Ammonia being caused by sump?

itz frank · 01/12/2015, 09:09 PM

I've been battling ammonia issues since setting up my tank. It shouldn't be cycling because the tank was set up when I bought it.

Could the sand or sponge that separated the fuge from return pump be causing my .25 ammonia issue?

FraggledRock · 01/12/2015, 09:11 PM

how long has it been setup?

and what you mean was set up when you bought it?

did you buy a tank with water and live rock and transport if from a LFS into your home already filled?

and what is this sponge you speak of?

itz frank · 01/12/2015, 09:13 PM

Set up a week in my home. Bought a complete tank from someone on here. Livestock and dry goods complete.

The sponge is between two baffles that seperate the Refugium area and the return.

FraggledRock · 01/12/2015, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itz frank

Set up a week in my home. Bought a complete tank from someone on here. Livestock and dry goods complete.

The sponge is between two baffles that seperate the Refugium area and the return.

you still have a LONG way to go before your ammonia starts to be broken down into nitrites.

If you have fish in there what is happening is they are pooping more than the bacteria is growing to break it down.

its about a month before the bacteria forms enough to handle the ammonia and turn it into nitrites.

I used DR TIMS Nitrifying bacteria bottle to kick start it, what are you using to start the cycle? Shrimp pieces? fish food?

you may want to do some water changes if you have fish in there to not cause damage to the fish with ammonia spiking.

that sponge thing is giving me a red flag in my mind.

do you have a pic of it?

what is its purpose?

itz frank · 01/12/2015, 09:17 PM

The tank was housing live stock. The rock should be cycled.

morleyz · 01/12/2015, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itz frank

Set up a week in my home. Bought a complete tank from someone on here. Livestock and dry goods complete.

The sponge is between two baffles that seperate the Refugium area and the return.

Did you break down a running tank, move it to your house, and immediately (or at least in the same day) set it back up or was it broken down for some time before you set it up?

itz frank · 01/12/2015, 09:18 PM

itz frank · 01/12/2015, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morleyz

Did you break down a running tank, move it to your house, and immediately (or at least in the same day) set it back up or was it broken down for some time before you set it up?

It was broken down and out back up. Only thing I changed was live sand added. He was bare bottom. The fish I gave away except for a royal gamma which is in qt

FraggledRock · 01/12/2015, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itz frank

If that is chaeto (might be cualerpa) that wont cause the ammonia. IF food and poop is getting caught in the sponge (which seems like it is) that will harbor the food and slow the breakdown process a bit.

Is the sponge there to slow down the water flow into the refugium? I would try running it without.

morleyz · 01/12/2015, 09:23 PM

Your live rock, etc. should have survived the trip with minimal die off, but there could be a small ammonia spike from detritus being stirred up out of the rocks, etc.

How long have you been seeing ammonia? Are you seeing nitrites? Is your test kit new?

itz frank · 01/12/2015, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FraggledRock

If that is chaeto (might be cualerpa) that wont cause the ammonia. IF food and poop is getting caught in the sponge (which seems like it is) that will harbor the food and slow the breakdown process a bit.

Is the sponge there to slow down the water flow into the refugium? I would try running it without.

Well, the sponge wasn't cleaned after being broken down not the sump. So there may be food and what not from it being set up. It seems to be there to stop the cheato from ending up in the return.

itz frank · 01/12/2015, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morleyz

Your live rock, etc. should have survived the trip with minimal die off, but there could be a small ammonia spike from detritus being stirred up out of the rocks, etc.

How long have you been seeing ammonia? Are you seeing nitrites? Is your test kit new?

It's only ammonia and at least for 4 days. Nitrites and nitrates are zero. Tested fresh water and came up with zero ammonia.

FraggledRock · 01/12/2015, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itz frank

Well, the sponge wasn't cleaned after being broken down not the sump. So there may be food and what not from it being set up. It seems to be there to stop the cheato from ending up in the return.

is there a way to add another baffle to keep the chaeto from flowing out and remove the sponge?

itz frank · 01/12/2015, 09:47 PM

Well, is the sponge causing my ammonia?

FraggledRock · 01/13/2015, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itz frank

Well, is the sponge causing my ammonia?

Run a test.

Take it out for a week or so and see where your Ammonia levels are at.

If they lowered, then that was part of the problem =)

Good luck!

itz frank · 01/14/2015, 08:52 AM

retested again today and the ammonia levels do appear to be dropping. not sure if coincidence or it was the cause. oh well.

FraggledRock · 01/14/2015, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itz frank

retested again today and the ammonia levels do appear to be dropping. not sure if coincidence or it was the cause. oh well.

Yea like i said, it may be a coincidence to drop doing the removal or it may have been culprit, but at-least it is dropping now!

You are now a marine biologist and everything is hypothesizing / theorizing and testing! =P

Good luck!

Orbela · 01/15/2015, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itz frank

It was broken down and out back up. Only thing I changed was live sand added. He was bare bottom. The fish I gave away except for a royal gamma which is in qt

He added live sand. That is a red flag this most likely the source of your ammonia spike. The sand bed is cycling

itz frank · 01/15/2015, 02:51 PM

It still is persisting but I am getting no nitrites or nitrates.

JerseyGuy · 01/15/2015, 03:16 PM

I have two observations for you.

First, I bet that sponge/chaeto mass is packed full of detritus and who knows what else (nothing good I assure you) I'd ditch it. It certainly isn't helping anything.

Second, stirring up any tank could cause an ammonia spike, but if it's a fully cycled tank it should be converting it into nitrite/nitrate fairly quickly. I'm not sure why you're still seeing ammonia and you haven't seen a nitrite/nitrate spike.

You may want to get a new test kit and make sure your readings are right.

Orbela · 01/15/2015, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itz frank

It still is persisting but I am getting no nitrites or nitrates.

You added live sand it's cycling that's your main problem not the sponge it will create nitrate but I doubt it will create ammonia
Add prime with water changes and just wait to cycle and hope your fish don't have any adverse effect. Nitrite don't want to worry about it in saltwater fish. Just keep watching the ammonia.

Crooked Reef · 01/15/2015, 05:54 PM

Probably the live sand but I am assuming you are using an API test kit? They have a tendency of being a but off. Mine registered .25 all the time. Test with a different kit or have your lfs test. Your kit could be bad.

Dapg8gt · 01/15/2015, 06:09 PM

Easy way to rule it out.. Clean the thing fully and put it back in.. It's going to need to be cleaned all the time to not be a nitrate sink regardless so get used to it =)..

Also if your rock was out of the water on the trip you will definitely have some sort of cycle. The longer it was dry the longer the cycle..

itz frank · 01/15/2015, 08:33 PM

Live rock was wet the whole trip. It did sit out for a few hours while I laid down some aquascape on cardboard.

itz frank · 01/17/2015, 07:24 AM

.15pm ammonia
5ppm nitrate
0ppm nitrite.

01/12/2015, 09:09 PM	#1
itz frank Gives Bad Advice. Join Date: May 2006 Location: Ft Lauderdale, FL Posts: 2,168	Ammonia being caused by sump? I've been battling ammonia issues since setting up my tank. It shouldn't be cycling because the tank was set up when I bought it. Could the sand or sponge that separated the fuge from return pump be causing my .25 ammonia issue?

01/12/2015, 09:11 PM	#2
FraggledRock Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: New York, New York Posts: 2,185	how long has it been setup? and what you mean was set up when you bought it? did you buy a tank with water and live rock and transport if from a LFS into your home already filled? and what is this sponge you speak of? __________________ “For most of history, man has had to fight nature to survive; in this century he is beginning to realize that, in order to survive, he must protect it.”― Jacques-Yves Cousteau MarineBio.org Current Tank Info: 40 Gallon Breeder w/ Bean Animal Overflow 20G Sump, Mixed Reef.

01/12/2015, 09:23 PM	#10
morleyz Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Crystal Lake, IL Posts: 304	Your live rock, etc. should have survived the trip with minimal die off, but there could be a small ammonia spike from detritus being stirred up out of the rocks, etc. How long have you been seeing ammonia? Are you seeing nitrites? Is your test kit new? __________________ -jeff

01/15/2015, 05:54 PM	#22
Crooked Reef Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 1,765	Probably the live sand but I am assuming you are using an API test kit? They have a tendency of being a but off. Mine registered .25 all the time. Test with a different kit or have your lfs test. Your kit could be bad. __________________ “In wine there is wisdom; in beer there is freedom, in water there is bacteria.” - Benjamin Franklin Current Tank Info: 90 gallon reef. Biocube 29 lionfish tank. Mantis tank.

01/15/2015, 06:09 PM	#23
Dapg8gt Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Pacifica Posts: 3,741	Easy way to rule it out.. Clean the thing fully and put it back in.. It's going to need to be cleaned all the time to not be a nitrate sink regardless so get used to it =).. Also if your rock was out of the water on the trip you will definitely have some sort of cycle. The longer it was dry the longer the cycle.. __________________ 15 years in the hobby yet still learning every day. 280g radium lit sps flat living in my garage rent free. Current Tank Info: 105g SPS dominant euro braced powered by 4 ecotech pumps and lit by an ATI powermodule controlled by a reef angel =).

01/12/2015, 09:13 PM	#3
itz frank Gives Bad Advice. Join Date: May 2006 Location: Ft Lauderdale, FL Posts: 2,168	Set up a week in my home. Bought a complete tank from someone on here. Livestock and dry goods complete. The sponge is between two baffles that seperate the Refugium area and the return.

01/12/2015, 09:17 PM	#5
itz frank Gives Bad Advice. Join Date: May 2006 Location: Ft Lauderdale, FL Posts: 2,168	The tank was housing live stock. The rock should be cycled.

01/12/2015, 09:18 PM	#7
itz frank Gives Bad Advice. Join Date: May 2006 Location: Ft Lauderdale, FL Posts: 2,168

01/12/2015, 09:47 PM	#14
itz frank Gives Bad Advice. Join Date: May 2006 Location: Ft Lauderdale, FL Posts: 2,168	Well, is the sponge causing my ammonia?

01/14/2015, 08:52 AM	#16
itz frank Gives Bad Advice. Join Date: May 2006 Location: Ft Lauderdale, FL Posts: 2,168	retested again today and the ammonia levels do appear to be dropping. not sure if coincidence or it was the cause. oh well.

01/15/2015, 02:51 PM	#19
itz frank Gives Bad Advice. Join Date: May 2006 Location: Ft Lauderdale, FL Posts: 2,168	It still is persisting but I am getting no nitrites or nitrates.

01/15/2015, 03:16 PM	#20
JerseyGuy Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 63	I have two observations for you. First, I bet that sponge/chaeto mass is packed full of detritus and who knows what else (nothing good I assure you) I'd ditch it. It certainly isn't helping anything. Second, stirring up any tank could cause an ammonia spike, but if it's a fully cycled tank it should be converting it into nitrite/nitrate fairly quickly. I'm not sure why you're still seeing ammonia and you haven't seen a nitrite/nitrate spike. You may want to get a new test kit and make sure your readings are right.

01/15/2015, 08:33 PM	#24
itz frank Gives Bad Advice. Join Date: May 2006 Location: Ft Lauderdale, FL Posts: 2,168	Live rock was wet the whole trip. It did sit out for a few hours while I laid down some aquascape on cardboard.

01/17/2015, 07:24 AM	#25
itz frank Gives Bad Advice. Join Date: May 2006 Location: Ft Lauderdale, FL Posts: 2,168	.15pm ammonia 5ppm nitrate 0ppm nitrite.