Persistent Bacteria Bloom

[Syntax1325]

I'm putting this in the Advanced Section because I hope that it is read and only replied to by highly experienced reef aquarists. Maybe this will serve as a thread to help others, like me, who have exhausted the internet looking for answers and still can't fix the issue.

I have a 6 month 125 gallon reef tank with a 40 gallon sump. I'm using a Aquamax C0-2 skimmer and have about a volleyball's worth of chaeto. I have about 120 lbs of live rock that was completely dead (bleach and muriatic acid prep) and about 90 lbs of Carib Sea Ocean's Direct mixed grain sand.

Parameters:

Salinity: 35 (refractometer) (aquavitro salinity)
PH: 8.1 (api)
CA: 420 (sali)
ALK: 9.3 (rock steady with kalk in ATO) (sali)
MAG 1300 (sali)
p04: .03-.04 (RS)
Nitrate: 0 (Api)
Nitrite: 0 (api)
Ammonia: 0 (api)

I currently have many sps frags and a few lps, one bta, deresa and 14 fish ranging from 3 red spot cardinals to a 3" fox face. Most fish are between 2-3"

Maintenance:

Weekly 12-15 gallon water changes with turkey baster for rocks... I don't vacuum the sand. The skimmate is cream colored and has clumpy strands of bacteria.

I woke up on December 20 to find that my tank was a little cloudy and milky white.... Corals were fully extended and most looked fine. My BTA was closed and only opened up for about 1/2 the day and it didn't open up full, One part of my symposium was closed (and is still closed) and my Deresa was only partially open (more open now).

Up to that point I was feeding between 2-3 times a day: frozen PE Mysis, Hikari Brine/spirulina and a half cube of cyclopeeze with selcon. Corals had really nice colors and I had a fair a consistent film of algae in about 2 days after cleaning the front glass. Once the bloom happened, ALL algae disappeared and corals paled quite a bit in just a couple of days. I have lost about 60% of my clean up crew snails, I assume because the tank was bare of algae. Many went into my overflow box and died and I had no idea they were dead... I pulled out only shells. I've lost about 18 turbo snails and some margarita snails of which the majority rotted in the tank... Even with them dying I never got a nutrient spike and didn't see any algae. I ha.ve reduced feeding to only rinsed PE Mysis and selcon 2-3 times a day... about a 1 1/2 cubes (I use the sheet of Mysis).

The following weekend I was able to borrow a small UV (9w). I was skeptical but installed it before I went to bed and the water was crystal clear the next morning. Coral colors still were very pale and since the bloom was gone I turned the UV off.... it came back in about 24 hours 9I've tried turning it off several times and the bloom comes back in about 36 hours). Most corals look great except the ones I mentioned above. It has been this way for almost a month.

A couple of weeks ago I decided to vacuum my sand bed which varies in depth from bare glass to about 2.5 inches due to the powerheads. I have been vacuuming the sand bed very carefully in small sections for the past two weeks... the only difference I notice is that I now have algae growing on the glass and a little on the rocks. There seems to be a slight diatom bloom on the sand as well, but it's not very bad. I also have been running the UV 24/7 since that point and the water still has been clear.

Today, most corals have their color coming back except I have a mariculture acro that has almost fully stn'd and part of my symposium is still closed. All fish have looked great throughout this entire ordeal without any signs of stress.

I noticed this morning that there was white mucus collecting on the surface at the first baffle of the sump... it looked just like mucus and didn't have any odor, scooped it up with a net... I see very tiny strands of bacteria growing on the rocks, but they are tiny.


Odd things that I have noticed:

I saw some almost clear mucus like substance floating around (size of a dime or nickel) sporadically about 3 weeks before the bloom, I assume it was bacteria floating, but it could have been the foxface shedding?

I get this mucusy discharge from my returns whenever I restart my pump after a water change. These pieces are range from tiny strands to pieces about the size of a mysis shrimp... tons of them. They only exit the return and drain when the pump is stopped and then started.

The tank looks ok now; however, the bacteria is still present and growing on the rocks a little. I have no doubt that if I were to turn off the uv that the water would cloud within 48 hours.

I am now running a 2/3 phospban 150 reactor with Matrix carbon and using filter socks.

How do I get rid of this problem? My tank doesn't look horrible, but it not's right either. I started stocking this tank very slowly and since things were going so well I added more fish quicker.

I'm hoping that the tank will eventually find a balance and it will clear up once again. I have a feeling that using 100% dead rock and bagged live sand and stocking my tank fairly full in 6 months are the cause of the problem.... I'm not sure this would of happened if I used nicely seasoned live rock.

When I look at my tank now I notice coralline algae is starting to take hold on the rock s and the colors of my corals are coming back... but all is not well with this bacteria that is still growing.

Thoughts?

[dinonightmare]

Thank you for the details included. Could you post some pictures of this clear mucus and the strands of bacteria?

[jimrawr]

are you carbon dosing?

[Syntax1325]

Originally Posted by dinonightmare

Thank you for the details included. Could you post some pictures of this clear mucus and the strands of bacteria?

I'll try to get some pictures posted soon. The mucus will be easy to get pictures of since it collects in the sump at inlet of the first baffle right up against the second.

[Syntax1325]

Originally Posted by jimrawr

are you carbon dosing?

I'm not carbon dosing; however, I did open up an old bourbon barrel in my basement (the tank is on the floor above) and the smell of bourbon was VERY strong and permeated the entire house... that was two days before the bloom.

I thought that the bourbon somehow was strong enough to get picked up by the skimmer but then dismissed the idea since it has been almost a month and the bloom is still there.

I forgot to add that to my original post, thanks for asking the question.

[Syntax1325]

Here's a picture of some of the strands sticking to a powerhead.

[Syntax1325]

picture isn't good but it shows some of the growth.

[Syntax1325]

Here's a picture of the mucus forming near the baffle... There a film close to the chaeto and the stuff with bubbles is part of it as well. This growth is about after 12 hours.

[2_zoa]

I remember reading an article about room air fresheners. Coral mag I believe? The glade plug in type, causing a bacterial bloom in a tank in a dentist office. I don't recall the specifics, just enough to think it was interesting.

Do you have any air fresheners in the room or close by?


I'm just throwing this out there to maybe spark up some ideas. I hate seeing tanks struggle.

[Syntax1325]

My wife will burn an occasional candle, but it doesn't happen often and nothing that seems to coincide with this issue. I also had a 29g set up for almost a year before this and never had an issue with bacteria. Thank you for the troubleshooting help.

[doctorwhoreefer]

Interesting concept, air delivery of carbon dosing.. Not much you could do other than some water changes I would think.

[Dan_P]

Bacterial blooms like you describe seem to be associated with carbon dosing rather than overfeeding. Pictures posted of these sorts blooms show white slime or white gelatinous lumps. The stuff you see floating around after starting up the recirculation are the bacteria that live on the lining of the pipes. Their presence might not be related to the ones causing the cloudiness. But if you have strong bacteria growth causing heavy colonies to fall away from the pipe surfaces, the two events might be related even though they are different species.

So, where is the carbon coming from? Two thoughts. Coral produce slime. Could that be the carbon source. The forum's coral experts might comment on coral slime as a bacteria food source. The other carbon source is macro algae, They also produce sugar polymer slime and other organics for protection.

Excessive bacteria growth can deoxygenate the water and might be connected to snail mortality.

Probiotics seems to be curing everything these days. Maybe a course of Dr. Tim's or some other bacteria mix could help. There are quite a few forum members who have used these products for a variety of reasons.

Good luck!

[Syntax1325]

Wow Dan P! You have definitely gave me some things to think about. I personally have never heard or read chaeto causing problems in a tank, maybe I'll cut back my chaeto and see if the condition improves? It can't hurt to try. I've never used chaeto before. The first time I tried growing it in this tank it g rew well for a couple of weeks then died. I waited a month or so and tried it again, I put a lemon sized ball and it is now the size of a soccer ball or maybe even larger and is very healthy.

I have not noticed any sliming of the corals. Most of the corals are frags and are a good distance from each other.

The snail deaths are perplexing. The fish are 100% fine and are acting normal so I'm not sure if low oxygen levels are an issue. I think my skimmer is putting enough oxygen in the water to avoid that issue. My water is crystal clear as long as I am running the UV.... I've vacuumed my sand and have blown off my rocks so there's really no place for nutrients/carbon to hide and feed this bacteria.

I plumbed my skimmer air intake outside via a nearby window to try to eliminate any household triggers.

Thank you for you thoughtful reply, very much appreciated.

[rholguin]

I had this happen in my tank when I set up a couple of months ago. About 8 months ago to be exact. I used macro rock and dead sand. The tank was doing great during the cycling period. As soon as I added a pair of fishes and cuc I began with bacteria bloom. Mucus and cloudy water. I tried everything from uv to an air purifier. Did big and small water changes only for it to come back within 24 hrs. I finally read a thread somewhere else about someone using Dr Tim's bacteria. I used the bacteria as per directions and I finally began winning the battle. I finished the bottle and it's been 2 months since I finished the bottle and bloom is gone and have crystal clear water. I think it's worth a try.
Just my 2 cents.
Good luck.

[Syntax1325]

rholguin,

I used a bottle of Dr. Tims to help cycle my tank, it was his "All-in-One". Is this what you are referring too? There is another product that I have read that looks promising, "Waste Away". Which one did you use? Thanks for your reply.

[Dan_P]

Originally Posted by dsovetsky

rholguin,

I used a bottle of Dr. Tims to help cycle my tank, it was his "All-in-One". Is this what you are referring too? There is another product that I have read that looks promising, "Waste Away". Which one did you use? Thanks for your reply.

I did not use it myself but have read on this forum that members have started there tanks with Dr. Tim's which sounds like "All-in-One". The waste away product seems to be aimed at systems with built up organics or suffering from cyanobacteria.

I would suggest that we wait for more comments or maybe it would be faster to post the question "about probiotics to stop a bacterial bloom". You will get some folks saying to just wait it out which is a reasonable option.

[myram]

I found this info on another thread about cloudy water from bacteria bloom.

"There are a few 100% natural products out there for clearing cloudy water.

The one I could recommend is Dr. Tim's Clear-Up. That stuff works wonders for cloudiness and is all natural.

The thing with UV is it will clear the water, but may kill some free floating bacteria that you may want to have, whereas the Clear-Up does not kill beneficial bacteria at all and instead just clears the water by having a different bacteria out compete the ones causing the cloud.

Here's some info: http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/cloudy-aquarium-water"

Sounds like some good info.

[rholguin]

Yes. It was the all in one.

[Syntax1325]

I have discovered what I am dealing with; an airborne bacteria that is associated with alcohol called Alcaligenes faecalis. This is a nasty bacteria that produces the white slime that resulted in the coral problems that I am currently experiencing, it's nasty stuff. I've been in contact with Dr. Tim's who have been very helpful in troubleshooting this issue. I was instructed to view three articles from coral magazine that dealt with the exact issue I am dealing with. They were perplexed at this issue as well at first; however, they have developed a way of attacking this aggressive and acidic bacteria. I'm going all in and putting the health of my tank in their hands, seeing that they have seen this bacteria before and have eradicated it from tanks in the past.

I'm going to start with their Refresh product, 2 half doses and then several 1/4 doses of waste away. The treatment should take about 3 weeks to a month. I'll keep this thread updated throughout the treatment.

I hope to have good news to report throughout. Thank you to those who have contributed your thoughtful responses. I'm hopeful that I can eradicate this bacteria, it is definitely having a detrimental effect on the snails and corals in the tank.

If you are interested in reading more about this bacteria, check this link out: http://www.coralmagazine-us.com/cont...ite-reef-slime
Stay tuned.

[Quiet_Ivy]

Originally Posted by dsovetsky

I have discovered what I am dealing with; an airborne bacteria that is associated with alcohol called Alcaligenes faecalis. This is a nasty bacteria that produces the white slime that resulted in the coral problems that I am currently experiencing, it's nasty stuff.

Been following this thread with interest. Wow. Were you dosing alcohol? Hopefully the treatment will clear up your tank!

ivy

[Syntax1325]

No dosing in the tank besides Kalk... please see your PM for a more detailed explanation. I also hope it clears the tank. At this point, I have tried everything and am willing to trust Dr. Tim's. I was very impressed with their customer support, I referred the tech to this thread and by his responses it was very obvious that he read it thoroughly as he referenced very specific points in his reply's to me. My fingers are crossed.

[Syntax1325]

Here's a short update:

I have dosed 2 half doses of refresh, one on Jan. 23rd and the second on the 25th. My UV has stayed off since the first dose and I'm happy to report that my tank water has stayed clear, the slime has reduced about 50% off the power heads and rocks. The corals that seem to have been negatively affected by this bacterial strain are starting to show signs of improvement; however, it's very slow. The symposium is still closed but you can see a little bit of color in the polyps, they are very close to opening.

My current plan is to dose a 1/4 dose of waste away every other day until the tank gets back to normal. I'll dose 1/4 dose and keep the skimmer off for 2 hours. Apparently Waste Away contains an aggressive bacterial strain that outcompetes the bad bacteria and breaks it down before it can be used as food.

So, the big question: Is the Refresh working? I'd like to think so, but I can't eliminate the possibility that this nasty bacterial cycle hasn't subsided on its own. Regardless, I'm going to administer this treatment until the tank has completely recovered.

I'll update later.

[rholguin]

So the dosing schedule is something Dr Tim's adviced you or are you following the instructions on the bottle?

[jsweese]

Originally Posted by dsovetsky

I have discovered what I am dealing with; an airborne bacteria that is associated with alcohol called Alcaligenes faecalis. This is a nasty bacteria that produces the white slime that resulted in the coral problems that I am currently experiencing, it's nasty stuff.

Why do you think you are dealing with Alcaligenes? It's a common environmental bacterium (not airborne) so I'm curious about how it was implicated as the cause. It's a mucus-associated bacterium, in the way that it's commonly found living within the mucus layer secreted by some corals, but that doesn't mean it was causing the slime production.

As a denitrifying bacterium, if you actually had an increase in A. faecalis, problems that occurred in the tank would more likely be a result of what was driving the A. faecalis increase (increased bioburden leading to increased nitrate) than a direct effect of that bacterium.

[Syntax1325]

Originally Posted by rholguin

So the dosing schedule is something Dr Tim's adviced you or are you following the instructions on the bottle?

I'm dosing the products as advised by Dr. Tims instructions given to me by the person who was working on my case through their website.