Orp

Mylesweaver · 01/11/2015, 10:33 PM

I monitor my orp constantly to see how clean my piece of the reef is. I want to know who else does this and what your numbers are. I think there is a lot to tell about your water by this number and I don't hear a lot about it.

Mr sea water · 01/12/2015, 04:10 AM

I agree, I like it running around 390-400mv!

viktor72 · 01/12/2015, 04:51 AM

I would like to buy orp meter,pen like.but don't know is it worth getting one.

Mylesweaver · 01/12/2015, 10:06 AM

I would say it's a must. Everyone test for nitrate and phosfate but not orp,why? I've been getting my water super clean for about two years now and my orp is climbing. It's now 490. I think there is a direct reflection on how clean your water is. I started with an orp reading of about 350 and now my tank is so clean and clear I hit my nose on the glass all the time.

Mr sea water · 01/12/2015, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mylesweaver

I would say it's a must. Everyone test for nitrate and phosfate but not orp,why? I've been getting my water super clean for about two years now and my orp is climbing. It's now 490. I think there is a direct reflection on how clean your water is. I started with an orp reading of about 350 and now my tank is so clean and clear I hit my nose on the glass all the time.

Please can you tell me what you are useing to get 490mv?

bertoni · 01/12/2015, 10:24 AM

I personally skipped using an ORP meter. I don't think they indicate much, except as a safety net when running ozone. This article has more:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-1...ture/index.htm

I am skeptical that the 490 mV measurement is accurate. That's rather high, and might indicate that the probe needs to be cleaned or recalibrated.

wolfblue · 01/12/2015, 11:04 AM

490 mV can not be correct without ozone, or peroxide or permanganate dosing. And if its correct there almost certainly will be bromine, at the point where the probe is. 490 is too high for reef animals and bromine is the same as having bleach in the water.

Realistic ORP values for us without oxidants will be about 270-370. Up to about 400 is possible but for most those last few mV will be probe drift.

Greg 45 · 01/12/2015, 11:27 AM

After talking to most company's that sell orp and measure orp they state it's only a guide . Need to measure over weeks not daily . I personally don't trust the reading . It will show if something dies not true also . In my 1200 gallon system it's a toy that's all.

wolfblue · 01/12/2015, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg 45

In my 1200 gallon system it's a toy that's all.

You would need a dead whale behind the rocks to drive it down.

Mylesweaver · 01/12/2015, 11:41 AM

I don't use ozone I just have clean water. My water is almost 16 years old. My level started out at around 350 and the cleaner I got it the higher it went. I carbon dose with the skimmer air inlet outside the house getting fresh air I use carbon and gfo and I use coral snow. I feed more than anyone so my bacteria population is most likely very high. I also dose bacteria.most of my rock come in a trash bag from Fiji about 16 years ago and I've yet to smell or see live rock like it. It still had plants and dead crabs on it but it went straight in anyway, no cureing just raw , live , nasty rock. My sand is also about 16 years old some 8" deep some only 6. I've never cleaned it just stirred it up a couple times. No water changes. It's packed from top to bottom with coral and fish. Yes sps do just fine.i have every label of coral in it with a carnation that has spawned about 12 or so baby's

Mylesweaver · 01/12/2015, 11:46 AM

If you have to change your water to clean it your filter it not working. If your water is clean your orp will read high

Mylesweaver · 01/12/2015, 11:48 AM

I've been monitoring this reading for two years

slief · 01/12/2015, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfblue

490 mV can not be correct without ozone, or peroxide or permanganate dosing. And if its correct there almost certainly will be bromine, at the point where the probe is. 490 is too high for reef animals and bromine is the same as having bleach in the water.

Realistic ORP values for us without oxidants will be about 270-370. Up to about 400 is possible but for most those last few mV will be probe drift.

I agree.. His ORP probe needs to be calibrated or is defective.

I use ORP but only for trending and alarms via my Apex. I can tell from my ORP if something has gone wrong or died. I don't look at the number as much of an indication unless it changes fast. My number averages 325-350 depending on the time of day.

slief · 01/12/2015, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mylesweaver

I don't use ozone I just have clean water. My water is almost 16 years old. My level started out at around 350 and the cleaner I got it the higher it went. I carbon dose with the skimmer air inlet outside the house getting fresh air I use carbon and gfo and I use coral snow. I feed more than anyone so my bacteria population is most likely very high. I also dose bacteria.most of my rock come in a trash bag from Fiji about 16 years ago and I've yet to smell or see live rock like it. It still had plants and dead crabs on it but it went straight in anyway, no cureing just raw , live , nasty rock. My sand is also about 16 years old some 8" deep some only 6. I've never cleaned it just stirred it up a couple times. No water changes. It's packed from top to bottom with coral and fish. Yes sps do just fine.i have every label of coral in it with a carnation that has spawned about 12 or so baby's

I would suggest getting a new probe and or at least trying to recalibrate your probe. You tank may be stable and very clean but you don't have a true 490 ORP. My tank is very clean as well with a great skimmer, four filter socks, mostly bare bottom, large refugium, 650 gallons of volume and is 20 years old. I've been monitoring ORP for over 15 years now and have even run ozone over the years. Trust me when I tell you, your tank is not at 490 ORP.

tmz · 01/12/2015, 12:14 PM

I have monitored orp daily for the last 6yrs or so ,since I have a meter/contoller which I acquired when contemplating ozone use and then decided not to use ozone . Daily readings run 310 to 350 mv.Never see 400 plus ,rarely a dip under 300.I doubt 490 is accurate . Waht's the nitrate level ?High nitrate can raise orp .Low pH will also raise it? Neither is an indicator of "cleaner" water.

Mylesweaver · 01/12/2015, 12:20 PM

Ok I just cleaned it in fresh water with a toothbrush moved it as far away from my skimmer as I can unplugged it let it settle and it reads 430? My fresh water was reading 550 and climbing.

slief · 01/12/2015, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mylesweaver

Ok I just cleaned it in fresh water with a toothbrush moved it as far away from my skimmer as I can unplugged it let it settle and it reads 430? My fresh water was reading 550 and climbing.

I'm still betting that is not accurate. I would try calibrating.

Mylesweaver · 01/12/2015, 12:32 PM

Back to my question why isn't this monitored more? It's a clear indication of how clean your water is. It's very complex and deep and from my experience the higher the number the better my animals do. When my reading was 350 my tank looked nothing like it does now.

tmz · 01/12/2015, 12:58 PM

High ORP doesn't indicate "cleaner" water or healthier water per se as noted earlier. BTW , I also dose organic carbon and feed very heavily.

Randy Holmes-Farley · 01/12/2015, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mylesweaver

Back to my question why isn't this monitored more? It's a clear indication of how clean your water is. It's very complex and deep and from my experience the higher the number the better my animals do. When my reading was 350 my tank looked nothing like it does now.

I monitored ORP for many years (and wrote articles on ORP and on ozone, etc.), but it just end up not being a very useful number for me.

It is not a sign of clean water, nor is it a sign of "health" of the reef.

It is only directly a sign of the speciation of certain trace metals (like how much of the iron is Fe++ and how much is Fe+++). Indirectly it may be a sign of the organics in the water, and that is what most people relate it to, but one wouldn't (at least I wouldn't) want to strip them all out.

If I add an oxidizer to the water (ozone, hydrogen peroxide, bleach, I2, even Fe+++) the ORP rises. Is the water cleaner? Generally, no.

FWIW, aquaria with refugia often run a lot lower in ORP than similar aquaria without them. But that doesn't mean, IMO, that the refugium is undesirable.

maxpc99 · 01/12/2015, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slief

I agree.. His ORP probe needs to be calibrated or is defective.

I use ORP but only for trending and alarms via my Apex. I can tell from my ORP if something has gone wrong or died. I don't look at the number as much of an indication unless it changes fast. My number averages 325-350 depending on the time of day.

This!

Last September I bought and installed an orp probe. One week later my tank crashes because I foolishly moved my basement sump cheato light (home depot flex hinge shop light) from its safe perch to an overhead floor joist. Of course it fell into the sump and cracked leeching god knows what into the water. I didn't make the discovery for a solid 12 hours, but if I had an ORP alert set up I would have known immediately and would have been able to minimize the damage. ORP dropped from 425 to 200 almost instantly. Net result I lost 50 + sps colonies and frags.

maxpc99 · 01/12/2015, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randy Holmes-Farley

....

FWIW, aquaria with refugia often run a lot lower in ORP than similar aquaria without them. But that doesn't mean, IMO, that the refugium is undesirable.

So this is most likely why my ORP has dropped! I was always in the 420 to 390 range and now I'm low 315 to 285. I never let it bother me, but was in the back of my mind that something was up. I added a 40b fuge with DSB and full of macros.

Why would a fuge have that impact?

Mylesweaver · 01/12/2015, 01:21 PM

I don't like refugiums, I've tried them and don't like the results. I grow bacteria. It's much more efficient and does a better job. If my nitrate and phosfate get high more bacteria live so my orp drops, when my tank is clean ( low nitrate and phosfate) less bacteria live my orp goes up. I believe this number deserves it's place in this hobby.

tmz · 01/12/2015, 01:28 PM

I do both: encourage heterotrophic bacteria via organic carbon dosing bacteria and run a variety of refugia.

Why would a fuge have that impact?

More organics from detritus buildups and algal exudates ;possibly excretions from other fauna like sponges, pods, etc. None of which are necessarily bad things on balance. Nitrogen reduction in a fuge could also have an effect.

Randy Holmes-Farley · 01/12/2015, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mylesweaver

I don't like refugiums, I've tried them and don't like the results. I grow bacteria. It's much more efficient and does a better job. If my nitrate and phosfate get high more bacteria live so my orp drops, when my tank is clean ( low nitrate and phosfate) less bacteria live my orp goes up. I believe this number deserves it's place in this hobby.

Better than what? I grow bacteria too, by dosing vinegar. One of the reasons I have the refugia is to provide a lot of rock surface area (both aerobic and hypoxic) where the bacteria can grow.

FWIW, neither nitrate nor phosphate has an direct impact on ORP, so i don't see how you can judge them to be rising by ORP.

01/11/2015, 10:33 PM	#1
Mylesweaver Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 60	Orp I monitor my orp constantly to see how clean my piece of the reef is. I want to know who else does this and what your numbers are. I think there is a lot to tell about your water by this number and I don't hear a lot about it.

01/12/2015, 10:24 AM	#6
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	I personally skipped using an ORP meter. I don't think they indicate much, except as a safety net when running ozone. This article has more: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-1...ture/index.htm I am skeptical that the 490 mV measurement is accurate. That's rather high, and might indicate that the probe needs to be cleaned or recalibrated. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

01/12/2015, 11:04 AM	#7
wolfblue Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 300	490 mV can not be correct without ozone, or peroxide or permanganate dosing. And if its correct there almost certainly will be bromine, at the point where the probe is. 490 is too high for reef animals and bromine is the same as having bleach in the water. Realistic ORP values for us without oxidants will be about 270-370. Up to about 400 is possible but for most those last few mV will be probe drift. __________________ --John AALSO Level III

01/12/2015, 12:14 PM	#15
tmz ReefKeeping Mag staff Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: West Seneca NY Posts: 27,691	I have monitored orp daily for the last 6yrs or so ,since I have a meter/contoller which I acquired when contemplating ozone use and then decided not to use ozone . Daily readings run 310 to 350 mv.Never see 400 plus ,rarely a dip under 300.I doubt 490 is accurate . Waht's the nitrate level ?High nitrate can raise orp .Low pH will also raise it? Neither is an indicator of "cleaner" water. __________________ Tom Current Tank Info: Tank of the Month , November 2011 : 600gal integrated system: 3 display tanks (120 g, 90g, 89g),several frag/grow out tanks, macroalgae refugia, cryptic zones. 40+ fish, seahorses, sps,lps,leathers, zoanthidae and non photosynthetic corals. Last edited by tmz; 01/12/2015 at 12:21 PM.

01/12/2015, 12:58 PM	#19
tmz ReefKeeping Mag staff Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: West Seneca NY Posts: 27,691	High ORP doesn't indicate "cleaner" water or healthier water per se as noted earlier. BTW , I also dose organic carbon and feed very heavily. __________________ Tom Current Tank Info: Tank of the Month , November 2011 : 600gal integrated system: 3 display tanks (120 g, 90g, 89g),several frag/grow out tanks, macroalgae refugia, cryptic zones. 40+ fish, seahorses, sps,lps,leathers, zoanthidae and non photosynthetic corals.

01/12/2015, 04:10 AM	#2
Mr sea water Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 64	I agree, I like it running around 390-400mv!

01/12/2015, 04:51 AM	#3
viktor72 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 107	I would like to buy orp meter,pen like.but don't know is it worth getting one.

01/12/2015, 10:06 AM	#4
Mylesweaver Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 60	I would say it's a must. Everyone test for nitrate and phosfate but not orp,why? I've been getting my water super clean for about two years now and my orp is climbing. It's now 490. I think there is a direct reflection on how clean your water is. I started with an orp reading of about 350 and now my tank is so clean and clear I hit my nose on the glass all the time.

01/12/2015, 11:27 AM	#8
Greg 45 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bayonne,N.J. Posts: 1,159	After talking to most company's that sell orp and measure orp they state it's only a guide . Need to measure over weeks not daily . I personally don't trust the reading . It will show if something dies not true also . In my 1200 gallon system it's a toy that's all.

01/12/2015, 11:41 AM	#10
Mylesweaver Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 60	I don't use ozone I just have clean water. My water is almost 16 years old. My level started out at around 350 and the cleaner I got it the higher it went. I carbon dose with the skimmer air inlet outside the house getting fresh air I use carbon and gfo and I use coral snow. I feed more than anyone so my bacteria population is most likely very high. I also dose bacteria.most of my rock come in a trash bag from Fiji about 16 years ago and I've yet to smell or see live rock like it. It still had plants and dead crabs on it but it went straight in anyway, no cureing just raw , live , nasty rock. My sand is also about 16 years old some 8" deep some only 6. I've never cleaned it just stirred it up a couple times. No water changes. It's packed from top to bottom with coral and fish. Yes sps do just fine.i have every label of coral in it with a carnation that has spawned about 12 or so baby's

01/12/2015, 11:46 AM	#11
Mylesweaver Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 60	If you have to change your water to clean it your filter it not working. If your water is clean your orp will read high

01/12/2015, 11:48 AM	#12
Mylesweaver Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 60	I've been monitoring this reading for two years

01/12/2015, 12:20 PM	#16
Mylesweaver Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 60	Ok I just cleaned it in fresh water with a toothbrush moved it as far away from my skimmer as I can unplugged it let it settle and it reads 430? My fresh water was reading 550 and climbing.

01/12/2015, 12:32 PM	#18
Mylesweaver Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 60	Back to my question why isn't this monitored more? It's a clear indication of how clean your water is. It's very complex and deep and from my experience the higher the number the better my animals do. When my reading was 350 my tank looked nothing like it does now.

01/12/2015, 01:21 PM	#23
Mylesweaver Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 60	I don't like refugiums, I've tried them and don't like the results. I grow bacteria. It's much more efficient and does a better job. If my nitrate and phosfate get high more bacteria live so my orp drops, when my tank is clean ( low nitrate and phosfate) less bacteria live my orp goes up. I believe this number deserves it's place in this hobby.

01/12/2015, 01:28 PM	#24
tmz ReefKeeping Mag staff Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: West Seneca NY Posts: 27,691	I do both: encourage heterotrophic bacteria via organic carbon dosing bacteria and run a variety of refugia. Why would a fuge have that impact? More organics from detritus buildups and algal exudates ;possibly excretions from other fauna like sponges, pods, etc. None of which are necessarily bad things on balance. Nitrogen reduction in a fuge could also have an effect. __________________ Tom Current Tank Info: Tank of the Month , November 2011 : 600gal integrated system: 3 display tanks (120 g, 90g, 89g),several frag/grow out tanks, macroalgae refugia, cryptic zones. 40+ fish, seahorses, sps,lps,leathers, zoanthidae and non photosynthetic corals.