going to be a reef tank, with a few reef safe fish as well.

soulpatch · 01/08/2015, 01:44 PM

from what I understand (newb myself so take with grain of salt) you can get around protein skimmer with water changes and such whereas live rock adds to the overall workigns of the tank as well as more areas for the corals and fish to be.

gone fishin · 01/08/2015, 02:01 PM

Since you only got the two options I suppose I would go with the rock. I think it would help the system to keep a light bioload fish wise until you could get a skimmer up and going.

soulpatch · 01/08/2015, 02:05 PM

also in the next month or two order a purse and a skimmer from amazon... tell wife the skimmer came with the purse. win win...

Scuba_Steve · 01/08/2015, 02:08 PM

I agree. Get the rock. I would get a few pieces of really nice live rock, and a bunch of dry rock.

Scuba_Steve · 01/08/2015, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soulpatch

also in the next month or two order a purse and a skimmer from amazon... tell wife the skimmer came with the purse. win win...

LMAO exactly...

Compliance · 01/08/2015, 02:09 PM

You didn't mention an RO/DI filter..... For long term costs and to avoid headaches, that's really crucial.

gone fishin · 01/08/2015, 02:11 PM

Some time in February or March you might see a bunch of stuff on craigslist. A few months from Christmas is when frustration and crashes happen.

Ser Davos · 01/08/2015, 02:48 PM

Thanks for all the feedback, that's the direction I was leaning towards.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Compliance

You didn't mention an RO/DI filter..... For long term costs and to avoid headaches, that's really crucial.

Yes that is in the long term plan as well, for now sourcing it locally.

Compliance · 01/08/2015, 11:01 PM

Lugging water from the LFS is no bueno.

Although it does give you a legitimate excuse to go there.

ReefsandGeeks · 01/09/2015, 08:50 AM

I'd also go with a little live rock, and alot of dry rock. much better bang for your buck on dry rock, you can sort of fit them together before you buy if you're so inclined to do so, and they will become biologicaly live fairly quickly. It will take longer before they are colorful with coralline and fauna, but the bacteria will be there for filtration soon enough. then get a good skimmer before adding coral to make sure you can have good quality water for them (sugested) or you may be losing $ on salt for water changes trying to keep nitrates down.

dkeller_nc · 01/09/2015, 09:22 AM

I would buy the RODI system before I bought either the rock or the skimmer. Especially with a tank of your size. It'll save lots of $$ if you're buying the RODI from a local fish shop, as well as save your back.

Next thing I'd buy is an ATO, it's important for the stability of a reef tank, and will also mean you can leave the house for 2 or 3 days without worry.

Timfish · 01/09/2015, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soulpatch

also in the next month or two order a purse and a skimmer from amazon... tell wife the skimmer came with the purse. win win...

Or maybe a pair of shoes.

I would forgo the skimmer completely. And whether or not you have a skimmer you need to do water changes. Here's two of my skimmerless systems:

http://youtu.be/Vs_etaHSOfQ DBD1992 @ 22 Years
http://youtu.be/UjMFWHC4uBM GRJ timeline

Research on the coral holobiont is showing one of primary culprits in the degradation of reefs is Dissolved Organic Carbon, DOC. Research done by Feldman, et al, shows skimmers aren't that good at removing it. Here's links to some of his research:

Ganulated Activated Carbon pt. 1 & 2
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/1/aafeature1
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/2/aafeature1

Total Organic Carbon in Aquaria
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/8/aafeature3
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/9/aafeature2

Protein Skimate Analysis
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2010/2/aafeature

Protein Skimmer Performance
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2009/1/aafeature2
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2010/1/aafeature

Bacterial Counts in Aquaria vs Reefs
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2011/3/aafeature

Additionally I would encourage you to get Forest Rohwer's very readable and informative "Coral Reefs in the Microbial Seas" as well as Delbeek and Sprung's "The Reef Aquarium" Vol III as it discusses the skimmerless (and also pumpless) filtering methodologies.

tmz · 01/09/2015, 10:36 AM

I think skimers are very useful for aeration and the removal of certain organics. GAC is useful too. Back to your original question, I'd probably go for some rock,perhaps dry rock which is less expensive and can be cured and see how the skimmer you have works out

LadyG · 01/09/2015, 01:49 PM

I'm new to the saltwater, did it years ago and failed. I now have freshwater live plant fish tanks. I agree with the others that the live rock is more important. The rock is your filtering system. If you don't have enough, your system won't work well. I started with 10% live rock and the rest dry rock. 3 months later it's hard to tell the dry rock from the original live rock. From what I've read here and online, it takes a few months for your system to get dirty enough to need a skimmer. Hope this helps.

Spiderman097 · 01/09/2015, 02:20 PM

I'd get a skimmer if i were you

01/08/2015, 01:34 PM	#1
Ser Davos Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 46	What next, upgrade skimmer or more rock? Hi all, I just got my 125g tank w/ 30g sump up and running. I drilled it for a safe and silent overflow system with a internal calfo overflow box. I have about 120 lbs of live sand in it, with not that much rock (maybe 25-30 lbs). Here is the equipment I have so far: Return pump: Eheim 1262 Heater: Eheim Jager TruTemp 250 Lights: 2x OceanRevive Arctic-T247 LEDs Wavemaker: 2x Jebao WP-40 (up to ~3400gph each) Skimmer: Marineland 100 series (from what I have read this is junk, but it was free) Also have a refractometer, and using Instant Ocean salt @ ~0.23-0.24. I was hoping to take my time (although its been a year already) and have more rock and a nicer skimmer when I first set it up, but my wife wanted it out of the garage and running so I had to move quickly. The tank has been running for two weeks now with just sand, and the rock, one piece of which is live. Due to budget contraints (ahem, again my wife lol) I can't get more rock and skimmer both at the moment. It will probably be 3-6 months before I can get the other. With about $250 to spend, what would be the next thing I should get? This is going to be a reef tank, with a few reef safe fish as well. Last edited by Ser Davos; 01/08/2015 at 01:52 PM.

01/08/2015, 02:01 PM	#3
gone fishin Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Wyocena Wi Posts: 6,936	Since you only got the two options I suppose I would go with the rock. I think it would help the system to keep a light bioload fish wise until you could get a skimmer up and going. __________________ Tony Current Tank Info: 180gal DT, BM NAC77 skimmer,3 Maxspect razors, Maxspect Gyre 150, 30g QT

01/08/2015, 02:08 PM	#5
Scuba_Steve Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Pooler, Ga Posts: 1,342	I agree. Get the rock. I would get a few pieces of really nice live rock, and a bunch of dry rock. __________________ 40g DIY AIO. DT Size is 27"x18"x17" SCA-301 skimmer, DIY ATS 4"x4" 1 cube setup, Ocean Revive 120w LED, Quiet One 3000, Jager 150w TBS Rock

01/08/2015, 02:11 PM	#8
gone fishin Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Wyocena Wi Posts: 6,936	Some time in February or March you might see a bunch of stuff on craigslist. A few months from Christmas is when frustration and crashes happen. __________________ Tony Current Tank Info: 180gal DT, BM NAC77 skimmer,3 Maxspect razors, Maxspect Gyre 150, 30g QT

01/09/2015, 10:36 AM	#14
tmz ReefKeeping Mag staff Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: West Seneca NY Posts: 27,691	I think skimers are very useful for aeration and the removal of certain organics. GAC is useful too. Back to your original question, I'd probably go for some rock,perhaps dry rock which is less expensive and can be cured and see how the skimmer you have works out __________________ Tom Current Tank Info: Tank of the Month , November 2011 : 600gal integrated system: 3 display tanks (120 g, 90g, 89g),several frag/grow out tanks, macroalgae refugia, cryptic zones. 40+ fish, seahorses, sps,lps,leathers, zoanthidae and non photosynthetic corals. Last edited by tmz; 01/09/2015 at 10:41 AM.

01/08/2015, 01:44 PM	#2
soulpatch Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Downingtown, PA Posts: 4,017	from what I understand (newb myself so take with grain of salt) you can get around protein skimmer with water changes and such whereas live rock adds to the overall workigns of the tank as well as more areas for the corals and fish to be.

01/08/2015, 02:05 PM	#4
soulpatch Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Downingtown, PA Posts: 4,017	also in the next month or two order a purse and a skimmer from amazon... tell wife the skimmer came with the purse. win win...

01/08/2015, 02:09 PM	#7
Compliance Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 144	You didn't mention an RO/DI filter..... For long term costs and to avoid headaches, that's really crucial.

01/08/2015, 11:01 PM	#10
Compliance Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 144	Lugging water from the LFS is no bueno. Although it does give you a legitimate excuse to go there.

01/09/2015, 08:50 AM	#11
ReefsandGeeks Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 1,708	I'd also go with a little live rock, and alot of dry rock. much better bang for your buck on dry rock, you can sort of fit them together before you buy if you're so inclined to do so, and they will become biologicaly live fairly quickly. It will take longer before they are colorful with coralline and fauna, but the bacteria will be there for filtration soon enough. then get a good skimmer before adding coral to make sure you can have good quality water for them (sugested) or you may be losing $ on salt for water changes trying to keep nitrates down.

01/09/2015, 09:22 AM	#12
dkeller_nc Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Central NC Posts: 5,062	I would buy the RODI system before I bought either the rock or the skimmer. Especially with a tank of your size. It'll save lots of $$ if you're buying the RODI from a local fish shop, as well as save your back. Next thing I'd buy is an ATO, it's important for the stability of a reef tank, and will also mean you can leave the house for 2 or 3 days without worry.

01/09/2015, 01:49 PM	#15
LadyG Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Papillion, NE Posts: 56	I'm new to the saltwater, did it years ago and failed. I now have freshwater live plant fish tanks. I agree with the others that the live rock is more important. The rock is your filtering system. If you don't have enough, your system won't work well. I started with 10% live rock and the rest dry rock. 3 months later it's hard to tell the dry rock from the original live rock. From what I've read here and online, it takes a few months for your system to get dirty enough to need a skimmer. Hope this helps. __________________ 37 Gallon tall/Refugium S skimmer/Aquamana 165 watt LED light/2-WM circulation pumps

01/09/2015, 02:20 PM	#16
Spiderman097 Registered Member Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 115	I'd get a skimmer if i were you