Inventronics LED Drivers -- Yes or No?

[beolson25]

Has anyone heard much about the Inventronics Constant Current drivers for LEDs? The thing I really like about it is that it provides the 10v source for the dimming. So ... less extra plugs and such.

They have a huge assortment of drivers... Link to a data sheet provided below. I attached the ones that are driving 1.05 amps since I am running XT-Es on my current build. I will probably keep them dimmed as needed. They have a lot of different Amp models and Voltage ranges.

I'd like to hear from anyone who has used them and also if anyone has any thoughts on the comparison to meanwell.

120 Watt Documentation -- multiple models defined in document(I used 1.05 Amp, 68-114 Volt)
http://www.inventronics-co.com/uploa...9452708011.PDF

[mcgyvr]

Never used one because I am more than happy with the quality/price of Meanwell.. but have heard of others using them without problems..
They are UL recognized so I wouldn't be concerned..

[Nano sapiens]

I've been using two of the 25W Inventronic units with POTS for over a year on my nano tank and they have been great so far.

[ghellin]

No they are Chinese garbage and put out dangerous current over 48V DC. Go with Meanwell ELN's or LDD drivers.

[mcgyvr]

Originally Posted by ghellin

put out dangerous current over 48V DC.

Care to explain that statement?
Is your complaint that they offer drivers with output voltages above SELV (safety extra low voltage) levels?

[ghellin]

48v DC is safe to work with. Some drivers that are used to run strings usually larger than 14 3 watt LEDs in series are getting into a dangerous high DC voltage area. But in hindsight I think I actually was thinking of the Maxwellen drivers not the inventronics. So my apologies.

But to your point I completely agree why not Mean well due to price and known quality.

[oreo57]

Originally Posted by ghellin

48v DC is safe to work with. Some drivers that are used to run strings usually larger than 14 3 watt LEDs in series are getting into a dangerous high DC voltage area.

They make some truly "kick but " DC drivers..

1050 mA 90 ~ 305 Vac 68~114Vdc
1400 mA 90 ~ 305 Vac 52~86 Vdc

[mcgyvr]

Originally Posted by oreo57

They make some truly "kick but " DC drivers..

I just want to point out that one cannot fault a company because they make products for experience levels above hobbiest/newbie.
Nothing wrong with DC voltage levels above 48VDC provided you are aware of the dangers and precautions that should be taken..

I would never randomly recommend those high voltage drivers on this forum though as the newbies are watching ..

[yeldarbj]

I've used the Inventronics 700ma, 40w drivers for several years. Great drivers and company. I have 6 of them. I had one fail after a few months, and the customer service immediately replaced it. I highly recommend them.

[beolson25]

Wow ... I had no responses yesterday and overnight everyone jumped in. I appreciate all of the feedback. I actually have a bachelors in Computer and Electrical engineering so I understand electricity and its dangers. **Note ... Although I have electrical engineering background I will still look up the dangers and extra precautions that I need to take over 48 V DC since that is not something I am fully aware of. So ... I'll be checking that out. I'm not too worried though since I will take the appropriate precautions.

That being said the one thing people didn't address when using the Meanwell drivers is that you have to have a separate 10V source for dimming. I understand that is not a huge deal but as we all know in the aquarium world those extra outlet spaces are at a premium without a large number of splitters.

P.S. I have been working with their technical support on making sure I got the correctly sized potentiometers and they have been fantastic.

I will look up the dangers of the 48 + V DC and probably try to come back here and post. It seems strange to me that over 48 V DC is a huge deal when really it is the amperage that kills. But ... As I stated I am certainly no expert in this area ...

[oreo57]

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

I just want to point out that one cannot fault a company because they make products for experience levels above hobbiest/newbie.
Nothing wrong with DC voltage levels above 48VDC provided you are aware of the dangers and precautions that should be taken..

I would never randomly recommend those high voltage drivers on this forum though as the newbies are watching ..

Understood..
Fun o/t albeit at times morbid discussion of this topic..
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...come-dangerous

[jedimasterben]

Why do people still want analog drivers is my question.

[ghellin]

I agree go LDD.

[beolson25]

So ... I did an initial look over the concerns and ... well ... I don't see 114V being too far off being electrocuted by a 48 V DC at the same current. The current numbers that can cause your heart to stop is less than 20 mA. that is .020 Amps ... vs the 700 mA or 1050 mA we are talking about here. So ... .020 Amps can kill you and we in the aquarium world work(usually) between .5-1 Amps which is WAY over the lethal level ... That doesn't mean you will die no matter what and there are a lot of factors that increase/decrease the likelihood of major injury. That being said the higher voltage could really only be a problem with Arcing. The higher the voltage the higher the chance of Arcing.

So ... although I can't say 48 vs 114(my max voltage in my design) is the same I don't think there is that much of an increase in probability of injury between the two. The real issue is that the Current is so high.

I would argue that the 120 Volt AC is probably a similar danger and since we all have to wire the Three prong outlet connector there is a similar danger level. ***Note ... it is said that the DC can be more dangerous in a sense that it creates the "Can't Let Go" reaction which is very true.

My main point is ...
1) Don't have the thing plugged in while you are fooling around with wiring.
2) Make sure that you have done a good job of soldering and connecting the connections so they don't accidentally come loose.

As stated above ... I think that anyone without experience in Electricity and Electrical circuits should take extra caution and maybe consider another route.

I really appreciate the feedback on the Inventronics. It seems like some people have used them and they are a quality product but that people should consider using more lower voltage drivers if they are at all uncomfortable with the higher voltages.

I was extremely happy to find 2 drivers that would power all of my LEDs vs having to have 4,5,...,10 drivers ... I like the idea of sizing appropriately.


Any feedback is still very welcomed.

[beolson25]

Originally Posted by jedimasterben

Why do people still want analog drivers is my question.

Can you tell me the benefit of having digital vs analog in this case? Assuming I am not using a controller and using potentiometers? I assume that the control is more expensive.

[jedimasterben]

Originally Posted by beolson25

Can you tell me the benefit of having digital vs analog in this case? Assuming I am not using a controller and using potentiometers? I assume that the control is more expensive.

If you only want manual control, that is one thing, but otherwise DC-DC digital drivesrs dim lower, are much more efficient, and much cheaper to implement if you want more than one or two channels of control.

[beolson25]

Originally Posted by jedimasterben

If you only want manual control, that is one thing, but otherwise DC-DC digital drivesrs dim lower, are much more efficient, and much cheaper to implement if you want more than one or two channels of control.

Makes sense ...

Although I'm not sure about cheaper in my situation since you would have to add the cost of the controllers and such. The nice thing about these Inventronics and probably some others is that they can take a resistor input or a 10V input for dimming. So that will allow me to add a Reef Keeper ALC setup in the future if I make the decision.

[jedimasterben]

Originally Posted by beolson25

Makes sense ...

Although I'm not sure about cheaper in my situation since you would have to add the cost of the controllers and such. The nice thing about these Inventronics and probably some others is that they can take a resistor input or a 10V input for dimming. So that will allow me to add a Reef Keeper ALC setup in the future if I make the decision.

You can get a controller that doesn't suck (eg, only does 0-100% dimming for the time you set and nothing else) for cheaper than the ALC.

[beolson25]

Originally Posted by jedimasterben

You can get a controller that doesn't suck (eg, only does 0-100% dimming for the time you set and nothing else) for cheaper than the ALC.

LOL ... VERY good point. Haha ... I'll have to think that one through when that time comes. I already have the Reef Keeper Lite.

[oreo57]

Originally Posted by beolson25

LOL ... VERY good point. Haha ... I'll have to think that one through when that time comes. I already have the Reef Keeper Lite.

A cheap 4 channel "commercial" PWM controller is from $50-$65 dollars.. coupled w/ 4 LDD's ($7 each)
You total expense for 4channel "command and control is $78 to start..
Of course you need to add a PS.
compare that to 4 "stand alone" analog drivers..Except for the very cheap flee bay open frame types I bet your costs will be fairly equiv.. w/in 25%..

[beolson25]

Originally Posted by oreo57

A cheap 4 channel "commercial" PWM controller is from $50-$65 dollars.. coupled w/ 4 LDD's ($7 each)
You total expense for 4channel "command and control is $78 to start..
Of course you need to add a PS.
compare that to 4 "stand alone" analog drivers..Except for the very cheap flee bay open frame types I bet your costs will be fairly equiv.. w/in 25%..

I spent $132 on the two drivers and lets call it $5 for the pots. So ... $137 with a total capacity of 114 V + 72 V = 186 Volts. So that is comparable to 4 LDD-1000HW or LDD-1000H(@ 7.25 each = 29). I would argue if you are going to use this that you should probably buy the 4 driver board(optional $15). The PS on Rapid LED is $50 and would work fine. Plus you said the controller costs $50-65 ... lets call it $55.

So ... mine is $137
and... your is $134 - $149(with optional board)

So ... Yeah very comparable. The nice thing about my scenario for the LDD drivers is that the power supply still has an extra ~150 watts of available power. The downside, in my opinion, is that there is more wiring to do and for my exact situation (20 White, 30 Blue) LEDs I would either have to combine the blue and white strings somehow or I would need more than 4 LDD drivers since the 1 LDD would only handle 13 of the whites and the other 3 would handle the 30 blues. So I would have to add another one and then to make it neat I'd have to buy another mounting board. 2LDDs for White + 3LDDs for blue = 5 total LDDs. Not a huge deal.


Again ... I think they are very close ...

[mcgyvr]

Originally Posted by beolson25

So ... I did an initial look over the concerns and ... well ... I don't see 114V being too far off being electrocuted by a 48 V DC at the same current.................

While yes it is the current that kills BUT
in this situation the danger is the increased voltage level being able to overcome the resistance of human skin and allow the shock to transfer around the human body..

I work in an industry where physical contact with 48V bus bars carrying high current (thousands of amps) happens all the time with no real danger.
Making contact with your hand is drastically different from making that same contact with a metallic object.
I've seen wrenches,etc.. completely vaporized.. yet have no problem grabbing energized bus bars with my hand.

Above SELV voltages shock danger increases drastically.
Moisture also reduces the resistance.. (think 9V battery and touching your tongue to it vs putting a dry finger across the contacts)

[beolson25]

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

While yes it is the current that kills BUT
in this situation the danger is the increased voltage level being able to overcome the resistance of human skin and allow the shock to transfer around the human body..

I work in an industry where physical contact with 48V bus bars carrying high current (thousands of amps) happens all the time with no real danger.
Making contact with your hand is drastically different from making that same contact with a metallic object.
I've seen wrenches,etc.. completely vaporized.. yet have no problem grabbing energized bus bars with my hand.

Above SELV voltages shock danger increases drastically.
Moisture also reduces the resistance.. (think 9V battery and touching your tongue to it vs putting a dry finger across the contacts)

I really want there to be a like button so I don't have to submit an actual reply ... So ...

"LIKE"

[perkint]

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

While yes it is the current that kills BUT
in this situation the danger is the increased voltage level being able to overcome the resistance of human skin and allow the shock to transfer around the human body..

I work in an industry where physical contact with 48V bus bars carrying high current (thousands of amps) happens all the time with no real danger.
Making contact with your hand is drastically different from making that same contact with a metallic object.
I've seen wrenches,etc.. completely vaporized.. yet have no problem grabbing energized bus bars with my hand.

Above SELV voltages shock danger increases drastically.
Moisture also reduces the resistance.. (think 9V battery and touching your tongue to it vs putting a dry finger across the contacts)

And, in the sort of enviroment people are usually playing in here, you can increase that further as it isn't just likely to be a wet part of the body, it's likely to be wet with very conductive water (you know, the stuff your tank is full of)!!!

Tim

[zachts]

Originally Posted by ghellin

48v DC is safe to work with. Some drivers that are used to run strings usually larger than 14 3 watt LEDs in series are getting into a dangerous high DC voltage area. But in hindsight I think I actually was thinking of the Maxwellen drivers not the inventronics. So my apologies.

But to your point I completely agree why not Mean well due to price and known quality.

Meanwell makes plenty of those. I use a 100v version in my shop light builds. Properly and safely implemented they are fine. for use over a tank in a DIY, HELL NO! Higher output than ~54v (eln) is intended for commercial use only.